Elemental Melee Thane

[Violos]

I experimented with the Defiler today, and wanted to share my experience about trying an elemental-based melee fighter.
The idea is not new. I've been sitting on it for quite a while now, tried it on Knife-Throwers, and similar things had been done by others, most notably CookieMonster.

The basic concept exists since Diablo, too - rack up a lot of elemental bonus damage per hit, then hit them as often as possible. Only that TQ requires you to focus in intelligence in order to do decent damage with *elements* alone, rather than being a hybrid.

But it was not until today, when trying what I believe to be the most feasible Build for this (Storm+Warfare), that I realized

• How well it can really work
• How gorgeous it looks!

I don't have the intention or time to write a guide here, just share a few things.

First: You get to fight as a dual blade-wielding kung-fu sorceress, flipping and spinning in a dress. A dress! With clouds, sparks and blue traces all around. It's of no further use of course, but I'm into style, and this is the most awesome-looking char I played so far. (This also influenced my choice of hat, as you can see. An impenetrable crest that raises pierce res by 80% or a Hunter's Headdress might have been a better option, but I couldn't pass on those glyphs and "Lightning level 100".)



Picture 2 - Picture 3 - Picture 4 - Picture 5 - Picture 6


Second: The lightning damage from the swords (Very fast, very light Scythians, both affixes lightning or cold, socketed with Zeus), Nimbus, items, artefact and Storm Surge really adds up to quite a bit when the Wisp is around. One Squall + Warhorn is usually enough to dispatch a group of enemies up to act 3 Legendary.
The concept is to place a squall cloud, lure a few of them into it (zap with lvl 1 lightning bolt, just for laughs), then stun and start shredding. 2.5k dps doesn't sound too much, but is nice at max attack speed with -recharged whirlwinds.

Third: It is safer than I thought. I was expecting to get my butt kicked going melee in cloth, at least by Tiger Warchiefs or the like. But most of the time it was the other way around. The secret is to have -66% attack speed as completion bonus on one of the Zeus relics, which should have touched every enemy before they come out of stun. So all melee enemies are slow, while archers and mages are blind from squalls. And if all else fails you can still deep-freeze the lot and run.
A Paladin may be even safer, but probably not by much considering he doesn't get the Horn and takes longer to kill stuff.

Stats & Gear (Buffs on, Ardor off) - Secondary - Skills

The only thing that really posed a problem were the Machae in Hades' Palace. The archers seemed to care little about my squall, while an unlucky crit from a charging Captain would one-hit my lvl 55 toon regularly, since her DA was only about 400.
However even this is nothing that can't be dealt with when she gets decent gear (Demon boots come to mind) and more health. And if you wish you could always switch to a staff or spells - it is an Int build after all.

EDIT
Almost forgot. This is of course the unique advantage of this char, as opposed to a strength or caster Thane: Besides more than doubled damage from Squall and Surge, you can later add *strong* Spells on top of your melee capabilities. E.g. use lightning bolt not just for the short stun, but to do real damage, thus creating a true Hybrid gameplay-wise.

I also looked through some equipment, and there are quite a few items that can raise her DA without cutting the damage by much. She won't look quite as cool, but things like the Ixion Stone, Pluton's armor and greaves and a Coronal of the Abyss (results in ~1200 DA) would certainly help her survivability.


All in all, a nice fun build which I for one am planning to do properly now.

[Shimeran]

Heh, nice combo. I'm actually trying out a "Surgin' Sage" right now. Gameplay is a bit different as the focus is on getting into the right position before you explode, but I'm finding it a lot of fun.

I've also though of doing a "whirling dervish" style battle mage. Use war wind to run into a group of enemies, set them on fire and move away as needed.

[riffraff14]

The character does look pretty cool! Especially the hat.

[Lemfan]

nice thane mate look **** cool

[Violos]

A related question - is there a list of all *normal* weapons somewhere, i.e. what stats and requirements they have, and at which point in the game one can buy them?

Also, is it known when the best affixes of a type start to appear? I found something on this, and on shops, but it was not satisfactory.

The objective in this case would be to find the lightest "very fast" sword that can have the best lightning/cold affixes on it, and the place to shop it.
But I'm certain everyone who uses shops has some degree of interest in this.

[gasconron]

Violos I gave this build a shot... started a char in xmax for the 0 death chall... but Im also testing her potential in Legendary. Made a lvl 60 test char, but seems like my dam output is sucking. It's really my first time playing a hybrid melee/mage so I don't know stat distribution. I have a couple of questions/need advice:

1.) gear... - Im aiming for Int based gear, with a - 30/40 recharge, decent DA, 50-60 CtaP %, with a 3-4k DPS rate

2.) Stat distribution - obviously cuz, my first time with a melee mage

3.) The use of Squall in melee combat.
a. Is it that you squall and lure them there? or squall and go to the AoE?
b. Used squall only as an ele before with -80 recharge so I can more or less increase the surface area of the Squall, and once melee get on me I remain unhurt. My experience with the Thane is that when I squall, and I get surrounded, I am still getting hit by melee (who should be "theoretically" be 100% impaired aim). I can't exactly spam squall to increase the surface area of the AoE cuz I'm playing it with very minimal -recharge gear.

- any pieces of advice?

