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Thread: Make Secondary masteries truly second

  1. #1

    Make Secondary masteries truly second

    I think this could add a lot of variety and also give true meaning to the word secondary. As it stands now, there's no secondary about it. The only difference between the two masteries you have is that you picked one first. For the first play through, it might keep a newbie from spreading himself too thin, but after that, there's actually no real point as to having the choice be left for later. It also confuses any newcomer to the game, like myself before, who thinks that the first choice has a greater effect than actuality.

    So, my suggestion is that the second selection have only a limited amount of skills or perhaps points. Either the primary would gain, say, 2 points per level and continue to do so throughout and the secondary would gain only 1 making the primary truly primary and the secondary only there for support, or another option could be that the last tier or two of the skills chart is unavailable for the secondary mastery.

    In Titan Quest, picking defense then warfare is no different than doing the other way around and that seems silly to me. Make one truly primary and the other secondary or remove the terms and indicate that whichever you pick first only changes the gameplay insomuch that you'll have one alone for a few levels and not the other.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Poinas's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    If they do that I'll have to play the game for about seven years to fully try all possible classes
    75 Harbinger | 70 Conqueror | 70 Conjurer | 70 Diviner | 70 Spellbreaker | 68 Ranger | 65 Elementalist | 65 Evoker | 65 Bone Charmer | 62 Guardian | 61 Brigand | 61 Thane | 61 Templar | 60 Battlemage | 60 Warden | 59 Haruspex | 58 Slayer | 58 Champion | 55 Druid | 52 Paladin | 50 Oracle | +++

    Guide for All Skills Attribute Guide Custom Mastery Guide
    ------

  3. #3
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    That actually sounds interesting
    I would be more for limiting the available points for the second mastery than limiting the number of skills though. Or perhaps simply cut the maximum amount of skillpoints you can spent in a single skill by 25%..

    Another thing that could be done is, though having less of an effect, letting the attributes you get from levelling your mastery itself depend on the first mastery you choose.
    Say, you choose Spirit first, Warfare second.
    Putting points in Warfare Mastery will raise your intelligence instead of strength.
    If you choose Warfare first however, putting points in Spirit Mastery would raise your strength.

    Oh well, I'm quite interested in hearing what others feel about your proposition.

  4. #4

    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    I think it's fine for your mastery picks to be equal in TQ, because you do get them relatively close together. You can pick your second mastery at level 8, and then you have them both to put points into for over 50 levels after that (assuming you don't stop playing at the end of normal.) So really, over the whole process of levelling a character, you get your two masteries pretty much around the same time.
    And, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think it ever feels like a very long gap between the two. Most of the time I don't even take a second mastery straight away at 8 anyway, because I still want to put a few more points into something in the first pick before picking up anything new.

    Having said that, I do like the idea of having the second pick being more of a secondary choice. That's how I tend to play anyway, at least early on. I think it would be interesting as long as it was a bit later that you pick up your secondary mastery, like towards the end of act 1, so it actually felt more like a second choice and to give you plenty of time to get settled into your main mastery.
    And on the subject of limiting points, maybe limit the secondary mastery so that it has to have less points than the primary, say half as many total points for example. Then you wouldn't be taking any of the best skills in the secondary until you'd put quite a few in the primary. In other words, it would be easier to get the higher end skills in your primary mastery, while you'll mostly be using the lower end ones in your secondary pick for most of the game.

    Just my thoughts...

  5. #5

    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    The 2nd mastery is made available too early. You have not become familiar with the 1st and 2 hours later you can decide on the next.

    On the other hand it allows you to balance your game - maybe you realise that your 2nd mastery suits you better. This would help casual gamers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hikari View Post
    I think it would be interesting as long as it was a bit later that you pick up your secondary mastery, like towards the end of act 1, so it actually felt more like a second choice and to give you plenty of time to get settled into your main mastery.
    Or unlock the 2nd mastery, when you replay the game on epic level. You would be required to finish normal mode limited to one mastery. This would also add greatly to the replay value. If you put all epic and legendary skill points into your 2nd mastery, both could be developed equally.

