For the love of god.... PANTS PLEASE

[Cambios]

This question was not answered accurately in the dev chat:



[IL] Tom Potter: Question: HHg|1GA|Ef.Velevskiy: Why are there no pants?

Answer: Because we prefer shorts


Unfortunately, TQ doesn't even have shorts... it has skirts. :(

How about some decent looking armor that doesn't involve a skirt?

[FrAnK t3h BuNnY]

titanquest people are secure enuff in there masculinity to wear skirts

[Azuriel]

Back in those days pants didn't exist!

[shiverNZ]

damn... those musta been good days! :D

[trevah]

Enjoy the loving, ever-so-flowing-breeziness the skirt has to offer. And the quick access! No more getting caught with your pants down.

[Luciferos]

This question was not answered accurately in the dev chat:



Unfortunately, TQ doesn't even have shorts... it has skirts. :(

How about some decent looking armor that doesn't involve a skirt?

These are the ancient Greeks you're talking about. The ancient Greeks didn't wear full plate. What, are they gonna warp about 3000 years into the future when there was such a thing as Knight armor or something?

[Marine OKeefe]

The Japanese had full plate armor in the same age as the game takes place :p

[Qilue]

The Japanese had full plate armor in the same age as the game takes place :p

No they didn't. I estimate TQ takes place around 500-400BC and at that time, Japan wasn't yet really much of a civilization and was comparable to that of the british isles around the time of the first roman invasions.

But besides that, japanese armour has been of a lamellar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamellar_armour) type for much of it's history and only started changing to "plate" due to european influences.

[Cambios]

Um.

People weren't casting fireballs during the time of Ancient Greece, so the whole historical realism argument falls flat compared to the "DO WHAT IS FUN AND LOOKS COOL" argument.

Tons of weapons wouldn't make sense historically either, but they are cool so thank god they were put in the game.

[Luciferos]

Regardless of the fireballs, most of the armors and weapons are pretty close to realistic styles of weaponry and style of the time. Fun and looks cool wouldn't make sense when the game's set in that time period of greek mythology, and remember the greeks did believe in magical beasts. Every creature in the game except a couple are rooted in greek mythology.

They wore tunics, not pants.

They wore chest armor and shields and had swords and mace style weapons.

When the greeks took over egypt, they weren't wearing Knights armor.

[mlaird]

Back in those days pants didn't exist!
pants do exist, but only those barbarian Persians wear them...

[mlaird]

ps, try running from Athens to Marathon in metal pants

[Cambios]

Regardless of the fireballs, most of the armors and weapons are pretty close to realistic styles of weaponry and style of the time. Fun and looks cool wouldn't make sense when the game's set in that time period of greek mythology, and remember the greeks did believe in magical beasts. Every creature in the game except a couple are rooted in greek mythology.


Except for 2/3rds of the game that has nothing to do with Greek Mythology, right?

And you can't just say "regardless of the fireballs."

Are you also going to say "regardless of the transparent green Ether Blade and Ptolemy Shield."

There are TONS of weapons that make absolutely ZERO historical sense, but they are very cool and I'm glad they have them.

Some armor that doesn't look like a dress would be nice too.

There were certainly leg armors in Egypt and the whole of Asia - even during this time period. But more importantly, pure historical accuracy is not a laudable goal - something IL realized when they decided to have magic spells, demonic summoning, and lots of cool weapons.

[rahnefan]

Except for 2/3rds of the game that has nothing to do with Greek Mythology, right?

Dude, I sympathize, but it's Titan Quest, regardless of the Egyptian and Asian locales. It's an ancient Greek thang. Skirts are one of the most recognizable things we associate with the period, whether it makes sense or not. Add pants and you lose ancient Greece.

[Cambios]

Dude, I sympathize, but it's Titan Quest, regardless of the Egyptian and Asian locales. It's an ancient Greek thang. Skirts are one of the most recognizable things we associate with the period, whether it makes sense or not. Add pants and you lose ancient Greece.

1) Adding pants wouldn't "lose" Ancient Greece.

2) To any extent that it would, you already would have "lost it" with the fireballs, the demon and fire elemental summoning, etc.

3) You can't just say "regardless" to 2/3rds of the freakin' game. What is with this overuse of the word "regardless" to discount enormous flaws with the counter arguments to "hey, its historical Greece!" Um, no it isn't. It has some historical Ancient Greek inspirations, but that's it. They clearly don't dominate every aspect of the game, so why should they dominate with these idiotic, horrible looking skirts?

[rahnefan]

1) Adding pants wouldn't "lose" Ancient Greece.

