Engine: TQ better than D3?

[Saradona]

Forgive me D3 fans, but I'll have to say this:

Yesterday I started to play D3 and my first impression was: Wow! This is like Titan Quest! Of course, when I started to play TQ my first impression was: Wow! This is like an IMPROVED D2. It happens that D3, visually saying, is exactly the same as TQ, although TQ was launched (I don't know), maybe 6 years ago? Yes, I expected much more from D3. I wish I have said: "Wow! This is an IMPROVED TQ".

At first glance, I felt like playing Titan Quest. But after a few hours of playing, I was disappointed. Where are the flying enemies after a strong hit? Not to mention, that those that were strongly hit, simply moved away from me like a MS-DOS chess piece. On the ground, strange deformed red skeletons lie supposed to be human skeletons. WTH? Where is the dynamic zoom? D3 only gives me 2 options, far away and very close. And if I put the second option, the trees from the scenario don't let me see anything. Transparency, please?

I don't know, maybe I am wrong and I will change my mind in the future. But does anyone have the same impression and want to share?

Cheers from Brazil

[Medea Fleecestealer]

www.grimdawn.com

Lots of screenshots and some videos to watch. And it is the improved TQ! Plus no online play only nonsense.

[x-president]

I'm enjoying D3 much more then TQ. To be fair I didn't play TQ as much, but TQ just got boring and repetition for me quickly. In D3 it doesn't matter what difficulty, I can play and enjoy the game. A lot of times in TQ I just wanted it to be over with. A lot of the areas just seem to drag on and on. Also whenever I get a wall of text when interacting with characters, it just makes me wanna skip everything.

For me I do like character building and I enjoyed point distribution and still do. But in the end if you think about it. You always created a build so in the end it can fight the way you want it to. You still get all of that in D3 except you skip all of the unnecessary time in getting the build where you want it. With D3 you can adjust and change things whenever you want, however you want. You can still tweak and adjust character stats through gear so that is not totally lost.

After probably 130+ hours of D3, I'm still enjoying the game probably as much as when I first started playing it. For me in the end, a game has to be fun. D3 gives me that where TQ never really did. Also graphics really don't matter that much to me. Personally I think D3 looks 10x better then TQ, but if the game is fun I'll keep playing it.

Take arcade games for example. I love Robotron and will always play it and it has very old, basic graphics. Good looking graphics is nice and does help to a certain point, but if the game isn't fun it just doesn't matter.


Personally I wish D3 and TQ both were more story driven and had more decision making. I think that's when character creation is really needed. Take Dragon Age: Origins for example, it's just an awesome story driven game and you can create characters and really effect the story of the game through the decisions you make. D3 and TQ are more point and click games with a story that will never change. So I would prefer to have characters that I can change when I want without being penalized or having to start over from scratch.

[Violos]

whenever I get a wall of text when interacting with characters, it just makes me wanna skip everything

Curious. That is exactly what I liked about TQ, that you could actually "explore" what they had to say as well. And all in voice, not like Drakensang's one-liners or something.
It is not what kept me going, of course - that was the myriad of possible builds and things to find out.

Dragon Age, OTOH, is the only story-driven game I did not even finish once because I was just bored. And I loved Mass Effect.
Not saying one thing is better... but always interesting to see how different player tastes are.

[Fozzie]

I don't think a hack and slay needs much of a story to begin with. They are supposed to be played over and over again, expansive story you can't skip and decisions only get in the way, then.
It's not the Witcher games or something.

Dragon Age was story-driven, but I couldn't play it for more than a few hours. Not only was the gameplay part really disappointing, but the plot was so convoluted and illogical right from the beginning it was simply too aggravating for me to keep going. And Mass Effect really isn't much of a "game" at all. It rather started it's own genre of "rail talkers" - dialogues and cutscenes occasionally interrupted by mediocre cover shooter sequences - meh...

So in general, I prefer gameplay over story and presentation at any time. As far as graphics are concerned, Diablo 3 does a lot of things right for my taste: the art design as far as I can tell from what I've seen thus far seems coherent and there's no struggling with a free camera (I HATE that...). It's the kind of graphics which normally "age well", as is the case with TQ. It's both kept simple but good looking and that will last. The games that got criticized on release because of their "not too spectacular" graphics are mostly those you can still look at today, while a lot of the titles with "groundbreaking visual technology" tend to appear laughably ugly when revisited a couple of years later.
Nevertheless, D3 is not a game for me, I'll rather wait for Torchlight 2 and Grim Dawn.

