Ask me about Battlemages! OR General BM Discussion

[naxcilliac]

How good are Battlemages without Sapros, Batrachos Greaves and other twinked gear? I don't twink so I can't depend on getting these items, even though I have them Vaulted.

My Harbinger never found Sapros and went through the whole of Legendary without dying (he died a few times in Normal and Epic but never in Legendary), with his DA at <900. That, to me, is indicative of a strong class.

Atm my Battlemage has just started Act IV Epic and hasn't died yet. I'm happy with his damage output and survivability although I have used a high-level Core Dweller and Ancestors to get me this far. Being able to beat up on Epic Typhon while he tried in vain to hurt my CD was a real luxury. I took 0 HP damage in that fight and it only lasted a few seconds. Pretty much the same deal with the Epic Manticore which, for a petless toon, is one of the hardest monsters in the game imo.

I could twink Sapros and Legendary Batrachos Greaves to him, along with a bunch of good +% CtAP gear, but I like seeing how far I can get with what I can find. That is a good test of a toon's potential.

That said, I think Warfare is powerful enough on its own to handle whatever the game can throw at it. The second mastery, at worst, just adds useful utility skills. At best (Harbinger, Spellbreaker, Conqueror, Slayer) it puts the toon into a whole new league.

well, in all builds there is an ideal item build you want to get. i am not requiring anything, i am merely mentioning what battlemages should be shooting for. i don't believe it's steep at all. like i said, battlemage was my first character. the only way it got twinked was because i played it.

when i say twinked out, i just mean i've found all the items i've wanted so far on THIS character. its purely possible, BM was both asylum and i's first step into titan quest. sapros just synergizes with every single thing a battlemage stands for, other than defense. ideally you can achieve similar results by stacking, as asylum said, monkey king relics and other things that reduce resistances. its a shame betrayer is out of the question because it used to be an excellent addition to any battlemage's arsenal.

I can't help but notice that, in accordance to what I said above, everything but Eruption in both of naxcilliac's post applies to any Warfare char. And other masteries also have spells that benefit even more from Sapros.

My point here is not to discourage anyone who just wants to be a Battlemage.
It's simply that so far, every other class is still doing better.

actually i don't believe that's true at all. earth combines huge amounts of stun, physical damage, resistance and elemental damage in a way that synergizes with warfare. essentially, warfare allows you to tap into the potential of Earth due to its innately good stats, it's defensive additions, and it's stun to allow a warfare character to do things that so far, on other characters (other than conquerer) i have been unsuccessful in doing.

just because earth gives warfare perhaps some bread and butter ability in dealing with the game, does not mean its just like everything else. the amount of defense, the health/dex from earth stats, and the ability to do large amounts of aoe damage and lots of aoe stun makes this character BREEZE through legendary like no other character i have played thus far.

in all honesty, debating Battlemage's viability against other classes is not what this thread is about. but battlemage is definitely not just "Warfare++", it's its own breathing class that involves a very tough and tanky warfare build with added stun utility and aoe damage effects. it's just you need to concentrate on the melee aspect to get the most out of warfare, not really anything more or less having to do with making a stock warfare class.

i hope i've cleared that up.

[Violos]

But Earth gives intelligence, not strength. You're actually missing out on the strength another mastery would give.
Stoneform is nice, but as a fighter who needs to move in order to do damage (except for the weak Eruption), all you can do while being "tanky" is gulp a pot. And the stun is nice too, for other classes, but like mentioned above Warhorn with some -recharge can do the same more reliably.

If you say this is just for BM fans and not considering any cost of opportunity that's cool.
I'm still not convinced that it is really those "synergies" which make your char play easier, unless something in there simply fits your personal playstyle much better. But I'm going to shut up about it.

[naxcilliac]

But Earth gives intelligence, not strength. You're actually missing out on the strength another mastery would give.
Stoneform is nice, but as a fighter who needs to move in order to do damage (except for the weak Eruption), all you can do while being "tanky" is gulp a pot. And the stun is nice too, for other classes, but like mentioned above Warhorn with some -recharge can do the same more reliably.

If you say this is just for BM fans and not considering any cost of opportunity that's cool.
I'm still not convinced that it is really those "synergies" which make your char play easier, unless something in there simply fits your personal playstyle much better. But I'm going to shut up about it.

