TQ Character Builder

[rmkincaide]

Over the past few days I've begun development on a Character Builder for TQ (think something along the lines of this (http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View&category_select_id=8) or this (http://swg.allakhazam.com/db/charbuild.html)). I plan on there being both a web-based and offline standalone version, and if I could find proper hosting I'd like to have character builds be submittable online as well as be rated and commented on by other users.

I have a few questions I'd like to ask the blossoming TQ community:


Would there be interest in a program of this sort (or am I the only one that spends as much or more time planning and developing character builds as I do playing the game :D )?
Does anyone know the legal limitations of using artwork from the game other than what was provided to us in the Fan Site Kit packages (artwork captured from screenshots, for example)?
Does anyone know of a suitable place for a project like this to be hosted?


Thoughts, questions, suggestions, and comments are all appreciated.

June 26th is so close, yet so far away :)

[DaveyJJ]

Host it on Sourceforge. It's where many of the indie developers hang their projects out.

[Phyrex]

Would there be interest in a program of this sort (or am I the only one that spends as much or more time planning and developing character builds as I do playing the game :D )?


You're not the only one. :lol: I played WoW for about a year and I wouldn't be lying *that* much if I said half of that time I spend looking at the talents, figuring out builds and all the other stuff (forum) besides actual playtime. ^_^

Personally I would really like a similar system for TQ.
Good initiative!

[RyanPaul]

I think its a nice idea in theory.

The problem I see is that its going to be hard to create anything meaningful, since calculating your DPS and such will be totally arbitrary until you know what sort of equipment a character will have.

In most hack-and-slash RPG's, character equipment ends up meaning just as much, or sometimes more, than the skills you take on a given build, or the order in which you take them.

I'm not dissing the conept. I'm just saying that some serious thought is going to have to go into this idea to make it a meaningful way to design a character.

[rmkincaide]

RyanPaul: I agree with you. Considering the amount and variety of equipment that'll be available in TQ, I doubt equipment will ever be something I'd attempt to incorporate into a character builder.

I do hope to incorporate, among other things, the ability to specify amount of available skill and attribute points (for someone that wants to build something other than a normal level 65 character with 204 skill points (192[base]+ 4*3[additional points from quests for every difficulty]), perhaps for custom mod purposes). I also plan on including a summary of active skills and their overall effects including modifiers from other skills, a summary of the total bonuses granted by passive skills grouped by bonus type (+ defensive ability, +% attack speed, etc), and a summary of attributes (health, energy, str, int, and dex) that takes into account starting attribute values, attribute points spent, and class attribute bonuses granted for advancements in mastery level (up to level 32).

Are there any other features people can think of that they might like to see implemented?

[Matheau]

I really don't think it would be worth the time to make. It isn't going to be overly hard for someone to make a hacked character file at level 99 with undistributed skill points and masteries for trying out builds. The program would probably be more efficient for trying out builds, but I don't really think to the point that it would be worth the amount of time to research the exact values for every skill in the game and program it.

It would be neat, certainly, but testing builds isn't going to be that overly hard. People released hacked characters for the demo to test builds with, it is a pretty good bet that will be the case with the main game.

[rmkincaide]

I can see how the idea of hex editing a character to test builds may appeal to some, but it would ruin the experience for me. There's something about planning a character and playing through the game's progression as the developers intended that I find extremely satisfying. Sure, they're really just 1s and 0s, but knowing that I earned every experience point, gold piece, and item on a character makes the entire game far more meaningful and enjoyable for me.

My whole schpiel is that I'm a Comp Sci major who wants to keep practicing programming over the summer months when I'm not attending class. Programming is a labor of love for me, and the more experience I can get doing it, the better. This definitely beats some of the programming projects I've had to do during my college career, and is an enjoyable, if slightly masochistic, way of getting more familiar with the game before I finally get to play it.

I spent some time yesterday beginning the skill database I'll be using, and I was able to complete two of the eight trees. As I went through each skill and recorded its appropriate data, I definitely gained a new-found appreciation for how much effort Iron Lore must have done to develop and balance the skills and trees. I also have to give mad props to them for how well Titan Quest runs in windowed mode, even on the meager PC I'm using over the weekend. Well done! :D

[Srikandi]

rmkincaide -- I think it's a great idea. I'll use it :)

[Matheau]

I can see how the idea of hex editing a character to test builds may appeal to some, but it would ruin the experience for me. There's something about planning a character and playing through the game's progression as the developers intended that I find extremely satisfying. Sure, they're really just 1s and 0s, but knowing that I earned every experience point, gold piece, and item on a character makes the entire game far more meaningful and enjoyable for me.