2) To any extent that it would, you already would have "lost it" with the fireballs, the demon and fire elemental summoning, etc.

3) You can't just say "regardless" to 2/3rds of the freakin' game. What is with this overuse of the word "regardless" to discount enormous flaws with the counter arguments to "hey, its historical Greece!" Um, no it isn't. It has some historical Ancient Greek inspirations, but that's it. They clearly don't dominate every aspect of the game, so why should they dominate with these idiotic, horrible looking skirts?

1. Yeah, it really would.
2. Nope. The skirt thing is signature of the style we associate with the period.
3. Yes I can. It's my professional opinion as a designer, anyway, but what do I know. The point is NOT to make it historical Greece; it's to be a fantasy game based on Greek mythology. Artists and designers have used the skirt thing without exception, and it works. You don't mess with what works.

[looty]

I think somebody has already made a mod that adds pants. Go check the modding forum.

[mlaird]

I googled a little on greeks & pants to back up my claim that the ancient Greeks did not like pants, let alone wear them
from: http://www.iranian.com/History/2006/July/Persia/index.html
"Interestingly enough, the ancient Greeks made considerable mockery of the quote-on-quote, Men wearing pants, even depicting the Achaemenid Persians, and Scythians wearing ultra-tight pants on their artworks."

wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers

I also found the phrase "Euripides Pants, Eumenides now" lol

[Xen]

we need no pants here :smug:

[Cambios]

1. Yeah, it really would.


Nope.



2. Nope. The skirt thing is signature of the style we associate with the period.


Nope. I don't think of skirts when I think of Ancient Greece. Try again. And stop speaking for "we" when you are only one person.



3. Yes I can. It's my professional opinion as a designer, anyway, but what do I know.


Sorry, but you tried that argument against the wrong person. I am founder, President, and CEO of a gaming company that has been making RPGs for over 10 years. So the question of game design experience really isn't the issue here.



The point is NOT to make it historical Greece; it's to be a fantasy game based on Greek mythology. Artists and designers have used the skirt thing without exception, and it works. You don't mess with what works.

Once again, you just ignored 2/3rds of the game.

And no, the skirt thing DOESN'T work, that's why getting rid of the ugly, crappy tunics has been one of the first and most widespread things modders have done to the game. When you have about 500 threads with people dumping the crappy tunics right off the bat, you've got a problem.

[Cambios]

I googled a little on greeks & pants to back up my claim that the ancient Greeks did not like pants, let alone wear them

So what? Only 1/3rd of the game is in Greece.

Furthermore, Greeks didn't cast fireballs either, have see through swords made of Ether, or summon fire elementals.

Stop using realism/history arguments about a game that is very clearly NOT realistic or historical, nor was it intended to be.

They ignored history, realism, and pure mythology in the creation of TONS of the abilities and TONS of the weapons. For some reason, they chickened out on the armor and made everyone wear these horrific, stupid looking skirts.

They clearly understood when making the spells and weapons that game design trumps pure historic/mythological accuracy. They just need to extend that correct logic to the armor, and make a few piece of armor that don't look so horrible.

This fanboy crap is really painful. If there WERE non-skirt armors in the game, and someone complained about it, these same exact people would be arguing for what a great decision it was of IL to make the non-skirt armors.

[Gene]

Well, I guess you could say that since the main PC is assumed to be Greek he doesn't want to wear pants as his culture frowns upon it. Though I was kinda looking forward to getting some puffy pants in the orient.

-Gene

[Xen]

Stop using realism/history arguments about a game that is very clearly NOT realistic or historical, nor was it intended to be.

They ignored history, realism, and pure mythology in the creation of TONS of the abilities and TONS of the weapons. For some reason, they chickened out on the armor and made everyone wear these horrific, stupid looking skirts.


interestingly enough, that still isnt an argument for having pants. :|

[looty]

I think it's funny that everybody is complaining about putting pants on the guy, at the same time modders are busy taking pants off the girl.

[Morimus]

Someone seems to have an unhealthy love of pants.

[Cambios]

I think it's funny that everybody is complaining about putting pants on the guy, at the same time modders are busy taking pants off the girl.

Actually, modders are pretty much hacking away at the tunics for men AND women, because they look terrible.

Here's the thing: if you like the skirts, then great! You'd certainly never be forced to wear non-skirted armor. But at least if there were a few pieces that were not skirt-based, other people would have options that were visually appealing (and while we are on the subject... is it such a crime to have some shoes instead of pansy looking sandals?).

But using historic Ancient Greece or traditional Greek mythology as an argument for why *ONLY* skirt armor could possibly exist, is a terrible, flawed, and erroneous argument.

