Can't find a full Harbinger guide. Please help.

[Zanatar]

I want to be a Harbinger (Warfare/Dream) or Dream/Warfare (not sure if it makes a difference which you choose first).. I'm new to TQ.

I am unable to locate a guide for this. Please I am not just looking for a link to titancalc with a build that way. I'm looking for a complete well thought out guide that goes over a level progression on how to build the class.. ie: Lvl 1 - points in xx skill, lvl 2 put skill points in xx skill etc. These types of guides are usually very thorough and go into detail for both skill and stats distribution, suggested gear etc and deep analysis etc.

I've seen some pretty decent guides like this for other classes. But I can't seem to find anything like this for Harbinger.

Has anyone else?

Thanks, Zanatar.

[Ruse]

This post gives some insight on what skills you might want to max first.

This damage mitigation also adds some good insight I think.

This guy has some very specific questions, and got some very good answers about how different skills function versus mobs and versus bosses, as well as opinions on what mastery to choose first.

I browsed thru threads I got by advanced searching "harbinger" in the title only, and I don't see any all-out guides like you're looking for. I think your best bet is to browse the different harbinger threads and see what new info you can glean from each of them. Sorry I can't be more help, as I am quite new myself and haven't played a harbinger. If I stumble across anything else (been multitasking, it's possible I missed something) I'll post again or edit this one if no one else has posted yet. ^^

[McGyverForTehWin]

Basically, you can't screw it up. The Harbinger is the third (possibly second) best class in Titan Quest and anywhere you pour points is fine.

But what the heck, I'll write you up how I did (and am still doing) my Harbinger so you can cross-reference it to other builds out there. Just give me an hour or so.

[Zanatar]

Basically, you can't screw it up. The Harbinger is the third (possibly second) best class in Titan Quest and anywhere you pour points is fine.

But what the heck, I'll write you up how I did (and is still doing) my Harbinger so you can cross-reference it to other builds out there. Just give me an hour or so.

Ah Thank you so much.. I'm really looking forward to it!

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned Harbringer is 3rd (possibly second) best class in Titan Quest. What do you consider those top 3 classes to be?

This is my first ever run through the game as I've just purchased the Gold edition of TQ. So I 'd be curious to know, of those top 3, which is likely better for a first timer to play around with.

But I'm still very much looking forward to play a Harbinger and can't wait to see your guide.

Thanks,
Zanatar.

[McGyverForTehWin]

PreScript: This is turning out to take a lot longer than expected.

Okay, here we go. Let me start by saying that this is how I built my Harbinger and it is by no means definitive. You can build it in many different ways just as good or even better, this is merely a guide to how I created mine and everything I state should be read with that in mind

That said, let me make four notes before we begin:

1) The Triumph -skill (Battle Standard synergy) is broken. Don't invest in it, it does not work. Unless you have the fan-patch installed in which Triumph is fixed in which case you should use it.

2) A Harbinger is a dual wielder pure and simple and for a dual wielder the DPS (Damage Per Second) is paramount. Sacrifice armour, HP, resistance and AD (Average Damage) for AS (Attack Speed) and DPS. Those maces look nice and heavy but don't be fooled by their high damage output: they're slow and will drastically reduce AS.

Let me digress a while:
When DW, AS is calculated by taking the mean of the AS of the weapons. AS for DW is capped at 199% (222% for SW (Single Wield)) meaning that if one weapon has a huge AS bonus (e.g Valor of Achilles) but fairly weak on the damage output and the other weapon is really slow but hard-hitting (e.g Sapros), you get max AS and high damage which equals high DPS.

"So why is DPS so much more important for a DW than AD?"

Because, as I said, a DW has a lot lower survivability than e.g a Conqueror and must therefore focus on reducing mobs quickly. AD gives you an estimate on the damage output (as opposed to damage taken) for a hit but you have to actually hit. DPS gives you an estimate of how much damage you can deal per unit time i.e how fast you strike.