[Tyr]

The starting sequence is almost exactly like Titan Quest's, and I was extremely disappointed with the story. It's basically all flair, no logic/coherence. Tyrael is a complete tool in D3. Cain has gone senile, the leading lady is like Tyrael except whinier, and none of the NPCs are anywhere near as interesting as the ones in D2 (and the ones in D2 were only barely intriguing).

TQ, on the other hand, took great care in trying to assimilate ancient myths/legends into the actual game. Unfortunately you'll need to have some background in ancient mythology to see just how meticulous the developers were.

Anyway it's true that D3's one saving grace is the skill system (the auction system is a mixed blessing imo). You could say that it's similar to TQ's, except much more dynamic. Almost chaotic, in fact, and which is why trying to make sense out of it (by coming up with a working build) is the perfect challenge. Unfortunately it seems that despite the fact that they've been working for 10 years on the thing the developers overstepped themselves by assuming that players would be forced to play in teams, considering that it's an online game. Or that the people in teams would actually have the common sense to work together. It's almost like someone appointed a few WoW veterans into the team, and the problem is that WoW gameplay, although second nature to the typical WoW player, is completely alien to every other gamer. I truly think they did not expect that a large chunk of the player base would only play the game solo, and that these people would have the most aggressive representation especially on the official forums. Considering that the game is only barely (or perhaps, even not) balanced for solo play, this has led to some very interesting developments. It will probably not surprise TQ players that atm, the strongest class (and thus the only class worth playing, ala hardcore WoW gamer mentality) also happens to be one that's best at kiting things.

[Laurrrr]

Is my mind playing tricks or this user is Tyr?

[x-president]

Dragon Age: Origin didn't impress me all that much when I first played it, but when I came back to it months later and really started to get deeper into player builds and story decisions, it became a very enjoyable game. The longer I played it the better the game seem to get. I have yet to play a game anywhere near it's decision making. Just being able to kill your own companion and let entire towns be slaughtered let there be so many options.

Also I though the combat was good. I have never played any game with such an in depth control of friendly npc characters you can travel with and control. ME series wasn't bad.

But it's hard for to get into any story playing games. I don't know what it is, but I just can't get into them. So having to read text makes it even worse. I think I enjoy stories more when I have direct influence on what will happen.


Anyways back on topic, another reason why I like D3 is the random generation of maps and enemies. I think that is another very cool feature. I mean you will see similar map sections at times but the overall layout can be different almost every time you play. Plus getting different elite and champion enemies is just cool and they can have some cool and unique mixes of abilities.

Imo that type of randomness gives the game more re-play value.

[Tyr]

Yeah I know you from the Bioware forums. D3's map randomization is indeed more complex, and even the sidequests are randomized. This adds to the game's re-playability. The elite/champion bonuses are not so great though, since it does not cover all combat styles (it basically shuts down close/mid ranged classes but doesn't affect long range classes as much, which is another reason why the ability to kite properly is such a huge plus in solo). IMO the elite/champion bonuses should include ones that counter all playstyles, though for balance reasons not more than 2 or 3 can appear on the same elite/champion at once. Everything has to be kill-able.
D3's tanking classes have several skills that grant them temporary invulnerability and the ability to affect monster placement, so they should be fine as long as they know how to do their thing.

While TQ lacks any of these, if a game could implement the same level of randomness while keeping TQ's unique "play-right, do-well" attribute then it would be a whole new level of awesome. TQ, despite the fact that some skills are broken without the fanpatch, is much more balanced that D3 currently is imo. All classes in TQ have their particular strengths and weaknesses, and all can excel long-term. D3 atm is much more chaotic. While multiplayer is much more balanced, based on the experience of me and my group not a lot of D3 players work well with others.

Is my mind playing tricks or this user is Tyr?

Yeah it's me. These boards do have a good community.

[x-president]

Telelporting, Vortex, and Jailers are more anti-ranged. Even Frozen to a certain point. But yea anyone who can stay far enough away should be ok regardless. Still I find that a boring way to play.

Of course some class like Demon Hunter and Monk can avoid those types of attack through abilities. I pretty much play multiplayer only. I find solo a little too easy and the companions just aren't worth the effort. That is one problem with D3 for me. Companions are pretty much useless.

I have always enjoyed the team dynamics with these types of games.