Ask me about Battlemages! OR General BM Discussion

[ASYLUM101]

BTW +%physical damage bonuses improve Eruption, which is 50% physical. I was able to get around 25% more damage from Eruption after I cast it with maxed Onslaught (you can try this on the dummies near the mage merchant in Sparta).

Come to think of it VO/Fragmentation do a lot of physical damage, and Warfare does have a -resistance debuff in the form of triumph. Meh, never tested it tho.

Interesting theory... I should test that out. IF the +%physical damage benefits eruption/VO, battlemage is the PERFECT class synergy really. I'll be back tomorrow with some answers!

[naxcilliac]

wow! my topic exploded! I figured this was a necessary topic, but thank you asylum as you build similarly to me.

as asylum mentioned, the two most critical things to get on a melee battlemage are 1) Warhorn (+doomhorn) and 2) battle standard (+synergy with the fanpatch!!!!)

here is the reason: although VO is a good stun, warhorn is a much more reliable aoe stun that reduces armor. Battle standard will allow an already beefy battlemage (i take much health items to get to around 6.7k health) to NEVER DIE!!! you can LITERALLY take on as many hades's (with enough stun resist that is) as you want, and you will never die so long as you have enough % attack to health stat, attackspeed, and damage to continually heal yourself indefinitely.

MANY battlemages choose to take eruption as well. Regardless of your int, eruption does AMAZING damage and can make the difference between an act 4 level full of corpses, or you being bumrushed and having to wade back to your corpse. GET IT!

Also, whatever you do, GET A SAPROS. this item is an absolute GODSEND for a battlemage. not only does it reduce ARMOR (which affects your warfare mastery) but it ALSO reduces resistance (which is your earth/fire damage!) Sapros equipped may not show very impressive DPS numbers, but trust me I can down hades in SECONDS, multiple ones. Sapros is the absolute BEST item to have a battlemage equipped with, whether you're hybrid caster melee or just melee because it synergizes with every single point of damage you are doing.

I also remember reading somewhere here that the sapros res/armor reduction actually does more than it leads you to believe. As I recall, it actually reduces by a percentage? Someone correct me on this. Even if it didn't, its still a massively important item on my build, possibly the only single item i would classify as "DONT EVER CHANGE IT OUT FOR ANYTHING!"

for your second hand, use the best folg available. right now i have merely a folg of reckless power with an anubis relic in (% damage goes to health and a +35% attackspeed bonus, took me a LONG TIME TO GET THIS, but its well worth it when you're healing every point of health anything takes from you right back)

the most IMPORTANT stats for a battlemage are as follows:
1) %damage goes to health (THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!! YOU NEED SOME OF IT SOMEWHERE. life leech doesn't cut it in legendary as much as this does!)
2) attackspeed and damage/Total Damage% (the idea is, the more of this you have, the more useful #1 is)
3) health% (you want more than 6000 health so you can tank hits)
4) DA (antrachos or whatever they are called greaves are ideal, but make sure you have atleast around 1600+ before you think about doing 3x Hades and final act 4 stuff...don't neglect points in dex!)
5) strength (both base and %, likely with the equips that I am recommending, you should be at atleast 700 str. good amount)
6) Resistances (IT IS IMPORTANT when you get to end Epic and Legendary that you have positive resists! Do NOT enter into the next difficulty until you have atleast positive resists or you WILL get your ass handed to you!)

Ideally, you want about 60-80 in each resist. of the secondary resists, the only two which are extremely important are Stun and Skill Disruption. You can't use all those fancy stuns and hit monsters back for health if you're stunned / your skills keep getting knocked unusable. the others, vitality and energy drain, while nice to have, are only problematic from a very VERY small percentage of monsters in the game, of which you can easily take down quickly before they become a problem.

======================

I'd like to thank you guys for the support for the thread! I will write a guide on battlemages when I can since its so requested. If you have any other questions about strategies or equipment recommendations, keep posting. I will get to it whenever possible (and I'm sure Asylum will graciously help out too, thanks man!)

have fun!

[naxcilliac]

Another post from awhile back that has helpful information for BM's:

Re: help on battlemage build..

i've got a level 61 BM that i've honestly never had trouble surviving with. a good thing to keep in mind with any game like this is to keep your resists up. this means sacrificing some of those ubers for some lesser items. i was in neither epic nor legendary very long without having positive resists. look for elemental resists and piercing is the big ones. damage resistance isn't as necessary since you'll have access to higher armor counts, but its generally easily found alongside the others anyways.