3) Damage. There are a lot of different types of damage in TQ (physical, piercing, vitality, fire, cold, electrical, poison, burn, cold burn, electrical burn, life leech and bleeding) but the word "damage" refers to physical damage.

4) On attribute point distribution: Although Int. does increase elemental damage and elemental damage over time (such as Electrical Burn Damage) there's no way you can invest enough points in it to make it worth your while. A Harbinger needs Str. and Dex, nothing else. I recommend a 3/2 or possibly a 3/1 distribution as you need 385 Dex. to wear Stonebinder Cuffs.

For details about the game mechanics, see this thread:
http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spo...mechanics.html

OK, enoguh of this idle banter!

Genesis: Harbinger lvl 2-7
You begin as level 1 so it's not much point in discussing it. When you reach lvl 2 it's time to choose mastery and start allocating skill and ability points (SP and AP) so before you go it's a good idea to create a target build. Research what kind of weapons your target build will wield and what kind of armour to suit up, make a note of the str/dex requirements (reqs) and go from there. A pretty simple scheme for awarding AP is a 2/3 ratio between dex/str giving you a final amount of (when taking the str/dex modifiers from the skill levels into account) 570/314 str/dex meaning you might want to cut back a bit on the str and boosting dex so you'll end up with 550/334 instead.
In short: Out of ten points (five levels, two points per level, +4 str/dex per point) put six in str and four in dex.

Choose Warfare for your first mastery as this will enable you to build a decent warrior before adding Dream to the mix. Spend one of the first three points on Warfare progression and the other two on Weapon Training and Onslaught. From here in it's pretty simple:
Level 3: Weapon Training, Battle Rage and Onslaught
Level 4: Weapon Training, Onslaught and Warfare progression
Level 5: Weapon Training, Onslaught and Warfare progression
Level 6: Weapon Training, Onslaught and Warfare progression
Level 7: Weapon Training, Onslaught and Dual Wield

Harbinger lvl7

At this point we have a decent warrior prepared for Dual Wield and more than capable of handling himself/herself. You might argue that a lvl7 Warrior is far too weak to handle Dual Wield but that's not completely true and besides, DW is a lot of fun. This will also pay off later in the game when Dream adds damage buffs and Trance of Convalescence (ToC).

EDIT: This paragraph seemd to stir a bit of a controversy whether or not it is better to go for sword-and-shield ("sword" referring to any one-handed weapon) and if dual wield is even worth the trouble so I'll just clarify my view on this.

First of all, let me again repeat what I wrote first: This is how I did it and not the ultimate way of creating the one true Harbinger. This guide should not be regarded as canon. Second: It was a good, long and productive debate with many valuable points made and I recommend you to read it (later in this thread) if you're unsure or new to the game. Third: You will struggle a bit if you choose dual wield early, do not think otherwise. I did it because I like the edge it gives most battles plus the added killing potential Fourth and last: Remember that Harbingers doesn't have any shield skills so prolonged use is not recommended. Dream have quite enough defensive skills once you reach a high enough level.

Let's discuss the Battle Rage (BR) Tree. If you've never played Warfare before this tree looks very nice, especially with its bonuses to Offensive Ability (OA) and damage. However, if you look closely you'll find that it is in fact a big waste of points. Why? Because the two synergies can only be activated when the BR skill is active. Crushing Blow (CB) have a 25% chance of activating and Counter Attack (CA) have a 15% chance of doing the same but BR itself only have an 8% chance. This means that CB have an effective activation chance of 2% and CA only about 1.5% and even then the maximum damage is 217 (CB) and 108 (CA) which is next to nothing in Legendary concidering the low chances of activation and high enemy resistances.

However one point gives you a 1-in-12 chance of a +50% OA bonus which is excellent (because OA determines your ability to cause critical hits). Quiet simply, it's a one point wonder.

