Advice for a possible Dreamkiller?

[Kodiak Marmoset]

@Benitot:

Thanks for the offer, but the Batrachos Greaves dropped during my first run-through in normal mode, so their stats are terribly low. They're more of a curiosity item unfortunately, rather than something useful.

@Tyr:

"Traps are pretty much all or nothing for early-mid game."

That's what I had figured. A Trapper is on my list of characters to try now.

I read your guide for a pure Nature character by-the-by, and it looks very promising! I'll have to give it a go sometime.

@Irma2:

Did I say something about being willing to "chug along normal"? Well, I got my wish, heh. My Harbinger is a mighty level 15 so far, and just before I logged out a Fell Blade dropped. Polyphemus gave me a nice MI Cyclops Club, so things are looking up on the dual wielding front. I've seen others recommend one slow club paired with one fast weapon for best results, and it seems to be working well enough.

I've never messed around much with socketing items (to be honest, Hades and his damned vitality damage is what finally forced me to stop hoarding charms on my Bone Charmer) and it's shocking how much it costs to remove charms from items! I've had to make some tough decisions on whether or not a Boar's Hide charm is worth 70k gold at this stage. (It's not).

Playing a melee character is really giving me a sense of just how many monster exist purely to slow a character's movement and attack speed. It's absolutely infuriating, but so very satisfying when I finally get to wallop them into orbit. I don't think that'll ever get old!

Here's the build I'm using; I'm following the advice I've seen that recommends rushing to max out Temporal Flux as soon as possible, while trying to get Battle Standard as well. I now see exactly what you meant about feeling starved for skill points!

Heading towards the Gorgons now things are beginning to get rough; enough so that I'm thinking about dropping a few points from Lucid Dream to get Sands of Sleep to help CC archer groups. It may be a bad idea, but at the moment I'm spamming my lesser healing potions as soon as the cooldown is over, and the slower killing speed may be balanced out by a less stressful playing experience. But then again, Phantom Strike is calling to me....argh, too many good choices is almost as bad as too few!

While I kill fairly quickly, it's all one monster at a time, so I really feel like I'm wading against the current. I know things will change with more levels, but I think it's a combination of my being spoiled by the mighty marksmanship tree, and my Harbinger being poorly built at the moment.

Only two deaths so far (damn you, Cinderbone, and your deceptively strong fire aura!) and a 3:2 Strength: Dexterity attribute ratio has kept me well supplied with top-tier armor.

All-in-all, I'm having a great deal of fun with my baby Harbinger. Thanks again for all of your help!

[Shalie]

Sands of Sleep might not be the best choice at low levels, it needs to be maxed to really make an impact. And do you really need Lucid Dream maxed at this point? I would hold of on +% increases until you have more base damage skills maxed.

In normal difficulty, maxed Psionic Immolation and Temporal Rift will kill everything quick and efficiently, but that might not be the play style you're looking for?

[Irma2]

Yeah, this is the problem with Harb - you want everything at once because it's so good. I wouldn't have maxed out Lucid Dream yet, I'd prefer to go up the Warfare tree and add the synergies to Onslaught. And then I'd want Phantom Strike with maxed Dream Stealer asap as well. And let's not even talk about Battle Standard and the Dual Wield tree. So much to do, so few skill points. The Harb's eternal dilemma.

I would also not have invested in Premonition yet. Harb gets so much OA you won't know what to do with it and DA isn't really key at this point of the game. So that's a skill which I leave for late Epic or even Legendary. I don't think I'd even have maxed Weapon Training yet. One of my first priorities as Warfare is getting up to level 10 and sinking a few points into Battle Standard. Onslaught is probably the only skill which I'd consider maxing before that.

Sands of Sleep is likewise not that essential yet. Archer groups can be nuked with Phantom Strike at this point. However, I would definitely recommend maxing SoS in Act IV. It's a tremendous way to control the Machae archers. Here's a vid demo. Note that you won't get that sort of duration with normal gear. I'm using Ritual jewelry which gives +% Damage to Demons as a bonus. For SoS, "damage" = duration. Hence the ridiculous amount of time that I have to dispatch them at my leisure. But even the bog standard skill, when maxed, will give you more than enough duration to make things a lot easier.

The same Ritual jewelry turns Legendary Dactyls, probably the game's most feared foes, into a doddle.

And talking of Hades....

Note the use of the Nightmare to draw his aggro and avoid the red blob (if he casts it). NM is invaluable for that as well as his Hypnotic Gaze confuse spell.

In this clip I'm just messing around with Gigantes and the NM manfully steps up to take on the Dactyl. He wouldn't have beaten it on his own, of course, but he does a grand job of confusing it and sucking up some of its big hits. There aren't too many pets that can do that and it can save you big-time. And I have just one point in it! Even with just that solitary point, it's almost unkillable in Legendary. Hades does nothing to it.

