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Thread: Potions (specifically energy)

  1. #21
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Cost a lot of money - annoying, only. Makes you take more junk back to vendors. Won't work for a moment.
    Less dropping - you either buy or farm for them. Makes the game less interesting.
    More cooldown - could work...
    Less mana refilled - only annoying (just use the lesser versions of energy pots to see how annoying it is)
    Increased regen instead of a flat refill - won't make much of a difference in energy pools; only the timing will change, instead of using it at 10%energy left you'll use it at 90% energy left.
    Enemy attack interrupt?

    The best way to 'solve' the energy problem, which, I think, has no real disadvantages but offers some good aspects;
    - give unlimited energy potions
    - greatly penalize the player for using an energy potion to prevent in-battle potting (-100%damage absorption, 0DA, -100%resistances, 5 sec skill disruption, etc...) - we could even try a sort of stoneform for recharging. Anyway, we can figure something out.
    This seems to me to be the most viable way of implementing a good energy system.

    Additionally; the amount of energy regen can be a set % of the total or it can be the same as a potion, the amount of energy being recharged will be increased upon completing quests (which would previously reward you with energy potions).
    Change the icon for energy potions in something more fitting (e.g. a meditation icon).

  2. #22

    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    That's actually a really interesting proposition. Except that for example 'shard druids would be able to abuse this easily. They could hold the ice shard button down to kill the group of enemies in front of him, then use meditation. Since he has unlimited meditations, he could do this after every battle.

  3. #23
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Well, the point is that it's possible to do after every battle.

    The whole current messed up energy managing system gets thrown out for a system that allows you to instantly recharge after every fight. The rationale for this being that players could simply wait for the energy to recharge before they enter the next battle (or in extreme cases, which might be used in tough no potion challenges - quit and restart) - thus speeding up the annoying progress of energy regeneration while also making it more difficult.

  4. #24
    Demigod jiaco's Avatar
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    I posted this in the other thread, but after reading all these posts here, I still think my idea is the simplest.

    Leave mana potions as they are but for 1 or 2 seconds after you drink one, you have 0% attack/cast speed.

    This physically mimics the act of drinking a potion. Then you can do it in battle if you want, but it encourages running out of the battle, drinking it, then running back in, which better simulates what a toon would do when wielding a weapon but then wanting to grab into a sack, pulling out a potion and drinking it. Not really possible to do that while spamming attacks at the same time.

  5. #25
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Yes, looks like my preference, with the difference that it doesn't completely nerf the player for drinking pots.

    I really like that idea (not because it mimicks reality - reality was thrown out of the window the moment thunderbolts flew from your fingertops to destroy mythical monsters) - I don't think 0% cast and attackspeed is possible though (I bet there's a minimum of around 40%) We could probably skill disrupt the player and give -%1000total damage. I don't know if there's a work-around so that it doesn't get reduced by %skill disruption resistance though.

    Shouldn't cause too much turmoil either.

  6. #26
    Priest
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Another idea that's an offshoot of some others. Why not make it so energy potions just increase mana regeneration based on a toon's flat regen? That way you'd want a higher base energy so you can maximize its use. Non-caster toons would need to raise it but not too much, and caster toons would want it higher. Spamming it would have little effect as it wouldn't be allowed to stack, although better potions grant higher +regen.

    My problem with drinking mana potions = penalty is that it could very well change the dynamics of the game quite a bit. As a player who plays toons very sensitive to such changes I'm partial to any alternatives, although perhaps with some more refinement mana pots=penalty would become acceptable.

  7. #27
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Well, the whole point of penalizing people for using energy potions is changing the game dynamics quite a bit, as the game mechanics pretty much suck regarding energy, making it a near-useless variable. Well, that's my opinion ofcourse.

    Nerfing the regen bonus from potions can only do so much and won't invite many people to spend points in it, I'm afraid it'll make the game less fun.

  8. #28

    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Continuing from another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by yerkyerk View Post
    The potion system was copied straight from D2 (who undoubtly copied it from other RPGs), without a real effort to improve it (except for adding a cooldown). I don't think they really considered other solutions. D2 worked, and TQ probably didn't want to reinvent the potion system in order not to alienate the hack'n slash fanbase - or they thought it was fine... In D2 however, the energy system was already negligible due to potting.
    I'm having trouble coming up with some way to say that I think it's impossible for me to disagree more.

    I recognize that you view that there is a problem with something. I'm having a problem really seeing what the problem is. You say that it's energy and that it is redundant. I question why that's even an issue.

    So I guess these are my questions:

    1. What is the problem with energy and energy potions?

    2. Why is this a problem?

    I read through the thread and couldn't find an answer to these questions.

  9. #29
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    1. The problem with energy and energy potions is that the way they are currently working is that energy potions completely cancel energy out. You can carry as many potions as you like. If you're low on energy, you hit the 'e' button, which will restore all your energy. So, you'll never run out of energy. Thus, the unlimited amount of energy potions as well as how often they can be used and how much energy they restore make energy a completely unnecessary component in this game.

    2. Energy has become a useless annoying gameplay element. As a result, every skill and equipment piece that gives bonus or penalizes energy is nearly useless. Also, energy could be an added tactic factor to the game if it was set up properly.

    EDIT: I just reread the OP and the reason for nerfing energy potions is not stated at all, sorry for that
    Another reason for 2. : Masteries that give energy instead of health are basically screwed. They get an almost worthless attribute...

  10. #30

    Re: Potions (specifically energy)

    Quote Originally Posted by yerkyerk View Post
    1. The problem with energy and energy potions is that the way they are currently working is that energy potions completely cancel energy out. You can carry as many potions as you like. If you're low on energy, you hit the 'e' button, which will restore all your energy. So, you'll never run out of energy. Thus, the unlimited amount of energy potions as well as how often they can be used and how much energy they restore make energy a completely unnecessary component in this game.

    2. Energy has become a useless annoying gameplay element. As a result, every skill and equipment piece that gives bonus or penalizes energy is nearly useless. Also, energy could be an added tactic factor to the game if it was set up properly.

    EDIT: I just reread the OP and the reason for nerfing energy potions is not stated at all, sorry for that
    Another reason for 2. : Masteries that give energy instead of health are basically screwed. They get an almost worthless attribute...
    Alright thanks for clearing that up for me. I still disagree about energy being useless because of potions. Remove the energy you gain from the mana giving masteries and I think you'll see that the problem isn't the mana that the potions give but the total amount of mana we have. When we have 5k mana by level 50 and our average spell cost about 100-300 mana, we're casting 50-16 spells before we run out of mana. That's not taking in to consideration mana regen and all of the other things that give bonuses to our mana. With a weak mana regen of 20 you're talking more about 80-25 spells before you need mana.

    By that time, you've probably already killed about 2-3 groups of baddies on legendary, give or take depending on the encounter.

    However, if you're looking to make energy a more important stat, you could start by lowering the amount of energy that casters have (lowering the amount of energy melee types have would ruin hybrids) while putting a dramatic dent in to mana potions OR force them to give a % of total mana up to a point.

    I don't think penalizing people for using a potion is a good idea. Making people unable to attack, or unable to move, or anything like that is a good idea. It slows down the pace of the game while making weaker mastery combinations have an even harder time of things.

    Mainly, penalizing people for something that is both a natural and instinctive gaming medium (potion quaffing in combat) is a really bad thing. A truly bad thing.

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