Note: Throughout the game you'll receive bouns skill points (a total of 7 per difficulty meaning a grand total of 21 bonus points). Do with these as you please, put them wherever you think it's necessary: it won't affect the outcome. I chose to put the 7 bonus points received during Normal into Warfare skill progression because it receives less "normal" points than Dream.

Darkly Dreaming: Harbinger lvl 8-27
Time to add Dream and truly become a Harbinger. For the next four levels I suggest you put all points into Dream in order to max Lucid Dream asap so begin by investing four points in progression and the add eight points to Lucid Dream, maxing it. This will give you +8 str and +140 HP as well as +28% Physical and +45% Vitality Damage (and +45% Electrical Burn Damage but that's for later). The +28% PD is the most useful (if you at this point cause VD at all it won't be that much) of the three and your DPS will have risen quiet a bit by now. By now you're lvl11.

Over the next three levels, add two points per level to Dream progression, max out Onslaught and add one point in Warfare progression, climbing towards Battle Standard (BS - and yes, I know) and putting you at lvl14. BS is very very useful since it adds +1 to all skills (I don't know whether or not it is to all Warfare skills or all skills in general) and damage absorption and it is rumored that it contains a hidden damage bonus too (maybe Poinas can give you more info on that).

For the next three levels, put two points into Premonition (maxing it out) and three points in Warfare progression, landing you at lvl17. Premonition is nice since it gives you (at lvl6) a +18% bonus to OA and DA - OA ups your chance to cause critical hits and DA reduces the risk of taking the same.

Finally, for the nex fout levels put eight points into progressing Dream towards Temporal Flux, a further two points in Warfare unlocking BS, one point in the BS skill and a second point in DW. Now, Temporal Flux is one of the best warrior skills in the game because it gives you a stunning +12% total speed as well as +15% chance of avoiding projectiles. I don't know whether or not this couples with the Dodge Attack (DAt) skill but avoiding one arrow out of six is not bad, especially not when you go up against Machae Archers in Act IV.

For the next three levels put everything into progressing Dream and Warfare with a 2-to-1 ratio bringing them up to lvl24 and lvl13. I did this because at this time I was one-shoting just about everything I met and when you don't really need to deal more damage you might as well put the points into maintenance. Now you are ready to start maxing Temporal Flux (TF) while continuing to build Warfare so spend another three levles on that bringing Warfare up to lvl16 and TF to lvl6.

Harbinger lvl27

Precautions: Harbinger lvl 28-36
Now it's time to start working on the defence. So far the Harbinger has gotten away with killing everything too fast to get seriously hit but that will change, and fast. The weakness is obvious: the susceptibility to damage and the inability to deal with it must be seen to or your warrior won't survive past Act IV.
For this reason, spend nine levels on maxing out Trance of Convalescense (ToC), DAt and Ignore Pain (IP) plus adding a second point to BS.

(Note that in the build below the 7 bonus points has been added to Warfare progression landing it at lvl23)

Harbinger lvl36

If you have the fan patch you will want to add Triumph to the mix and thus you have to take a slightly different path. Instead of maxing out Dodge Attack, Ignore Pain and Trance of Convalescense add to the Warfare skill tree and put four points in Triumph:

Harbinger lvl36

Juggernaut: Harbinger lvl 37 - 46
The time has come to ascend the warrior throne and assume the aspect of a true Harbinger. Over the next nine levels the focus will lie almost entirely on the Warfare mastery, advancing it almost to completion.

First (at lvl37) add Phantom Strike (PS) and two points in the synergy Dream Stealer (DS) and put it on RMB for fast access. PS is very useful as it teleports you a great distance allowing you to appear and strike in the midst of a mob and in conjunction with DS reducing it to a pile of corpses. The usefulness is obvious: Archers beware!
From here it's pretty straight forward: Max DW, Hew and Cross Cut (CC) while adding 8 points to Warfare progression landing it at lvl 31. At this point you're probably some way into Epic Greece or even in Epic Egypt depending on how much you farm. At any point you'll have at least one bonus skill point awarded so add it to Warfare progression maxing it out.