Strength from masteries isn't really a big deal when you have all kinds of rings and equips that give %boosts. so that's not a very good arguement. the intelligence is actually nice because it boosts damage, and reduce resistance mods will work nicely with all your fire damage abilities.

eruption does alot of damage even with a minor investment into intelligence, ESPECIALLY with battle standard (triumph). I don't know how exactly you get low damage from it

[Violos]

Strength from masteries isn't really a big deal when you have all kinds of rings and equips that give %boosts. so that's not a very good arguement.

...
It was yours.

[naxcilliac]

...
It was yours.

i never said it was a big deal, but yeah my mistake. however that is a bit nitpicky especially when mastery stats are not a big deal in the first place. it just adds synergy. i have found that battlemages are more apt to take on xmax mods than other warfare classes i've played (such as harbinger) due to the very good amount of aoe stuns, aoe damage, and tankiness.

and you do not need stoneform. heatshield, the health bonuses from earth tree, and the stat increases from earth enchantment all help to aid a lot in survivability, moreso than the other classes (other than conquerer or nature, but conquerer cannot fully synergize with warfare due to using shields). i fixed my post. the intelligence helps slightly to even out some damage through elemental damage while dex (and you should be building dex as a stat since you want to get hale rings) will help even out your OA and DA.

you can also have the tankiest pet in the game to help you through the tough parts if you so choose. all of these factors combine into a class that is so far one of the best solo classes in the game. out of everything i have played, i have found battlemage the most refreshing and one of the strongest combinations i have used through xmax mods and even achilles. volatile crits give a huge advantage in your elemental damage and are not rare at all, allowing even minor amounts of int be able to utilize earth enchantment, volcanic orb, and eruption to a great potential. even so, i did boost my intelligence along with my dex. I got most of my strength through hale modifiers.

going through the normal game at an unchallenging difficulty may be an arguement against earth, but honestly you can get to breezing through legendary as much as you can with any other class. the strengths of battlemage really show when you start challenging yourself, and then you realize how strong it is to be able to chain stun while dealing a great amount of aoe damage and being able to take some hits before going down.

before knocking it with theorycrafting, try doing a challenging mod with battlemage, such as xmax or achilles to see how powerful it can be. just use defiler to change your class if you already have a warfare/X and items to go with it, just as a test. and if you have problems, i can help you out with builds.

[Violos]

Ah, I see now.
If you use xMax, of course things are different. Because that is challenging only in places, and to some classes. Rather, it is a mod that caters greatly to everything AoE, making it great where otherwise it would be mediocre. And lets you level way faster than usual, therefore giving you the spare skillpoints to put into those skills.

Because even if you don't like theory, you can't deny that a char with ~162 int does exactly half the fire damage that one with 975 int would do - everything else being equal.
However everything else is of course not equal if you are a fighter with those str and phys boosts on your equips instead of int and fire. And you wouldn't have the points to max Eruption, VO and two support skills any time soon if you want to dual wield. That's why I just know Eruption is comparably weak, as Asylum showed too. Even with the physical bits added in.
Have you ever tried an AoE mage in comparison?

Because I have done my share of testing and challening, thank you. That is one more reason why I would put my money on that Harbinger with his TR and Sleep any day (even if you declared that not to be the topic). Because he can have Heatshield too, and also the health that any mastery gives. Migtating 30 damage per hit and some fire res for 8 skillpoints in Stoneskin hardly beats that.

Anyhow. Seeing how this is turning into an argument on belief, I'll leave it to others.

[naxcilliac]

eruption, doing physical damage, does alot more damage than you think. i do not see eruption doing low damage even without maxing it. wherever i was in difficulty or level, putting points in eruption always helped to clear screens. if i can't convince you of this then i can't convince you that BM is a good choice; but this is simply a matter of playing.

and asylum pointed out how POWERFUL eruption can be, while neglecting to even calculate the increased physical damage and damage +%'s. so he was mistaken; eruption is actually alot MORE powerful than he calculated.

[ASYLUM101]

so he was mistaken; eruption is actually alot MORE powerful than he calculated.

Not mistaken, I just didn't bother trying to calculate how much the eruption did with all the relative %'s included.

[Phantasy_snot]

my battlemage was my first to get to epic but had like 200 deaths. So where is this "tanking" abilities you talk about

[ASYLUM101]

Battlemages have trouble with late normal. If you don't rush to coredweller or max warfare dualwield/onslaught, it becomes pretty tough.