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Thread: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

  1. #1

    Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    Ok, so if anyone knows of some threads that answer this, please gimme a link, I haven't been able to find any.
    I want to compile the pros and cons of all the 'immortalising' mods: CtAP, DA, CtDA, Blocking, Less damage from x.

    This is so I can find out the most immortal combination, i.e. immune to all attacks.

    From what I know:

    Avoid projectiles:

    -Pros:
    *Easy to obtain 100% from gear, especially if you use Hunting and/or Dream for their CtAP skills.
    *Blocks mage strikes, archers, meteors, empusa clouds, grey sisters' clouds, flamethrower effects

    -Cons:
    *Doesn't block some AoE damage or Dragon Liche's poison or Typhon's life/energy leech or Albino Spiders' projectile or lightning strikes or storm surge
    *May need to compromise DPS to use CtAP gear instead of +dmg gear

    Dodge Attacks:

    -Pros:
    *Doesn't need increasing amounts like DA

    -Cons:
    *Needs specific gear to get 100% even with skills
    *If you get hit, it hits for big damage without sufficient DA
    *Would be hard to get 100% CtDA and 100% CtAP together

    Defensive Ability:

    -Pros:
    *Helps your shield blocking
    *If you don't have enough to make them completely miss, it still greatly reduces damage done.

    -Cons:
    *Can take some quite specific gear to achieve enough for complete immunity to physical attacks.

    Shield Block:

    -Pros:
    *Blocks physical and projectile attacks (Anything that can be missed by DA/anything that can get avoided by CtAP)
    *Only takes one (maybe two if you need to get the -25% recharge for constant Quick Recovery) gear slot

    -Cons:
    *Needs Defense mastery if serious about getting full 100%/-100% block.

    Less damage from x:

    -Pros:
    *Can eliminate all damge from specific enemy type (Including damage reflected and AoE effects)
    *Dactyls are neutralised with ritual gear

    -Cons:
    *Hard/impossible to get for some monster types (Olympian/Titan)
    *No one gear setup afaik can give you complete immunity to demons, magical, undead, beastmen, beasts, insectoids.

    Ideal Setup:
    imo, the best would be going Defense for 100%/-100% Shield block. This would then be accompanied by a Ritual jewellery set for use in Hades Palace, or more specifically, where Dactyls spawn, because of their tendancy to kick your butt.
    If not choosing the Defense route, the next best (or maybe best in some people's opinions) would be a Haruspex or even just Hunting for 100% CtAP/1700+DA. This takes more gear/skill options to achieve but is more flexible in playstyle (not having to have a shield, can be a mage/archer). This setup too would be best with a Ritual jewellery set in Hades Palace.

    Ritual Jewellery Set:
    A Ritual jewellery set can take a while to setup, but once you have you can walk around Hades Palace without too much fear (Except the Albino Spiders, don't forget your Vitality resistance). This is accomplished by having a Ritual necklace and 3x Tortured Souls w/ Ritual completion bonus on them socketed in your jewellery; this gives you -96% damage from undead, demons, magical. You will need another item to complete the -demons and -magical damage to become fully immune, but 96% should be enough that you don't instantly die to any of their attacks.


    PLEASE help me to complete this list, I haven't had any experience with Dodge Attacks, and limited with CtAP/DA and with Shield Blocking, so if I'm completely wrong about something let me know.

  2. #2

    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    Avoid projectiles doesn't block AoE, in fact only damage reduction can do it.

    Dodge attacks is awesome: even a tremendous Nate punch will no more threaten you. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR more effective than defensive ability, can be achieved easily: Hermes talaria go up to 17%dodge, Zeno third paradox reach 23%, a weapon and a bracer of trickery reach 9% each etc....

    Defensive ability in useless in theory: a monster with more OA than your DA will own you. This don't occur with dodge attacks, instead

    PS: yes i know: i must improve my english.....

  3. #3

    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    Your English is fine, but you repeated a few things I had already said
    Anyways, I updated post with what you said, if you can think of more bullet points to put on, I'll be happy, especially about Dodge Attacks as I have no experience with it.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Poinas's Avatar
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    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    It's still difficult to get lots of dodge attack. I'd rather have high DA and low dodge attack, than high dodge and low DA.

    With high dodge (not 100%), you will get hit eventually, and it will hurt if you have low DA. With high DA (~1300) you get hit often, but they won't hurt that much

    Quote Originally Posted by Wispo
    Defensive ability in useless in theory: a monster with more OA than your DA will own you. This don't occur with dodge attacks, instead
    In practice, no monster has over ~1100 offensive ability, and you can get your DA higher than that.
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  5. #5

    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    Quote Originally Posted by BeaverusIV View Post
    Your English is fine, but you repeated a few things I had already said
    Anyways, I updates post with what you said, if you can think of more bullet points to put on, I'll be happy, especially about Dodge Attacks as I have no experience with it.
    Ehm, sorry mate but according to my experience (i can be wrong, in this case i will ask sorry to you) you have written an unexactly thing about dodge: it is almost impossible to reach 100% without skill. In theory you must have an helm like Darkness helm and stonebinder's sash other than all the rest....... The only way is to put together equipment and:
    1) dodge skill from Warfare
    or
    2) blurred vision from Alchemy (Masteries mod).

