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Thread: Onslaught and how it actually works

  1. #11
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    Re: Onslaught and how it actually works

    Well it looks like we are going to see a large list of new "How it really REALLY works threads"

    ..sigh...

  2. #12

    Re: Onslaught and how it actually works

    Quote Originally Posted by Whisk33 View Post
    Well it looks like we are going to see a large list of new "How it really REALLY works threads"

    ..sigh...
    Or how it "should" work...

    Changed "Calculated Strike" to Charge Up similar to Onslaught, each Charge Adds +x% Dmg/+x% piercing/ + x bleeding until the final charge is hit and it unleashes a devastating attack upon the enemy.

    Changed "Lucky Strike" to have a chance of x Bleeding Damage + x% Reduced Resistance for x secs

    Changed "Lethal Strike" to modify the attack by x% dmg/x% pierce/x% poison/x% bleeding and teleport the caster to the target for the attack if caster is at distance.

    Changed "Lay Trap" to randomly summon existing Trap Mob that obeys caster. (Fire/Blade/Ice/Poison)

    Changed "Flash Bomb" to temporarily reduce all effected mobs Offensive Ability and Defensive Ability as well as Fumbling them

    Changed "Disarm Trap" to -x% Dmg from Traps/x% chance to Convert Trap

    I had fun with Rogue Mastery :]

  3. #13
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    Re: Onslaught and how it actually works

    Onslaught works exactly as it's described. How the hell are you guys making up this double % stuff?

    Its very simple to test this out.
    I took off all my gear. and bought a crappy white weapon.
    i have 3 levels in onslaught (lv1 10%, lvl 2 15%, lvl 3 19%)
    I know it's not lvl 8 or 12 but even testing at level 3 will show how it works.

    my average damage in the char window is 39 (weapon is 20-35, so i guess strength is adding to the damage). (this is just a basic white weapon so there's no bonus damages, bleed, poison to worry about)

    if we follow the description, the first hit is 10%, second is 15%, third is 19%.
    thus my damage should scale from base 39 to 42.9 then 44.85 then 46.41 at level 3.
    if i calculate what the first poster says, my damage should loook like this.
    first its base damage, then first hit is +19% then after a few more hits i'll be up to +38% damage.
    using the same weapon above it'll be 39 -> 46.41 -> 53.82


    Real test:
    went out and killed some guys and checked my damage every swing
    My average damage went from 39 -> 42 -> 44 -> 45.
    Thus its OBVIOUS that the description is correct. in fact its doing a little bit LESS damage than the math, which is probably due to strength being worked into the equation somewhere.


    So please please....tell me how you guys are coming up with these ridiculous numbers cause its seems **** obvious to me that the description is right on.

  4. #14
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    Re: Onslaught and how it actually works

    I used the log program mentioned in this thread and took a good size chunk of data and went through it just to double check as someone mentioned the character window not being a good source of info. well it is accurate and the log only proves to me more that without a doubt the description of onslaught is exactly how the skill works. first hit is 10% and it builds up from there ( up to 50% on your 8th swing assuming you have level 8 of the skill)

  5. #15

    Re: Onslaught and how it actually works

    Well, since you're replying to a thread that's almost two years old, maybe this was fixed in a patch since then? Maybe?

  6. #16
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    Re: Onslaught and how it actually works

    don't forget, onslaught works with BOWs too!

  7. #17
    Olympian God Violos's Avatar
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    Ok. After some testing, I think I finally figured out how this type of skill really, really works.
    And again the truth, once found, is simple:

    The linear charges work as they should. While it lasts, every level of charge gives its bonus corresponding to the skill's values at that level. So a charge level 3 is a temporary buff that grants everything the tooltip says at skill level 3.

    However, the attack itself also gets the full effect of the skill because, besides the charging, it behaves just like a regular, non-charging weapon skill. For some reason this was not removed. And, both physical damage effects being %, they add.


    So presume you had a skill giving 10% damage per level/charge, at level 5. You will get:
    Charge Level 0: 50% + 0% --> 50%
    Charge Level 1: 50% + 10% --> 60%
    Charge Level 2: 50% + 20% --> 70%
    Charge Level 3: 50% + 30% --> 80%
    Charge Level 4: 50% + 40% --> 90%
    Charge Level 5: 50% + 50% --> 100%

    That explains the "starts out at max charge and doubles" pattern which was observed before. It is the expected result when the maximum charge level equals the skill level, as it is the case with Onslaught.



    When making new skills with the skill_weaponpool_chargedlinear template, however, the maximum reachable charge ("SkillChargeLevel") can be set independently for every level of the skill. And now that we know the true mechanics, we can play with this:

    Allowing only a single level of charge, for example, but more levels in the skill, creates a normally behaving bonus-per-skillpoint skill with an additional on/off buff with effects corresponding to its first level - which could add nothing at all, if that first level is set to grant no bonus, while the attack still has effects from later levels. But you can use that timed charge to have some visual effect remaining after an attack. Or, more importantly, some buff/debuff that you cannot have on any normal (momentary) weapon attack!

