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View Full Version : game going to be too ez?



kwilson0101
06-19-2006, 08:17 PM
I might be completely wrong so u guys will let me know right away ...

If i heard right then u can take whatever skills u wasted and get them back by paying a certain npc a certain amount of gold... unlike diablo where u had to tough it out through certain lvls because once u used them thats it. You had to save up for that lvl 30 skill. This game it seems like u can use all ur skills on lower skills and have it ez earlier on then take back those and waste them where u want them

again i could be completely wrong on this so sorry if i am

Matheau
06-19-2006, 08:55 PM
There is a big difference though. The majority of skills in Diablo 2 were worthless or inferior to higher level skills. That isn't difficulty, that is poor skill balance.

mdexter2
06-19-2006, 09:06 PM
The game will be anything but too easy on the higher difficulties so you may end up being very thankful that you can redo some skills. It may prove very helpful for surviving and finishing the game.

RyanPaul
06-19-2006, 09:12 PM
From everything we have heard, this game will be harder than Diablo II. Of course this could be pre-release hype, but I doubt it.

mdexter2
06-19-2006, 09:17 PM
From everything we have heard, this game will be harder than Diablo II. Of course this could be pre-release hype, but I doubt it.

I doubt it too. They've had people testing the full game that have found out rather quickly, just how hard Legendary can be.

Phyrex
06-19-2006, 11:06 PM
Anything below brutal isn't good enough. :rockon:
I hope legendary difficulty also requires a lot more tactics/strategy than just point and click in order to beat the game.
From what I've read this will be the case. *yay*

mdexter2
06-19-2006, 11:12 PM
Anything below brutal isn't good enough. :rockon:
I hope legendary difficulty also requires a lot more tactics/strategy than just point and click in order to beat the game.
From what I've read this will be the case. *yay*

I don't think you'll be disappointed if what I've been reading about the game has been interpreted correctly on my part. :)

d24e
06-20-2006, 02:38 PM
Oh please, this game will be a walk in the park if you play it right. Use perfect builds skills wise and do bossruns to blue/green out your equip. There's nothing difficult about hack and slash, it just takes time to max out your character.
Ofcourse if you rush through the game, killing every boss once so you can advance to high level zones with mid level gear, then it'll be tough and you'll die a lot.

Killa John
06-20-2006, 02:52 PM
From what I understand, the game will progress steadily while providing you with moderate challenges so you will have to pay attention and actually play the game. The game won't be as easy as some people think until you twink out low-level characters with the best gear for their level, just like it was with Diablo 2. I have the utmost confidence that the guys at IronLore will provide a most satisfying challenge, especially in Legendary difficulty.

TQ4E!!!1 :rockon:

Srikandi
06-20-2006, 03:39 PM
Oh please, this game will be a walk in the park if you play it right. Use perfect builds skills wise and do bossruns to blue/green out your equip. There's nothing difficult about hack and slash, it just takes time to max out your character.

The kicker in your post is "if you play it right". Of course, any game is easy "if you play it right". But playing it right requires skill.

This brings up the age-old question of what constitutes "skill" in gaming. FPS players tend to equate skill with physical skills, especially fast reflexes. But that is not the only type of skill that's relevant.

In particular, "using perfect builds" requires the skill to figure out a successful build. That I think is the skill most TQ players are going to be interested in.

Even if you get builds from elsewhere instead of developing your own (less fun), you still need the skill to evaluate the builds on offer and pick a good one.

From what some people have said, reflexes are also going to be important at the harder difficulty levels. That means the ability to pick the best attack for a given situation and use it fast enough.

Of course with repetition and practice -- using the same build on the same map over and over -- this can become trivial for anybody. That's also true of all games; everybody learns with practice. Skill differential shows up when you get it right (or don't) the first time through.

If it takes time to max out your character, then the game is difficult. If you can do it right away, it's easy. Difficulty in games ALWAYS comes down to time. Even in twitch games, it comes down to time... time to practice the moves, since practice is what makes it possible to execute them faster. That's the way human learning works: neural pathways that have been traversed before are quicker to traverse the next time. A skilled player will have a faster learning curve, and an unskilled player will have a slower one, but in the end with enough practice everybody gets there. Assuming, of course, they're having enough fun to keep trying.

Phyrex
06-20-2006, 03:56 PM
Hey Srikandi! Leave some for me. :(
Guess I'll comment on the last quote bit. :whistle:



Ofcourse if you rush through the game, killing every boss once so you can advance to high level zones with mid level gear, then it'll be tough and you'll die a lot.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that the way the game SHOULD be played?

Yeah if you want an easy game go ahead and kill Nessus for a full week and you'll have plenty of DPS to advance very fast/easy afterwards. But overall you will advance much slower than someone who just advances when he can.
It's like saying "I'll stay in school for 20 years because it's easier". Wtf how dumb is that...