    Talking about evade projectiles, i can tell you more: it is more effective of what it seems!!!!!! In TQ there are some attacks that APPEARS like AoE, but are actually projectiles........ Manticore's thunder breath or Talos' flamethrower are avoidables with 100% CAP!!!! Moreover, a total avoiding character will not suffer from any no-AoE blow, but enemies will receive always your eventual reflection of damage. This is particular useful for melee builds, that can use the combination of avoid and reflection to kill enemies without need to reach them physically.

    For a semi invincible build, my advice is still this: 100% dodge, 100% CAP and the most damage reduction possible!!!!!

    @ Poinas: you're right, but we must consider mods like Achilles or Infinite Lilith!!!!! Monsters with pseudo infinite OA (like Barmanu) are an insta kill even for a 3.000+ DA char......

    Edit: i have doing some calculations, and reaching 100% dodge with no skill is possible, but will result in a character unable to do anything else

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    I agree with Poinas on the CtDA vs. DA arguments. It is much harder to achieve 100% Dodge than to have 2100 DA and if you only have 1700 DA you're still much better off with a little bit of attack damage converted to health or regeneration (Trance of Convalescence comes to mind) than with 80% CtDA.

    CtAP does not only block non-AoE attacks. All poison clouds, all Empusa area attacks, the mealstrom attacks of Hades and the Grey Sisters and a lot of other attacks are completely avoided.
    That makes a Bow Haruspex one of the best xmax Hades runners in my eyes - just make sure you don't get hit by three melee attacks at once and you got a steady 15 seconds kill every time.
    I don't agree with the cons of CtAP and DA. High DA is easier to achieve in my opinion.

    Blocking also does much more than defend against physical and missile attacks. In my experience it blocks besides melee attacks at least the same as CtAP blocks. Perfect blocking makes you immune to empusa soul draining spells. You can stand in a poison cloud and listen to the *clink* *clank* sounds every second.
    As long as you have defensive mastery 100% blocking is ridiculously easy to achieve. Just get any Act IV green shield, put a turtle shield in it and wear one of the -recharge weapon/shield combos on your weapon switch. This basically makes you immune to everything but boss attacks. A few points into Rally and you'll never have to drink a health potion.

    I don't have much experience with the other options, but I say the best options are either block or CtAP/DA. Of course you can substitute CtAP with a maxed Squall, but then you'd have to think while playing, a thing you otherwise won't have to do.

  7. #7

    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    Quote Originally Posted by Soranor View Post
    I agree with Poinas on the CtDA vs. DA arguments. It is much harder to achieve 100% Dodge than to have 2100 DA and if you only have 1700 DA you're still much better off with a little bit of attack damage converted to health or regeneration (Trance of Convalescence comes to mind) than with 80% CtDA.

    CtAP does not only block non-AoE attacks. All poison clouds, all Empusa area attacks, the mealstrom attacks of Hades and the Grey Sisters and a lot of other attacks are completely avoided.
    That makes a Bow Haruspex one of the best xmax Hades runners in my eyes - just make sure you don't get hit by three melee attacks at once and you got a steady 15 seconds kill every time.
    I don't agree with the cons of CtAP and DA. High DA is easier to achieve in my opinion.

    Blocking also does much more than defend against physical and missile attacks. In my experience it blocks besides melee attacks at least the same as CtAP blocks. Perfect blocking makes you immune to empusa soul draining spells. You can stand in a poison cloud and listen to the *clink* *clank* sounds every second.
    As long as you have defensive mastery 100% blocking is ridiculously easy to achieve. Just get any Act IV green shield, put a turtle shield in it and wear one of the -recharge weapon/shield combos on your weapon switch. This basically makes you immune to everything but boss attacks. A few points into Rally and you'll never have to drink a health potion.

    I don't have much experience with the other options, but I say the best options are either block or CtAP/DA. Of course you can substitute CtAP with a maxed Squall, but then you'd have to think while playing, a thing you otherwise won't have to do.
    Really? I know that if an attack IS an area attack, it can't be avoided at all. Maybe is a "problem" of classification!!!! A thunder seems a projectile but actually is considered AoE.......
    Poinas explain us!!!!!

  8. #8

    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    There are some attacks that are auto-hit, but they can be reduced by 'x% less damage from y', so 100% less damage from beastmen will nullify the tiger mage's lightning attack and storm surge where CtAP doesn't do squat.

    Added some updates to the main post, including a stint about ritual gear, please someone help me on that if its wrong.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
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    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    is there a difference whit armor absortion and damage absortion das it one overrite the other. das 10 damage + 10 armor become 20 absortion or 10 absortion???

  10. #10

    Re: Avoid Projectiles vs Dodge Attacks vs Shield Block vs DA vs Less Damage from x

    They are seperate things. Damage absorbtion works on all types of damage. Armour absorbtion increases the ability of your armour to negate damage afaik, so there isn't any overlap or addition.

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