- horde that % attack to health like no other. BM's have easy access to dps so you should exploit this. your dps should be hitting quick enough to even go through undead hordes without being scathed too much.

- if you have enough % attack to health (and the fanpatch) a battle standard is basically godmode for fighting bosses with. so long as typhon doesn't use thorns i can sit around attacking him and dodging meteors without being harmed pretty much at all by his other attacks. make sure you have a decent investment in str and dex, but also don't forget to toss some points into int to help with extra fire damage.

i ALWAYS have a weapon switch with a shield. I got a particularly good drop of persephone's caress which gives a whopping 50 hp regen. anytime im getting low i instantly switch to it and use a potion. generally speaking i dont need to do this unless im fighting undead. the shield should give a modest boost in defenses (especially if you get a nice one with plenty of da, health, pierce, resists, and avoid melee/proj) and my weapon just happens to help with other equips increasing hp regen to give me a bit of leeway when getting a large chunk of health back.

if you're hurting bad on defenses, one item in particular will help a massive amount and that is kael's visage. i don't use it now, but i used to and it was a godsend of defenses that actually allowed my hp bar to hardly budge when i was using it. i've since traded up to ares war helm for now because i like the increased killing speed and i've found, though riskier, i don't really die at all to require it.

i got a particularly lucky ring drop, a hale ring of immortality that consists of 20% str, 9% health, +502 health which i pretty much instantly put an ankh of isis on to add another whopping 615 health to it. my health ring helps alot in increasing the efficiency of the original potion "heal" since it heals a % (and since monsters dont often deal damage to you based on your health, EXPLOIT IT!).

my BM has around 6,700 hp (up to 7,800 hp depending on what alternate equips i use), ~4200 dps (pre onslaught), 80% elemental resists, 56% piercing resist, 88% stun resist (extremely important to have high stun resist), has around 2700ish armor, and roughly 1400 DA/1000 OA. i also got particularly lucky with a sapros drop and i use a legendary anubis'ed (+35% aspd completion) folg of reckless power. as an amulet i use Harmonia, a legendary amulet that gives me +18% attack to health along with other goodies. so both my weapons have the attack to health along with a flat bonus from my amulet. even in hairy situations of aspd slow, i can still do enough damage to heal myself from attacks very quickly, and i have enough hp to have an excellent secondary heal from potions. i know my OA is a little on the low side, im in the process of increasing it now.

my skillset is pretty BM standard only without the addition of CD. i have volcanic orb as a secondary aoe stun but i never need it on top of my folg and war horn stuns, but it simply adds to the idea that even in the worst situations i can keep enemies stunned long enough to turn the tides fairly easily.

[Irma2]

How good are Battlemages without Sapros, Batrachos Greaves and other twinked gear? I don't twink so I can't depend on getting these items, even though I have them Vaulted.

My Harbinger never found Sapros and went through the whole of Legendary without dying (he died a few times in Normal and Epic but never in Legendary), with his DA at <900. That, to me, is indicative of a strong class.

Atm my Battlemage has just started Act IV Epic and hasn't died yet. I'm happy with his damage output and survivability although I have used a high-level Core Dweller and Ancestors to get me this far. Being able to beat up on Epic Typhon while he tried in vain to hurt my CD was a real luxury. I took 0 HP damage in that fight and it only lasted a few seconds. Pretty much the same deal with the Epic Manticore which, for a petless toon, is one of the hardest monsters in the game imo.

I could twink Sapros and Legendary Batrachos Greaves to him, along with a bunch of good +% CtAP gear, but I like seeing how far I can get with what I can find. That is a good test of a toon's potential.

That said, I think Warfare is powerful enough on its own to handle whatever the game can throw at it. The second mastery, at worst, just adds useful utility skills. At best (Harbinger, Spellbreaker, Conqueror, Slayer) it puts the toon into a whole new league.

[CrocMagnum]

[url]....For bosses, same thing really. Always start with VO. That stun gives you an advantage over trash mobs and heroes, bosses it has no effect obviously. After the VO, you wanna get real close to start smashing them, use warwind, drop a battle standard, doomhorn, then an eruption and start whacking them. Doomhorn is great at the start of a boss fight if you debuff. Believe what you want, it works wonders against bosses. -25% HP at max level? hell yea!...