The last clip also illustrates what I was saying earlier about Dream's skills becoming anaemic in Legendary. At one point, I use PS against the Gigantes mob. I think that was a mistake, heh, I wanted to move to the other side of the mob. But because I have PS on LMB and clicked on the mob rather than the ground beyond them, it activated the skill. Throughout Normal and Epic, you become accustomed to PS instantly dropping any trash mob that you use it on. In this case, it hurts them but doesn't kill them.

Onslaught, however, still does the business, both against the Dactyls and Hades. It takes a while to get it charged against Hades, which is why his first form takes longer to kill. But once it's up and charged, his second and third forms go down before his opening line has left his lips.

It's that combo of Onslaught and Battle Standard that gives Warfare its killing power. It never, at any stage, runs out of steam. Quite the contrary, as you progress through Legendary and find better and better weapons, it seems to gain in power.

Incidentally, this is how a Dreamkiller can turn out, at least in Normal and Epic. Lots and lots of fun stuff to try, and never a dull moment. The play style would be much the same in Legendary, it's just that it would slow down quite a bit.

[Kodiak Marmoset]

@Shalie:

"Sands of Sleep might not be the best choice at low levels, it needs to be maxed to really make an impact. And do you really need Lucid Dream maxed at this point? I would hold of on +% increases until you have more base damage skills maxed."

Roger that, I'll wait to respec until I run into Machae Archers. I was just following a guide, which is a little embarrassing to admit, especially because I've played Diablo 2 for almost a decade, and these things (like flat bonuses being preferable at low-level, but crap at high, and vice-versa) are pretty universal in the genre. I'll just claim a "senior moment" there.

I've rejiggered my skill point allocation, and things are running much more smoothly. I think it's time I abandon guides and strike out on my own.

The "tricksy" fun toys that Dream gets to play with is exactly the playstyle I was hoping for, but I'm truly being starved by too many good choices. With my low level, I've been forced to choose, and am currently running Onslaught with Phantom Strike while inching my way up the trees.

Thank you for the good advice!

@Irma2:

I was slavishly following a guide, so I have no one to blame but myself. While allocating points I knew that percentage bonuses were bad at low levels (30% of 75 DPS is nothing to write home about), but was a fool not to trust my gut. It's high time I avoided guides, other than to learn which skills are bugged.

I've reallocated skill points, and now my Battle Standard and Phantom Strike are clearing whole mobs like they're getting paid to do so. Dream is FUN!

I know that I'm spread too thinly, but I'm currently clearing the Minoan Labyrinth in search of Stonebinder's Cuffs. That, plus a Mastery Shrine should make my one-point Trance and Nightmare worth slowing my progression a little. Come Act IV, I'll respec right away to a maxed-out Sands of Sleep. I was always leery of doing that, but I've just found out that the Mystic does
have a cap on how much gold he charges per point, so I'm feeling free to respec until the cows come home.

Which do you reckon would be a better run for the Stonebinder's Cuffs, the Gorgons and the Pythian Cave, or the Minoan Labyrinth? It doesn't matter terribly much I suppose, I'll just stick to the Labyrinth, there seems to be more Geomancers and Profaners in there. By-the-by, doesn't it seem odd that the Geomancers are the poison users, and the Profaners love fire? You'd think that that would have been caught in playtesting.

Having spent a few minutes watching your videos, I can't wait to get back to playing! I see what you mean now about Dream's Legendary anemia; Phantom Strike barely tickled that Dactyl. Ouch.

That Dreamkiller video of yours is EXACTLY the kind of gameplay that I was hoping for. Shame that it loses it's "oomph", but I'm going to make one eventually. It looks like good fun, at least at the lower difficulties.

Thanks again!

[Irma2]

For melee, I'd do MinoLab rather than Pythian. If you're not running the X mods, only three Queens renders Pythian less appealing. And if you are running the X mods, trying to cope with three healers and three stun-dealers in melee range is hazardous. MinoLab also gets the advantage of two Geos and Profaners per mob, Pythian mobs are hard-capped at one.

BTW, a Mastery shrine will affect NM's level until it dies or is re-cast, but not your Trance level. It'll sustain at +4 as long as the shrine lasts. But the moment the shrine expires, the Trance will revert back to its unbuffed level.

I think the beauty about Harb is that you're covered all the way. The Dream skills alone make Normal and much of Epic quite easy. When they start waning, the Warfare skills step up to the plate. So you almost always have an answer for whatever the game can throw at you.

[Tyr]

Drat. I was gonna say PS death from rally but got ninja'd.