    Limiting the charges to any number lower than the skill's max (say, allowing one extra charge every 2 levels) lessens the damage increase gained through consecutive attacks, giving hard points a greater influence on the overall strength.
    You can even allow a number of charges above the maximum learnable level of the skill, in order to get mainly charge effects, but a lower base boost from hard points.

    The downside is that all of those tricks will mess up the (dumb) automatic skill tooltips, which will stop updating at whichever limit is lower. Though I, for one, find that a small price to pay, because the possibilities of all this will be invaluable in recreating the Barb and Assassin skills.
    EDIT: And they were. Check out D2I to see them in action.

    This works with all damage types, btw. Any speed bonuses, however, are not doubled.
    - They belong to the group of buffs that simply do not work in a weapon attack skill, so you only get the effect in the charges.

    Other effects that come from skill modifiers (Hamstring) would need more testing, but should follow the same pattern.
    Last edited by Violos; 12-24-2012 at 06:13 PM. Reason: updated

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violos View Post
    It works with all damage types. Any speed boni, however, are not doubled.
    - They belong to the group of buffs that simply do not work in a weapon attack skill, so you only get the effect in the charges.
    That seems (according to the tests i made) to be true for all parameters (defensive, character, retaliation) except the offensive parameters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violos View Post
    Other effects that come from skill modifiers (Hamstring) would need more testing, but should follow the same pattern.
    As you might have notices, the %speed- and %resistance-bonuses of Ardor and Ignore Pain are given after you hit the first time with Onslaught. The given amount matches the skilled level. But that seems to be an functionality of the skill modifiers, because when I gave the same sort of bonus to the main ChargeLinear-Skill (here Onslaught), the given bonuses are charged with every hit.

    To sum up (and to check if I understood it right):

    How ChargedLinear-Skills like Onslaught work:

    1) The character gets offensive bonuses of the main skill and its skill modifiers appropriate to the skilled level when he attacks with this skill.
    Here (skilled at maximum): 50% damage (Onslaught), 28% reduced DA, 28 armor and 35% slower movement (Hamstring)

    2) The character is buffed with all bonuses of the main skill (=ChargedLinear-Skill) appropriate to the charged level and with the first hit.
    Here (charged at level 1): 10% damage

    3) The character is buffed with all bonuses of skill modifiers appropriate to the skilled level and with the first hit.
    Here (skilled at maximum): 15% damage and pierce resistance (Ignore Pain), 28% reduced DA, 28 armor and 35% slower movement (Hamstring), 16% movement and attack speed (Ardor)

    Therefore, you reduce the enemies DA by 28% with the first hit (see #1), and already with the second hit you reduce it by 56% (see #1+3).

    best
    Handballfreak

  9. #19
    Olympian God Violos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handballfreak View Post
    That seems (according to the tests i made) to be true for all parameters (defensive, character, retaliation) except the offensive parameters.
    That sounds logical... though I don't know if the game groups them in the same way the ArtManager does. Did you test them all? I never did that systematically.

    But yes, it's safe to assume that all those that do not work on other weapon attacks also do not work here, since it really is just a combination of that with a buff.

    The catch is that things like increased OA are among those things, even though that is clearly "offensive" and could apply to the hit just like any momentary +% damage does. And I believe I've seen that on attack skills in some mods. Good thing I checked those, at least.


    As for your list, I think 2) and 3) are the same. You get the aura with the values of level 1 after the first hit, and the modifiers add their full amount to that level 1 already.


    And here...
    because when I gave the same sort of bonus to the main ChargeLinear-Skill (here Onslaught), the given bonuses are charged with every hit
    ...you probably scaled that bonus throughout the levels, no?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violos View Post
    That sounds logical... though I don't know if the game groups them in the same way the ArtManager does. Did you test them all? I never did that systematically.
    Yes, it sounds logical. And no, I didn't test them all. I just take a few parameters representative for the groups shown in the Art Manager. The rest might be logical thinking and the hope that it is like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violos View Post
    As for your list, I think 2) and 3) are the same. You get the aura with the values of level 1 after the first hit, and the modifiers add their full amount to that level 1 already.
    Not really, but I can rewrite it as follows to fit the two aspects of buff and attack:
    a) All offensive parameters are doubled at the direct weapon attack with that skill. It doesn't matter, if they are on the skill itself or modifiers, because the bonusses are always appropriate to the skilled level.
    b) The character gets a buff after the first weapon hit. As long as this buff is active/charged, the character gets bonusses of all parameters. The bonusses are appropriate to the charged level of the skill itself and the skilled levels of the modifiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Violos View Post
    ...you probably scaled that bonus throughout the levels, no?
    Yes, I did. Otherwise it wouldn't be charged/changed.

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