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Thread: [Nature] Nymph tree

  1. #1
    Administrator yerkyerk's Avatar
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    [Nature] Nymph tree

    First, a naming convention. Like there's "Call of the Wild" (instead of Summon Wolves), I think it's nice to call this skill "Call of the Woods" instead of "Sylvan Nymph". Notice that this is one of the few pets that doesn't have the proverb "Summon" in its name.

    Anyway, about something other than superficial changes:
    The Nymph needs more power. I think it should get some buffing or debuffing spell at level 5, which increases per level. Not sure what though.

    As for Overgrowth; it completely sucks. It absorbs like 200 damage at max, is cast at random intervals, it disappears if the damage is exceded (which is pretty much after 1/3rd of a hit on Legendary) and it is only cast on the player. My idea is to change how the Overgrowth shield deactivates; instead of it deactivating after the damage is exceded, it comes with a 20 second timer that increases by 1 second per skillpoint.

    As for Nature's Wrath, the damage seems decent, but it's only used 1 in every 4 shots or so. I suggest to reduce the cooldown by 70-80% or so, else the skill will hardly be used.

  2. #2

    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    "Voice of the Wood" might be good, just to avoid the redundancy of a second "Call of."

    Some possible suggestions for base improvement:
    *I have no idea how possible this is...probably not at all, but anyhow; seeing as nymphs are generally the spirit of a specific location, like that poisoned lake, perhaps it could have a resistance-altering buff depending on where it's summoned, like one in the desert raising fire resistance/lowering enemy resistance.
    *The health reduction effect increasing with level, since %3 is pretty insignificant.
    *Possibly an offensive sort of overgrowth, that tangles/weakens enemies.

    The timed Overgrowth could potentially be overpowered, especially on lower difficulties. Lasting 200 damage absorption would make a character near invincible. Is it possible to tie it to her stats, so that it also increases with difficulty? Other thoughts might be to give it a passive bonus like regen or resistance while it's in effect, and to let her cast it on other allies. Another thing that may or may not be possible is to tie it to the nymph's energy, so that she suffers energy loss the more damage the player soaks up.

    Reduced cooldown on Nature's Wrath sounds good to me, it's not like she's using the energy on anything else.

    If that issue with the nymph not benefitting from +pet damage items isn't changed in the 1.17 bugfix patch, I definitely think it should fit in here.

  3. #3
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    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    First off, I prefer she remains "Sylvan Nymph" because story-wise she is a spirit of the woods who has decided to join you in your quest as your familiar. :
    She's not like the Core Dweller or the Wisp, which someone summoned from somewhere and she's not an enslaved soul like the Liche King/Outsider. Story-wise she's probably the only pet who has the option to leave you if she wanted to.

    The nymph's 3% HP per hit is not underpowered, in the sense that she attacks around 2.something times per second (so it's more like 6-7% damage reduction per second) and has an attack range of around two-thirds of the screen. It should scale with difficulties, though, so she becomes more useful to other classes besides the Wanderer itself. 4% for Epic and 5% for Legendary should be enough.
    It's OK if she remains unaffected by +pet damage stuff.

    IMO the best fix for Overgrowth is to make it an AoE buff skill (like the Wisp's Eye of the Storm) which reduces all incoming damage by 1 to x for 3-5 seconds, where x improves per level of the skill. The lower the HP of the player/nymph is, the higher the chance that she'll use the skill.
    Overgrowth:
    When in dire need the nymph can call upon the primal forces of nature to manifest as a living shield that grants damage absorption to the caster and their allies.

    Nature's Wrath would be more useful if it did additional burn damage. Say at level 12 the skill would do 88-160 + 150 elemental burn damage per second for 2 seconds (at normal). It was never intended as a nuke but rather as a finishing skill or a crowd softener skill.