So Triumph + Doom Horn + Shen Dong + Sapros = kickass

But you need: some - recharge / the fanpatch (for "Triumph" & "War Horn" to work) / a Sapros

I agree with Irma2 about Sapros. That's a pretty steep requirement for an untwinked toon. It took me a hell of time to get my first one. So after all those years here is my question:

"Is there any purple / blue / green weapon remotly similar to a Sapros?" (That thing is bugging me for quite some time now).

[Violos]

I can't help but notice that, in accordance to what I said above, everything but Eruption in both of naxcilliac's post applies to any Warfare char. And other masteries also have spells that benefit even more from Sapros.

My point here is not to discourage anyone who just wants to be a Battlemage.
It's simply that so far, every other class is still doing better.

I guess Thane doesn't have a physical damage bonus, but Squall and Thunderball can be used defensively. Not sure how great the Storm Nimbus tree would be without a staff or large INT investment.

Juggernaut seems like it would be great - I've heard it said that the Defense tree offers more damage output than Warfare but I'm not sure I believe it. Would this be a stronger or weaker choice?

Avenger at least can reduce resistances, and use a bow to stay long range. Maye just as viable but a different play style?

True, the Thane does not get 20% physical bonus for 8 skillpoints - which isn't that great a deal anyway. In turn he gets Squall, which is like a lesser Sapros AOE and blinds archers. He gets Spellshock, which is devastating on any mana using boss that got his resistances reduced (by being hit with... guess what). And he stuns and slows things that hit him.
Far better additions, also as a strength-based warrior.

"Great" is a bit far-fetched for a melee Juggy because he, too, doesn't get a lot from Earth compared to other options. But since he doesn't have a Warhorn, he can make good use of the VO stun which is rather redundant on a BM. And the damage is not far behind, so that combo is slightly more beneficial.

And the Avenger is very interesting due to his abilities to group enemies (as a bowie) and reduce fire resistance (as a mage). But those are indeed different playstyles.



@Asylum

IF the +%physical damage benefits eruption/VO, battlemage is the PERFECT class synergy really.

It sure does, as all +% are global. But without a stat factoring in, you are still missing a factor of about 3 in late game, just like with bleeding an poison. And there are less items giving loads of +%physical than +%poison.



P.S.:

"Is there any purple / blue / green weapon remotly similar to a Sapros?"

There's a bracelet called "the Frail" which is like the Archmage Clasp's little brother. And there is a spear that does about -20 to all, though that is about the same as the best Sheng relic.
P.P.S.: And Korybantes shield. They're in my dream guide.

[CrocMagnum]

...There's a bracelet called "the Frail" which is like the Archmage Clasp's little brother. And there is a spear that does about -20 to all, though that is about the same as the best Sheng relic.
P.P.S.: And Korybantes shield. They're in my dream guide.

Right! Right! Those are in my book, though the Korybantes Shield escaped to my notice I must admit ,

- I'm still looking for a Sapros-Like "Weapon". Except for the lovely Lycaion Malleus for a Thane I'm still clueless,

- I'm not going to run around with a "Frail" (low armor) late game, even if that thing kills,

- Archemage Clasp is great but a 6% chance for Reduce Resistance isn't like a Sapros, a Lykaion Malleus or a Frail (100%),

EDIT: @ Asylum: sorry for the - recharge, you're right. But needing a "Sapros + Batrachos Greaves" to get a great BattleMage is quite an undertaking. (Not untwinked then).

[ASYLUM101]

But you need: some - recharge / the fanpatch (for "Triumph" & "War Horn" to work) / a Sapros

What? You don't need - recharge... it works fine without, just spam your spells when possible.

I agree with Irma2 about Sapros. That's a pretty steep requirement for an untwinked toon. It took me a hell of time to get my first one. So after all those years here is my question:

It is a steep requirement for an untwinked, but it's necessary on almost every melee build to become "optimal". I lucked out and found sapros after about 400 farming runs from SP... wait, luck? maybe not luck, but yeah, i did find it with this character (she was my first char to legendary)

"Is there any purple / blue / green weapon remotly similar to a Sapros?" (That thing is bugging me for quite some time now).