[Violos]

Honestly, this is really no build for a zero death challenge, not even in the regular game... unless you REALLY want a challenge.
It' more about the thrill of being endangered all the time, by doing something stupid (but cool) like meleeing in robes, and still getting along better than expected.

The squall is mainly for the -resists, i.e. damage, and imapiring the aim of ranged enemies. Against the others, you have warhorn and slow attack.
Look closely, it's all up there.

[gasconron]

Actually... after finishing farming xp for my other chars, I went back down and read more and researched on this char for a couple of hours, ,essed around with defiler and my vault. I saw the links regarding your gear and I didn't really like the idea of multiple - resists... so I went ahead and experimented. Give me a feedback if I made the concept better, or worse...

Crown of Dockma'Ar
Cerebus Collar
* OA bonus, fills in the necessary resists that would make our Thane a sitting duck.
2x Soc of Imo rings (1 with leg demon, 1 with leg monkey tricks)
2x Sabretooths (both relic'd w/ Zeus's thunder)
* 1 w/ "of devouring" (optimum would be a dual prefix w/ thundering, which I have yet to find)... I'm thinking the other one should either be another devouring to stack, or a harrowing suffix, which is very rare (I don't have a sabre with a harrowing suffix, so Ill have to farm for this myself)...
Any Night Mistress Corselet (relic'd w/ Herakles Might)
* A INT based armor with a generous bonus of pierce resist...
WEIGHTLESS SBC of xxx (relic'd w/ Leg Pristine Plum)
* probably the most important piece of equip... enables you to equip the Sabretooths w/ minimal investment on STR, + 3 skills...
Demonskin Walkers
*+skill, Resists, movement...
Artifact of Choice - Star of Ishtar
*2nd most important gear for a huge boost in STR/DeX: resists, damage resist, boosts Dex for OA, DA and SBC....

(relic bonuses were altered to either give extra dex/str/lightning damage/+DA)

Stats: Assumin lvl 55 (All quest bonuses recieved in Normal)
3.8K+ life (none invested, life boost given by Imo rings)
1.5k + mana
Str - 280 (only 5pts invested in STR)
Int - 800+ (all the rest)
Dex - 546 (a lot)
Resists: Primary - 80, 57, 57, 30, 41; Secondary 0, 50, 0, 102, 133
DPS - 1.5k
OA - 1.4k
DA - 700+

What I found very unsettling about this:
1.) Requires mid-to-high stellar equip, which requires heavy twinking
2.) Heavy investment in Dex
3.) (Biggest Downside) To equip all the said equipment with the bare minimal investment in STR and Dex, you will have to play as a pure caster mage for the most part of normal and respec in Epic, which kills the concept of the melee mage. Unless willing to equip 2x Captain Sigs early on at the cost of damage.

[Violos]

Whether the concept as such is better or worse is hard to say from the stats alone, especially because the build above was just a test as well and my "proper" one is still in normal.

Still, a few things:

1) What do you mean, you don't like -resists? From Archmage's? And Monkey King does just that.

2) The crown is great, so is the Amulet. I would have sugested Tracker's Hood for lightning dmg and -recharge, but that's certainly a good choice as well.

3) Speaking of it, what I miss in your equip are flat lightning/cold damage boni. You don't have to have them on every piece, but they are important because they create your base damage on every strike. Especially the relic, jewelery and hat can be good sources good for this (compare Knife thrower).

4) DA seems rather low, too. I haven't calculated the other resists with the gear I looked up, but since the greatest danger comes from melee this should be a priority. You could save on sec. resists where they go beyond 80%, if possible.

5) Sabertooths could be great, depending on the boni they can get in epic - leg ones may be a bit heavy. But "harrowing" needs a lot of -resists to work on bosses. I don't think it's even worthwile without Necrosis.

6) As for strength, the % boost or reductions aren't that huge if all you need is 250. There may even be lighter swords. And in the end it doesn't matter whether you get that from relics and put points in int or vice-versa. Same with life - just reach it somehow, based on your gear. A few points into Str won't lose you much damage.

6) Stonebinder's. If you have good ones and a nice relic they are certainly worth it, since you need the strength anyway, and the extra dex also helps your OA/DA a bit. Otoh you need -recharge somewhere to spam Squall and Whirlwind, that's why I used Archmage's.
I guess it's a choice between Tracker's Hood + SBC or Crown + Archmage's, whatever you prefer/have. Or maybe some hallowed green headgear with Erebus Relic, if you were lucky enough to find the +2 skills yet.


All in all... just try, there isn't much to do permanently wrong. A little more dex isn't all that bad. As long as you don't get more than 250 base str...


EDIT: Oh, and about your "biggest downside" - why is that? I just used two knives with Zeus and max Nimbus, and then max Squall. 1 point stunball to stun, later Warhorn. Works like a charm.
When things start to get harder around Chang'an, the Terracottas will conveniently supply you with very fast, usually element enchanted swords. Only by then you should have some Str/Dex to wield them.

[gasconron]

Ty Violos for the quick response, appreciate it.

about the "biggest drawback" its probably because of habit. I am too pampered by my other broken melee chars that has either 100 CtaP (Brig), huge damage conversion (Conq) or a whopping life (Champ)... The concept of a very frail melee early on is fairly new to me.