It's not called rushing through the game. It's simply not slacking. :silenced:

Ari
06-20-2006, 04:06 PM
If you play the game normally, the way its meant to be played, it shouldnt be easy...

bildo84
06-20-2006, 04:42 PM
The developers may be trumpeting their own horn (I hope not), but they state they're aiming for an overall much more difficult game than D2, especially on the higher levels. Thank god there's no corpse running. :)

DaveyJJ
06-20-2006, 05:33 PM
And just wait for some of the more challenging custom quests. I'm sure someone will go all out to make one as difficult as possible just to see who might survive.

Calienon
06-20-2006, 05:39 PM
Wow Srikandi! I feel smarter now :) (no wonder you won a free copy of TQ) :)

DieAlteHexe
06-25-2006, 09:25 PM
*sneaks in and pokes Bildo*

This is worrying me a bit, all this talk about "more difficult than Diablo" because I've gotta say I'm not a particularly good gamer...e.g. I'm uh, well, not very good at games but I sure have fun trying. Then again, I'm not going to freak out because this game looks so great that I don't care if I suck at it. :lol:

Oh, my manners, heh. Hello all, I followed Bildo over here from AA so it's all his fault. :p

-Chi


The developers may be trumpeting their own horn (I hope not), but they state they're aiming for an overall much more difficult game than D2, especially on the higher levels. Thank god there's no corpse running. :)

Lillis
06-25-2006, 10:32 PM
I'm a big fan of speedruns (although I don't do it myself, since when I play games I want to have each and every corner explored, heh), and I just can't wait until someone does a speedrun on TQ, should prove to be rather difficult, if at all possible?

ScottyBones
06-25-2006, 11:30 PM
And just wait for some of the more challenging custom quests. I'm sure someone will go all out to make one as difficult as possible just to see who might survive.


That's exactly what I was thinking. Once the game is finished, its actually just begun thanks to the editor. I can't wait until d24e makes us a "challenging" custom quest. Besides, this game should have alot of replayability given all of the possible combinations of the masteries.

ScottyBones
06-25-2006, 11:33 PM
Oh, my manners, heh. Hello all, I followed Bildo over here from AA so it's all his fault.

Welcome aboard DieAlteHexe!:clap:

bildo84
06-25-2006, 11:33 PM
*sneaks in and pokes Bildo*

This is worrying me a bit, all this talk about "more difficult than Diablo" because I've gotta say I'm not a particularly good gamer...e.g. I'm uh, well, not very good at games but I sure have fun trying. Then again, I'm not going to freak out because this game looks so great that I don't care if I suck at it. :lol:

Oh, my manners, heh. Hello all, I followed Bildo over here from AA so it's all his fault. :p

-Chi

Welcome to the best darn forum for TQ, Chi. Can't for you, yer hubby and I to get into the MP and wreck havoc. I really wouldn't worry about how difficult the game is. I think what they mean by it being more difficult is it will be much harder to avoid death when you get swamped. But death, unlike Diablo, is much more lenient here.

You lose no items, cash or anything, and just have to retrek from where your last spawn-fountain was. The only annoyance with death is the trek back to where you had gotten, but even those are relatively short. Overall, this aspect of TQ makes it much better than D2. So worry not about sucking, and when in doubt take Nature as a secondary mastery for the healing and buffs. :p

Voqar
06-26-2006, 02:41 AM
In my opinion, being able to respec your skills has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. It simply allows you to have fun with fewer characters rather than forcing you to start over again from scratch if you make one bad decision in your character's build. It also frees you up from lots of unrealistic and tedious pre-planning for developing your character. Ie, you can make a mistake and recover from it instead of using 20 fansites to research a "perfect build" or using someone else's guides before even playing.

Not all players want to play the same game (D2) with a perfectly built character doing loot runs thousands of times.


I might be completely wrong so u guys will let me know right away ...

If i heard right then u can take whatever skills u wasted and get them back by paying a certain npc a certain amount of gold... unlike diablo where u had to tough it out through certain lvls because once u used them thats it. You had to save up for that lvl 30 skill. This game it seems like u can use all ur skills on lower skills and have it ez earlier on then take back those and waste them where u want them

again i could be completely wrong on this so sorry if i am

Speaking of difficulty...is it really that difficult to spell out simplistic words like "you" or knowing when to use "your" versus using "you're"? Pet peeve of mine, I guess. I have a hard time taking people that use "u" and "ur" seriously since they come across as uneducated and lazy barbarians. "Ur" was a city in Mesopotamia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur) - leave it at that, please.

