Heart of Oak tree

[Tyr]

So? Going back to the town just to buy pots after almost every battle (if you chug mana potions like crazy) is enough to make most players try their hand at more practical builds.
It worked for Diablo 2, didn't it?

The option to use mana-heavy builds would still be there, but the price would be that the effort involved would be enough to really try anyone's patience.

You can't have practicality and power at the same time.

[yerkyerk]

It didn't work for D2 - I have no idea where you got that impression... really. Everyone with a good amount of knowledge advices not to put points in mana (safe for a rare occurence where they tell you to only put a few measly points), just look up the boards or look in strategy guides; they all say the same; using points for mana is a waste.

It's my impression that limiting the amount of energy potions is not going to add anything to gameplay, except for annoyance.

[Tyr]

It worked for D2 because although Energy had no effect on skills people still invested points in it. Please give me the build of a Sorceress without points in Energy.
Ideally you could live in D2 with only minimum energy, except for the most part all you'll probably do is PvP. Try killing Diablo or going through a whole Act with that build and a "less powerful" character would laugh at your hardships. The sole exception are characters who have the items to compensate... But what would be the point of bragging about that? Bragging that you can survive with no points in energy because of items is not much different from bragging about killing Typhon because of items like Sapros.

My point exactly. It's annoying, so people will learn to use more mana-practical builds. It's probably the most mundane fix there is. Anything more complicated and I expect some of the more nefarious among us is gonna find an exploit.

There's probably some other fix, but this is my 2 cents. This is a purely theoretical arguement, btw. For all we know perhaps an offshoot and simpler fix can be derived from it.

[jiaco]

Realistically, pots should not be able to be used while in combat without some penalty. An attack speed decrease would make sense so that toons would either have to run away some reasonable distance to drink safely or they would take hits while not dishing any damage for a brief 1-2 seconds when the pot is consumed.

Would it be feasible to add an attack speed (or any other attribute) penalty to all pots?

[yerkyerk]

Please continue the discussion of the workings on energy potions here;
http://www.titanquest.net/forums/gam...tml#post323390

[Solitaire]

...Methinks we got a bit offtopic there

Alright, I'll save my 2c for later, but back to topic and am I the only person here that thinks Permanence kinda sucks? It just doesn't have the scale to add much to the argument that is "surviving Legendary" The +65% Elemental Resist as a standard feature on perma-Rally abusing Defenders merely coming second to the same skill's 100% Chance of 80% Reflect is bad enough, but 10/6 Inspiration makes it even more glaring - he's getting +10 base E-Gen for this gorgeous(ly abusive) buff tree while Permanence adds to HoO's Energy cost!

IMHO: Increase Permanence to 8 points, increase resist at ultimate level a bit, and mirror it by throwing in a similar amount of +%Elemental Damage to the equation. Not as abusive as you may think (high-Int chars have big adds to their elemental damage mulitpliers anyway from Int so its not overpowering in any way) and it makes the skill at least worth investing in. Maybe drop HoO to 10 points (and %Health per level to ~6) to balance the skill points out.

And I'm also of the opinion that Tranquility needs a hefty boost to make it worth it; I was thinking of playing on the name and focusing on defensive modifiers to keep things more canon-y rather than any kind of direct offensive boosts (for that see my point above ) Thinking along the line of +%DA, or +%Dodge (in true tranquil Zen Master style its rather fitting ) or small amounts of both. Again, this should help benefit the other recipients of your aura, pets or peeps, as well.

[yerkyerk]

I think Permanence is high enough - unlike Defiance, it's a skill that is always on. If I didn't wear +9 skills, I bet I'd max it for all my builds that have Nature

As for dropping points for HoO - If anything, I think we should be increasing the amount of skillpoints, so people will have to choose more carefully where they sink their points. I think it's fine really.

Tranquility is sucky, yes. That's what started the whole energy potions debate If energy could get a real role in TQ, than Tranquility's value will increase also.

Anyway, that's only my opinion.

[Solitaire]

What?! Your Defiance isn't always on?! How quaint!

And the amount of resist even at 10/6 isn't that hot (especially compared to decent equipment and resist requirements for Legendary!), yet it costs additonal Energy to support. And the pets tend to dodge staff projectiles and die at the first sniff of a nuke anyway...

[The Rock-man]

So you think ~2.6% elemental resist is worth 1 skill point? (As that average return on Permanence of Stone not counting the first point)

FYI: I think 2.6 is almost worthless, when I can cover this with 1 item and get something better. Also that item usually has other bonuses I want anyway so it not like I am giving up something.

As for Defiance and Rally, you can have it up long enough to make a difference with out trouble without any -recharge, though it not a lot better per skill point than PoS at ~3.7% resist wise but it has got 5x slvl damage reflection added on top.

BTW I personally think if PoS was changed to damage absorption it would fit in better though the % will need changing to +1% per point or similar so it be 10% at slvl 6 and 14% at ultimate. If this seems over powered why not add damage resistance to it at the same or lesser amount to the elemental resist?

[RDespair]

Personally, if I was going to change Tranquility of Water to make it more useful, but hopefully not overpowered, I would make it so that it gives a flat -% Energy Cost (100% chance) & I'd also have it give a hefty bonus to Energy Leech resistance.