Harbinger lvl45

If you added Triumph your build will differ somewhat. I sacrificed some points in Hew and the build looks like this:

Harbinger lvl45

Endgame: Harbinger lvl47 and onwards
Now comes an impasse. If you feel that the situation is under control I suggest you spend 15 skill points (five levels) on maxing out the Dream tree, adding on point to Distort Reality and maxing Hamstring. Maxing the Dream tree will give you another 16 points of Str and 280HP plus the possibility to add Temporal Rift to Distort Reality. Hamstring comes in handy as it debuffs and slows enemies in general and archers in particular.

Harbinger lvl50

However, if you feel you need more of a punch max Tumult, Dream Stealer and add three points to Ardor for the increase in AS and movement like this:

Harbinger lvl50

I went with the first option of the two and then spent six levels adding one point each to Ardor, Tumult and Temporal Rift like so:

Harbinger lvl56

And a further two levels and seven bonus points maxing Dream Stealer and Temporal Rift:

Harbinger lvl58

From here it's not much more needed to be said: Max Battle Standard and add the Warhorn tree as you see fit. Neither is essential but both are good to have when farming bosses, especially Ancestral Horn.

Harbinger Endgame

Here's another suggestion at a slightly lower level (lvl65 instead of lvl69) with a rather different focus. This build is more focused on stunning and disrupting the enemy but has good boss-killing abilities and somewhat better defence. Plus, you're likely to attain this level without spending hundreds of hours farming.

Harbinger Endgame

I added a Nightmare with Hypnotic Gaze for disruptin the enemy and Distortion Field for added protection. Battle Standard was drastically debuffed in favour of Triumph and Doom Horn was removed as was Distort Reality.

Congrats, you've got yourself a Harbinger.

On Gear:
Gear. Stuff. Loot. Call it what you want, you need it and you have to get it somehow. The $10.000 question is What&Where and there's no easy answer to that since it usually comes down to what you find rather than what you want.

Let's begin with what you might want:

Sapros is a classic and a good choice for serious damage because of its -63 flat resistance modifier. Another good choice is Thorny Maul with its crazy 50% piercing damage. Sapros can be found by farming anywhere in Legendary although the Hydra and Secret Passage are your best bets along with Polyphemus and Barmanu although I wouldn't recommend farming Barmanu.
Any of the two couples nicely with a Legendary Sabretooth imbued with either an Incarnation of the Valour of Achilles if you get the +35% AS completion bonus or an Incarnation of the Blade of Thanatos if you can get an AS modifier. It's down to how good Stonebinder's you farm and you will want the Stonebinder's (rare green cuffs dropped by Gorgon bosses. The are all but legendary with their +3 to all skills and elemental resistance and if you're lucky you get +35% AS. Insane). Sabretooths can be found wherever there are Tigermen which is about half-through Act III and Stonebinder Cuffs are most likely found farming the Gorgon Sisters or the Minoan Labyrinth around the final Rebirth Fountain.

For torso armour I recommend Mantle of Sa'jun because of its beautiful collection of resistances (pierce, bleeding, elemental, poison, life leech, energy and stun plus entrapment- and freeze reducement and skill disruption protection). Not the highest armour rating though but a nice bonus to DA. Armour of Achilles is another brutal suit I recommend and it's the one I'm currently using. I've only ever found the Mantle of Sa'jun once and that was in Epic Orient plunging through the Jinghe Wetlands so I don't really know where to farm for it. Armour of Achilles can be farmed from the Hydra.

Helmet-wise, Visage of the Shadowlord is a brutal choice due to it's skill bonus and +50% Electrical Burn Damage modifier.
Are's War Helm is also a good choice, as is Kael's Visage

As for greaves, the only real choice is Athena's Battle Greaves because of it's combination of resistances, MS bonus and damage bonus.