ratsnake
06-26-2006, 02:41 AM
I think this game is suffering from the fact you can get unlimited money by selling your loot.
The loot you gather is always identified so you can pretty much guess what will sell for alot, and throw out your "cracked clubs of self delapidation." Once you have this "skill" of picking out stuff to cram into your inventory bags, you can pretty much have an invincible character with one of those CamelBaks™ feeding you potion juice intravenously. I remember playing Fable the same way, just maxing out on money and buying hundreds of potions. Then you can just mash the potion key..and since potion drinking (or maybe you smash the bottles all over yourself) is not interrupted, you will never die.
Another problem I have with the difficulty is the fact that equipment lasts forever. What is the point of getting 3-5 items from every fly you kill when you will never need it. I'd love to have rapidly wasting armor and weapons so I am forced to try different weapons, skills, even rejuggle my abilities, since equipment does not last. Please point me how to develop upon my ideas

zeroburrito
06-26-2006, 05:41 AM
You can buy your pet skills to max and then cast your pets. Then respec to something else and you will have your pets with you. This also works when you get a mastery rune. Cast your summons for the higher level and they will stay that way till they die. Respec really isnt that expensive, especially in epic and beyond when money flows out of your ears.

Srikandi
06-26-2006, 06:19 AM
Money will probably be too easy to accumulate. It is in almost every rpg out there, except the MMOs which go out of their way to provide money sinks to keep you poor.

IMO the best option for the money problem, never yet implemented in a game AFAIK, would just be to have a tax system that would remove money from your pockets at a steady rate, so you had to keep accumulating gold just to stay even :) j/k of course, I'm sure it would be wildly unpopular, but it is the only real solution to the problem.

As for repairs, I'm personally delighted that they left that out. The games that include it generally do so only as a not-too-effective money sink. It doesn't REALLY lead to people trying different weapons, since you can portal to town at any time to get your stuff fixed. It's really just an annoyance IMO.

TenYearsGone
06-26-2006, 11:20 AM
I think what they mean by it being more difficult is it will be much harder to avoid death when you get swamped. But death, unlike Diablo, is much more lenient here.

You lose no items, cash or anything, and just have to retrek from where your last spawn-fountain was. The only annoyance with death is the trek back to where you had gotten, but even those are relatively short. Overall, this aspect of TQ makes it much better than D2. So worry not about sucking, and when in doubt take Nature as a secondary mastery for the healing and buffs. :p

IIRC, there is an experience penalty for death. It won't go to a level penalty but you will lose XP at higher levels. With the demo capped at lvl 6, we didn't run into this issue.

Also according to the Devs, you'll reach the lvl cap at 65 midway through the hardest difficultly level. Compare this to D2 where you could complete the game at lvl 85, give or take (max level is 99 for the few that don't know). Think of how hard the Act V Hell would be if you were level capped at 75. And I recall the devs saying that the least amount of deaths to complete all three difficulty levels from people within their office was about 3. No 'hardcore guardians' there.

Of course we won't know the real challenge until we start playing it!

frankenparrot
06-26-2006, 11:40 AM
Money is money in all games. Will you ever have too much, probably. But, from an item that I bought in the demo, I am glad I had the money. It cost me about 10k from a vendor. If this is at the beginning of the game, then I am sure that later on, there is going to be some serious money dropping at a vendor. And yes, I was surprised to see my armor there. :)

desnok214
06-26-2006, 11:48 AM
I do think there should be more money sinks, at least from what I have seen. Durability/repair, gambling (I know I'll get an epic next time!), loss of gold on death, etc.

Lillis
06-26-2006, 12:59 PM
Wow, will there be a gambling possibility in TQ? Or were you saying that that was one of the things missing? Gambling was one of the really great features of D2, IMHO.

TenYearsGone
06-26-2006, 01:52 PM
No gambling at this point - sry.

Gorkk
06-26-2006, 02:32 PM
IIRC, there is an experience penalty for death. It won't go to a level penalty but you will lose XP at higher levels. With the demo capped at lvl 6, we didn't run into this issue.
Yeah, and it's really noticeable at level 45... (one death and I lose nearly 1/8th of my level or so).

As for maxing the pet, casting it, reallocating points, yeah, it's possible. But you better have huge amount of money and earn a lot as well, as the cost to buy back skill increases with each skill you buy back :whistle:

Ragefist
06-26-2006, 02:39 PM
Gorkk, glad to hear that some loss is incured through death penalty and that skill points costs increasing amounts to undo.

Concerning gambling: ITs sort of like gambling every time you look in the shop. I've seen some of my best rares in the shop in the demo. D2 never had rares in the shop. This was, however, a cool Diablo 1 feature. I always wanted better stuff in the store in D2... nice to take a look when you are selling/repairing.

zeroburrito
06-26-2006, 03:24 PM
Considering i have about 7 million at lvl 36 and with each respec point costing 45k its not too bad =>. Though it seems only the spirit lich pet is worth having in epic difficulty as the nymph seems to do little damage against quite a few mobs.