It would do exactly the same thing as an external program. The only difference is that it would always be accurate, since obviously any patches that alter abilities are in game. I'm not saying just cheat to play through the game, but to see what abilities you can get with that many skill points that mesh well.

[rmkincaide]

It would do exactly the same thing as an external program. The only difference is that it would always be accurate, since obviously any patches that alter abilities are in game. I'm not saying just cheat to play through the game, but to see what abilities you can get with that many skill points that mesh well.

Ahh, I think I misinterpreted what you meant by testing builds, assuming that you meant playtesting a character with maxed skills to see how they worked. I don't have an issue with looking at skill progressions beforehand (like many, I'm using an edited character to do that in the demo for now), only with allowing myself to playtest the upper-tier skills without earning them. This is entirely a personal preference, similar to my tendancy towards avoiding movie trailers or game screenshots if I haven't already seen the movie or played the game. I'm weird like that. :)

From what I can tell, the time spent updating a few values in a skill database every time a TQ patch comes out will be miniscule compared to the initial work that needs to go into developing a character builder, so I don't see TQ patches being much of a bother for me.

[StarGypsy]

I think it's a great idea and would probably spend way too much time using it...

From what I understand Iron Lore made it much harder to hack characters in the retail version. (good for them btw)

[rmkincaide]

Just my luck that a skill database (http://titanquestvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Skills.List) would show up online the day after I finished my own :knockout: At any rate, I'm done with the tedious stuff and get to do some actual programming now. Some good news in that Theo (http://www.titanquest.net/members/theo.html) has shown interest in my project, so my current plans are to host the character builder right here on titanquest.net :clap:

I've decided to trim the feature set by removing the attribute points altogether and concentrating on the skill trees. In place of the attribute points, I'm hoping for something (potentially) far cooler: full integration with our logins here at titanquest.net. After a titanquest.net user finishes designing a build using the character builder, they could have the option of submitting the build to a build database. During that process, they'd be able to give their build a unique name and, if they desired, a custom description telling the world just how swiftly their build is able to de-feather harpies. Their unique build would then be available in the build database where other users could rate the build, comment on it, or perhaps open it in the character builder themselves and fine-tune their own variation for submission. The whole build database idea could also include adding some fun new stats tied to our accounts.. just imagine it:


Last Activity: Today 7:06 PM
Posts: 213
Builds Submitted: 8
Builds Rated: 34
Highest-Rated Build Submitted: Teh Feathar Plukkar v2.0! (Brigand [H/R]) (Avg 8.23/10)


.. Some kind soul out there will tell me when I've gone too far, won't they? :whistle:

[mdexter2]

.. Some kind soul out there will tell me when I've gone too far, won't they? :whistle:

Not a problem. It's one of my specialties. :cool:

[Calienon]

You know what would be phenomenally awesome rmkincaide? It would be awesome if, after desigining a build with your build creator, we could select from say 10 preset weapon/armor choices, and your program would simulate that character build (with equipment) fighting certain monsters to give a summary of performance (doesn't even need to show graphics, just needs to know the numbers for some monsters in varying difficulties, and how a battle would progress, so it can crunch the numbers an give an output):). Example:

Say someone made some kind of Conjurer (Spirit/Earth) build. They could then load it into some kind of "Build Tester" that would allow them to select from some preset equipment to equip them, then run a behind the scenes number crunching simulation where the build battles a monster (like a harpy) it then outputs something like "Conjurer build #1 defeats harpy in .5 seconds with 0 damage taken" or "Conjurer build #1 dies with Harpy 50 % dead".

Would you be able to do that rmkincaide? (I'm assuming you'd have to get some details on the monsters' stats though):)

[Hellspawn]

Awesome idea RMK! I would use it. I think it would still be very useful without taking equipment into account.

[Killa John]

I spent many hours at work playing with the WoW talent calculators ... I would definately use on for TQ

[Attila265]

yes there would be high interest!
and it cant be difficult to find a hoster.. maybe tq vault ? or event titanquest.net ? there are some more possibilities..

[rmkincaide]

Calienon: That'd be a fun addition, and would definitely be something I'd consider looking into somewhere down the road. It sounds like those of us who are overly obsessed with numbers will be happy campers (http://www.titanquest.net/questions-developers/837-question-skill-cooldowns.html) when the game ships.

Attila265: Once I'm further along, Theo (forum administrator) will be creating a page here on titanquest.net where I'll be able to iframe the java applet I'm making. Let's hope I don't spend all my free time playing the game instead of finishing the character builder once TQ comes out ;)