  4. #4

    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    Might be overpowered, but.. why not switch her boltgun (well, she IS basically a mobile Trap at the moment! ) for a much stronger "proper" bow with 50% Piercing? It could help allow a (fixed) Nymph to benefit from a much wider variety of buffs - Strength of the Pack for starters

    And +1 to the idea of adding the "missing" lvl5+ Advanced Attacks to the Nymph, wolves and CD

  5. #5

    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    How about doing something slightly different ?

    Leaving how it works, ( How the Nymph casts it, and how much life it has, 200 Life), have it proc an effect on being destroyed.

    Say mobs hit the shield until it is destroyed. When the shield life hits zero, an AOE stun effect of 1.5 to 2.5 seconds of around 10 to 15 ft would be good.

    Think of it as a protective barrier which is effective versus melee, but not so versus range attackers. Additionally, for every level put in, says it has a % chance of proccing the level of the Plague skill you u possess at the moment.

    Say base 3%, with + 1% with every point put into the skill, and + 1% with every point put into both Nature's Wrath and/or the Nympth itself, think of it as a collective synergy. It would good to move Overgrowth to the top of the tree, and put Nature's Wrath in the 2nd slot. ( All numbers are just for show ).

    Esstentially, think of it as a stun + protect + plague spread move. Which synergies well with the theme of a healing Wanderer.

    So. It works like an anti melee pressure shield.

    A mob hits the player. He kills the Overgrowth shield.

    It explodes, disbursing a AOE stun. At the highest level, it can proc ur plague skill, which spreads to any close by surrounding mobs.

    Addiing further, in place of an AOE stun, a knockback effect, which just causes mobs to fly a considerable distance would be interesting and spectacular for visual effects.

  6. #6
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    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    And +1 to the idea of adding the "missing" lvl5+ Advanced Attacks to the Nymph, wolves and CD
    Actually a lot of stuff in Nature mastery wasn't implemented/finished. I think originally the class was intended to be animal/plant-summoning exclusive. One would think as much given some entries in the art manager.

  7. #7
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    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    Let's focus on the nymph herself; firstly, she is not properly attached to her controllers, so her IT behavior in any stance [default | aggressive | defensive] is the same as TQ default. This could drastically affect her effectiveness.

    I think overgrowth would be most valid as a mild damage reduction/regeneration effect, allowing the nymph to improve general longevity of one's potentially large number of pets. With a slight naming alteration, a thorn-esque damage retaliation could be added as well. It's mostly down to what primarily fits best with Nature and secondarily what manages well with other masteries, as well as what's practical in the game.

    Nature's Wrath, on the other hand, could perhaps have less to do with direct damage and more to do with debuffs or damage over time.

    Mewcatus' suggestion has the potential of working, but overlooks the fact that Nature already has a proximity defense ability - Briar Ward. Instead of giving other abilities the same effect, we should go about fixing the original. Also, proccing your current level of plague does not appear too possible with the game.

    Solitaire's comment is very valid, as, currently the nymph does not benefit much whatsoever from common damage bonuses to pets, and the "level 5" reward skills for pets is a good boon in the game to keep people interested in leveling their pets.

  8. #8

    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuaera View Post
    Let's focus on the nymph herself; firstly, she is not properly attached to her controllers, so her IT behavior in any stance [default | aggressive | defensive] is the same as TQ default. This could drastically affect her effectiveness.

    I think overgrowth would be most valid as a mild damage reduction/regeneration effect, allowing the nymph to improve general longevity of one's potentially large number of pets. With a slight naming alteration, a thorn-esque damage retaliation could be added as well. It's mostly down to what primarily fits best with Nature and secondarily what manages well with other masteries, as well as what's practical in the game.

    Nature's Wrath, on the other hand, could perhaps have less to do with direct damage and more to do with debuffs or damage over time.

    Mewcatus' suggestion has the potential of working, but overlooks the fact that Nature already has a proximity defense ability - Briar Ward. Instead of giving other abilities the same effect, we should go about fixing the original. Also, proccing your current level of plague does not appear too possible with the game.