    However, there is still the option to buy back skill points and to redistribute them.

    I'm not so sure if any the above mentioned penalties/limitations will be appreciated. I would miss some options, if I were limited in my choices.

  6. #6
    Priest CrocMagnum's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    Very interesting! Here is an idea in the same vein:

    What I felt was missing in my lovely Titan Quest IT was a sense of achievement for developing both Masteries. I mean the combination of the 2 Masteries led to a new class, but it was just a combination, nothing more.

    I think it would be a good idea to reward the player for developing well both masteries by giving new skills for his final class. This idea is quite different but reminiscent of Munderbunny's mini masteries That is to say "a mod to allow a third mastery to the players". Here is the thread made by yerkyerk:

    http://www.titanquest.net/forums/gri...masteries.html

    For my part I propose this: give the player a "true feel" for his new class by ofering fresh skills exclusive to his newly achieved class. Examples:

    - Paladin: on the model of the D & D world:

    * this toon should have had a "Turn Undead" skill, severely crippling skeletons. [I know Spirit has it already...],

    * a spell / skill granting him protection from Evil. Now It feels like a true Paladin,

    - Illusionist: this guy may be granted a skill turning one of his familiar invisible. Really handy for, say, the Nymph...

    - Templars: history depicted them as champions of "faith" and "friendship". So amulets / rings should have had a better effect on them. And maybe granting them an exclusive aura,

    - Corsair: Seeing that a Corsair is linked to the "pirate world" this character deserved a skill giving him a "chance to get better loot". Actually this idea occurred to ASYLUM 101. He wanted to introduce this skill in his ongoing mod, but sadly it isn't possible with the tools provided. Here is the thread:

    http://www.titanquest.net/forums/mod...l-project.html

    Hmm! Once again sorry for my rambling!

  7. #7
    Olympian God Matseb2611's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    I am sorry but I am not too fond of the idea. I mean, the idea itself sounds pretty neat and all, but it'd be a nightmare having to try out each class twice. I don't think I'd be up for that. It could greatly mislead my opinions about certain skills if I'll be able to only let's say fill them up to half way. Likewise it will mislead my opinions on certain masteries if I won't be able to reach the top two tiers of it.

    And the other thing with that approach, you'll need twice as many class names. You know, a character who picked Warfare first and has Defence as truly secondary mastery won't be same type of Conqueror as the one who picks Defence first and has Warfare as a truly secondary mastery. Whereas in this case the naming won't be too bad, e.g. it can be Offensive Conqueror and Defensive Conqueror or whatnot, but for many other combinations, devs would run out of words.

  8. #8
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    Well, the whole point is to have more choice; which you don't seem to like. That's fine, ofcourse.

    And new names would be cool. That's a good thing, but perhaps a problem for the devs

  9. #9
    Olympian God Matseb2611's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    Well no, I like choice. But you want it to be within reason. What about those people who let's say can't have much time to play the game. I am sure there have been plenty of people on the forums who tried choosing only 4-5 classes and making sure to try each mastery once. Well with this idea, these people won't be able to properly try some of the greatest skills in the game.

    I mean surely if we have only like 4-5 masteries overall, then it's probably a good idea. But if we have 9 masteries, 45 combinations, with this, it'd be 36 x 2 (+9), which is 81 different combinations. I am still struggling to try each TQ class. To have to create 81 characters for this game would not only take ages, but it means I'd have to delete them, because keeping them all makes the game menu really slow.

  10. #10
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Make Secondary masteries truly second

    Well - you don't have to try each class
    And all skills would still be available - but less powerful.

    I've not even tried most of the original classes thoroughly (I think I've played 3 masteries a lot, 3 some, and 3 hardly).

    I'm not sure if I like the idea myself, but I think it offers some interesting options..

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