When it comes to rings and necklaces just go for completion bonuses like resistances or more damage. Keep in mind that the max +skill bonus is +4 and with Stonebinder's you're already at +3 so it's not much use trying to add more than +1. Two necklaces stand out, the Pendant of Immortal Rage and Myrmidon's Pendant but they are both very hard to find. Both can be found in the Secret Passage and by farming Hades and the Pendant of Immortal Rage can be found by farming the Hydra although it's rare. Ring-wise you might want to look closely at Mark of Ares that can easily be found by farming the Hydra although there are lots of better green rings.

[McGyverForTehWin]

The arguably best class is Conqueror (Warfare + Defence) followed by either Haruspex or Harbinger. I don't have a definitive answer on that one because a Haruspex can focus on either bow or spear but may also be equally proficient with both.
Before Immortal Throne the second best class (and still a very good one, definitley top five) was Oracle (Storm + Spirit).

[Zanatar]

Thank you so much McGyverForTehWin for this guide so far. I hope you don't mind completing it when you have time? ie: Beyond the level 7. This should still last me for quite a awile.

My only question about your guide so far is the part that you say:
"before you go it's a good idea to create a target build. Research what kind of weapons your target build will wield and what kind of armour to suit up, make a note of the str/dex requirements (reqs) and go from there."

The problem is, as I've never played Titan Quest before (this will be my first run through), I really have no concept or grasp as to what to do for a target build. I read a few guides for different classes who say similar things, such as to know what you want for end game equipment and make your character on that. But I have no clue what the end game gear is yet.

Can you advise on that point? Is it just end game gear and weapons that you mean for a Target build? If so, I could use the advice, as again newcomers to the game would not know this stuff.

Anyway I am very greatful for your help so far. This will go along way. And as I mentioned I'm REALLY looking forward to the rest of your guide. If you have the time to complete it that is. If you do, I will PM the moderator's here on this site, to see about getting it stickied, as I'll explain how hard it has been to find anything for a guide for Harbingers. This guide your making could be a welcomed addition to this site I'm hoping.

Thanks, Zanatar.

[nesmar]

I would add warden and spellbreaker to that list, although im new so who knows.

[McGyverForTehWin]

Warden (Hunting + Defence) I know nothing about. I used to have a Spellbreaker (Warfare + Spirit) but she burned pretty badly so it'll be a while before I have another go.

I'll continue the guide later tonight with the dozen or so levels coming up since it involves a lot of Dream.

My only question about your guide so far is the part that you say:
"before you go it's a good idea to create a target build. Research what kind of weapons your target build will wield and what kind of armour to suit up, make a note of the str/dex requirements (reqs) and go from there."

The problem is, as I've never played Titan Quest before (this will be my first run through), I really have no concept or grasp as to what to do for a target build. I read a few guides for different classes who say similar things, such as to know what you want for end game equipment and make your character on that. But I have no clue what the end game gear is yet.

Can you advise on that point?

This is not an easy question to answer. If you want to have a look at end game gear, go to GameBanshee and browse the Legendary equipment database, that'll give you some idea.
However, you don't have to pick out any particular items, just get some idea what str and dex you should be aiming for at lvl65. No, that's not a typo, I wrote 65 not 75. Why? Because you're not likely to reach lvl75. The reason for this is that in order to advance from lvl65 to lvl66 you have to play the through the entire game on Legendary.
As for any particular item, check the forum, read about Harbingers and other DW, browse GameBanshee some more. But keep in mind that reading about a certain item is easy, actually finding it, that's hard. Most of the time you have to make do with what you've got

This is especially true for you since this is your first character meaning that you don't have any farmed items ready to use. So while I was able to equip my Harbinger with Epic items early on you have to make do with what you can find. Plus, you're about to find out two annoying things about farming:

1) You never find warrior gear with warriors, only caster stuff and bows
2) The decent weapons and armour you do find would have been great had you found them five levels ago. Now your green items are far better.

[Poinas]

AS for DW is capped at 188% (199% for SW (Single Wield))

199% for DW and 222% for SW.