    Solitaire's comment is very valid, as, currently the nymph does not benefit much whatsoever from common damage bonuses to pets, and the "level 5" reward skills for pets is a good boon in the game to keep people interested in leveling their pets.
    I actually concur with you on the proximity dulication issue. But to be honest, I feel that the briar ward feels more like a liability then an asset.

    Because, say for a Boss fight, and without using leashing, it is probably next to suicidal to stay still at one location. We have seen alot of instances where certain boss skills can KO a player in 3 or 4 seconds who stay still. As such, I actually feel that Briar Ward might actually need a fundamental change of how it works. But that should be discussed in the other thread.

    Nevertheless, alot of good points mentioned earlier here, which includes the delicate balancing of just how strong the overgrowth shield.

    That being said, heres a more concrete example of how the overgrowth shield could work.

    1st reducing the number of levels in shield to 8, to remove it as a point sink

    Say, Level 1. A flat base 200 damage shield.

    From level 2 to level 8, it adds + 2% shield strength based on the players current MP maximum reserves, which is multiplicatively increased.

    And a percentage change to proc an AOE stun with increases increasingly with every skill point put in.

    Its like this.
    Say a player with 1200 MP base.
    Level. ||Shield level ||%proc stun AOE 1.5 sec.
    1 ||200 ||1
    2 ||200 + 24 = 224 ||1 + 2 = 3
    3 ||200 + 24 + 48 = 272 ||1 + 2 + 3 = 6
    4 ||272 + 72 = 344 ||10
    5 ||344 + 96 = 440 ||15
    6 ||440 + 120 = 560 ||21
    7 ||560 + 144 = 704 ||28
    8 ||704 + 168 = 872 ||36
    9 ||872 + 192 = 632 ||45
    10 ||632 + 216 = 740 ||55
    11 ||740 + 240 = 860 ||66
    12 ||860 + 264 = 1124 ||78

    Notice that the shield progressively becomes stronger and stronger as more points are vested into this. At the highest level, for a caster, this shield can act as a protective barrier, and if he throws more points in his his MP banks, if can act like an artifical HP bank.

    For non caster hybrids, they might choose to instead max it, so that the shield act as a proximity range stun bomb.

    Note that, all numbers and levels are just for show. They can be tweaked.

  9. #9
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    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    I am almost wholly certain that you cannot place a formula into the shielding values. Also, we need to find some justification as to why a damage shield/anti-melee stun is necessary in nature anyway, as increased hitpoint values and healing are already extremely abundant. We don't even necessarily need to stay with a friendly buff; we could turn overgrowth into a debuff or a self-ability.

    When a skill starts out as being useless, we have the greatest flexibility in making it better.

  10. #10

    Re: [Nature] Nymph tree

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuaera View Post
    I am almost wholly certain that you cannot place a formula into the shielding values. Also, we need to find some justification as to why a damage shield/anti-melee stun is necessary in nature anyway, as increased hitpoint values and healing are already extremely abundant. We don't even necessarily need to stay with a friendly buff; we could turn overgrowth into a debuff or a self-ability.

    When a skill starts out as being useless, we have the greatest flexibility in making it better.
    Try running around with only 700 DA, 1000+ armour and only about 6 to 7K HP, and this is done wearing legendary intelligence type artifacts.

    I have seen creatures crit me for 1.5K to 2.5K damage per hit, using an intelligence build. This is especially so in Act 4. Thus, without using any form of leashing, stay still is a very very bad option.

    Assuming that you only use plague and creatures to deal damage, you can run ur fingers sore especially in the x3 or xmax mods.

    All in all, I actually find that it is unfair that there is only agility and Strength based type of tanks. Why not try having a int type of tank ? The only difference is int type tanks are easily shut down by MP draining ability and silence type spells. It is just that there aren't enough of such type of creatures in TQIT.

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