Like Vio said, there's a few items, and you can also grab an awesome green and tack on a Shen Dong. 2 Shen Dongs and 3 monkey kings can add sufficient debuffs. Not Sapros worthy, but enough to utilize a damage bonus. I don't know if it's worth using 2 shen dongs though, might be better to go 1 dong and 1 anubis...

How good are Battlemages without Sapros, Batrachos Greaves and other twinked gear? I don't twink so I can't depend on getting these items, even though I have them Vaulted.

They're a bit tough to play as without the massive DA. Without my greaves I think my DA is around 1200, which is fine really, but not melee immune. The BM's biggest issue is the ranged guys, not the close range guys, so any DA/resist/ctap substitute is fine. (ctap isn't hugely important, but it helps alot to have even a small 20%)

the most IMPORTANT stats for a battlemage are as follows:
1) %damage goes to health (THIS IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!! YOU NEED SOME OF IT SOMEWHERE. life leech doesn't cut it in legendary as much as this does!)
2) attackspeed and damage/Total Damage% (the idea is, the more of this you have, the more useful #1 is)
3) health% (you want more than 6000 health so you can tank hits)
4) DA (antrachos or whatever they are called greaves are ideal, but make sure you have atleast around 1600+ before you think about doing 3x Hades and final act 4 stuff...don't neglect points in dex!)
5) strength (both base and %, likely with the equips that I am recommending, you should be at atleast 700 str. good amount)
6) Resistances (IT IS IMPORTANT when you get to end Epic and Legendary that you have positive resists! Do NOT enter into the next difficulty until you have atleast positive resists or you WILL get your ass handed to you!)

1) true, I have life steal on my sapros and my harrowing knife, it helps a ton.
2) somewhat important. with sapros, hamstring and a cluster of debuff relics (monkey kings) it's not too important. My BM has about 800 DPS without onslaught or her auras. (EE) However, she can topple all 3 forms of Hades in about 15 seconds - DPS is not a real factor, it's the debuffing, the hp redux(from warhorn and weapon), and the spell combos. if you don't have those tools, then yes, it is important.
3)yes! health is extremely important, make sure you have done all your HP related quests, and try to find some hale rings of immortality, those are the game-winners for a BM (who innately has super low HP). Mine only has about 5.5k HP I think, but it's enough.
4) DA, as usual, is important, yes. Batrachos aren't a key component to the build, but they can help you reduce the amount of gear needed to stack up the DA. Dex is important too, you need about 500 (can be with +stat gear, like a monkey king) and fill in the blanks with DA.
5) strength - I think if you have 2 hale rings you're set. having 2 hale rings gives you +50% STR, meaning you can get away with grabbing more dex if you have about 450+ STR. You need 600 STR for the best gear, but you really don't even need that much.
6)oh yes, resists are super important as a BM. can't tell you how many times I made the mistake of fighting those poison frogs on massbosses with negative resists and got owned. this is where SBCs and prowler gear are important for the BM. the massive elemental resist boost is super helpful. another great way for the resists is from star of ishtar and jade emperor's talisman (50% elemental? hell yes!)

Atm my Battlemage has just started Act IV Epic and hasn't died yet. I'm happy with his damage output and survivability although I have used a high-level Core Dweller and Ancestors to get me this far. Being able to beat up on Epic Typhon while he tried in vain to hurt my CD was a real luxury. I took 0 HP damage in that fight and it only lasted a few seconds. Pretty much the same deal with the Epic Manticore which, for a petless toon, is one of the hardest monsters in the game imo.

Yeah, the BM has several paths, and as an expert TQ player, I'm sure you'll do fine without twinking. honestly, it was my first character, so I screwed her up several times before I figured out how to use her. Half the game I used the CD to tank, but when I started farming I dropped him because he can't handle tanking on xmax.

EDIT:

- I'm not going to run around with a "Frail" (low armor) late game, though that thing kills,

LOL

Sapros weapon! Just find a nice, heavy club and stick a shen dong on it.

[ASYLUM101]

lol that works too but i dunno about sticking TWO shen dongs. would give you a hefty debuff, but then you've got slow attack speed and no adcthp

[CrocMagnum]

Yeah! That's why I put my previous post down the drain.

Dual wielding 2 clubs with Shen Dong and forfeiting über Sapros seems a bit off.