Why?

Firstly, because Greece is only one third of the game (and frankly, it is the worst third - as is often the case with "first acts" in games, since they usually get designed first).

Secondly, and most importantly, because the developers have already demonstrated their repeated and frequent willingness to ignore both history and mythology when they wanted to make something cool or to make something better from a gameplay perspective.

[rahnefan]

Nope. I don't think of skirts when I think of Ancient Greece.

You don't really think that you are representative of the majority, though, do you? Not if the absence of pants is strange to you, for a character who is from mythological Greece. Unless you have some version of the game where you start somewhere/sometime else...


And stop speaking for "we" when you are only one person.

Why should I? It's my job to know some about these things.


I am founder, President, and CEO of a gaming company that has been making RPGs for over 10 years. So the question of game design experience really isn't the issue here..

Translation: You have Flash and recently moved out of your parents' house?


And no, the skirt thing DOESN'T work, that's why getting rid of the ugly, crappy tunics has been one of the first and most widespread things modders have done to the game. When you have about 500 threads with people dumping the crappy tunics right off the bat, you've got a problem.

I thought they were mostly just getting the girls naked?

Following your logic, they could give the Druids in Diablo 2 machine guns, since they already removed them so far from reality that they can turn into bears.

Visually speaking, Greek mythology means skirts skirts skirts, not pants. Maybe the sequel could have pants but for crying out loud, you character is Greek.

[looty]

I think it's actually called a chlamys, not a skirt.

[rahnefan]

I think it's actually called a chlamys, not a skirt.

Makes me wonder if it shares a root with chlamydia.

Ba-dum-bump.

[Cambios]

Translation: You have Flash and recently moved out of your parents' house?


Lol. Not only are you insulting, clueless, and wrong, but you aren't very observant either.



Visually speaking, Greek mythology means skirts skirts skirts, not pants. Maybe the sequel could have pants but for crying out loud, you character is Greek.

1) Only 1/3rd of the game is Greek. And the fact that they cheaped out on character customization does not universally declare that your character has to "BE" Greek. There is no need to make that error even worse by giving less armor variety choices. And incidentally, they claim the reason for no character customization is that they felt you could do it all through your gear. Well... LET US DO IT THROUGH GEAR - including some armor that isn't skirt-based.

2) If the game was only Greek Mythology, 2/3rds of the weapons wouldn't be in the game (including about 90% of the legendary weapons), and a ton of the abilities. Try harder.

3) This is a game, not a computerized representation of Edith Hamilton or Bullfinch's Mythology. It is more important to make something that is fun and looks good than something that fits some nermal's idea of "accurate to Greek mythology" - especially when only one third of the game is Greek.

[Xen]

Secondly, and most importantly, because the developers have already demonstrated their repeated and frequent willingness to ignore both history and mythology when they wanted to make something cool or to make something better from a gameplay perspective.

just curious if outside the fantasy element, you can support this argument. You know as in what weapons and armor didnt exist at the time that made it into the game an all.

[Cambios]

just curious if outside the fantasy element, you can support this argument. You know as in what weapons and armor didnt exist at the time that made it into the game an all.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you asking if the argument could be used to justify something like machine guns?

I definitely think there is a point where adding something too different from basic theme/genre would detract from the game. I don't think some of the fancy, wicked looking swords (or other weapons) crosses that line, nor do I think actual SHOES/BOOTS or armor that covers the legs would cross that line.

[rahnefan]

Lol. Not only are you insulting, clueless, and wrong, but you aren't very observant either.

OK so I'm wrong. Look, I don't mean any harm, but you must see you were kinda asking for that.


1) Only 1/3rd of the game is Greek.

But isn't that incorrect? It's 100% Greek, but only the first 1/3 of the game takes place in Greece.

You do not sound very happy with the game. Can't you wait for expansions to get pants? With a name like Titan Quest, it is clear that they wanted to put some limitations on it and not make it all things to all people.

But you ask any person in visual arts to draw a male figure from ancient Greece in less than 30 seconds--my friend, you will see a skirt.

[Gene]

But you ask any person in visual arts to draw a male figure from ancient Greece in less than 30 seconds--my friend, you will see a skirt.
Or no clothing at all as that wasn't as frowned upon as it is in this day and age. Especially if the person (the greek being drawn) were a gladiator.

-Gene

[looty]

Well, gladiating (O.o) is more of a Roman thing than a Greek thing.

The ancient Greeks preferred kottabos, wrestling, and ogling boys.

[Gene]

Well, gladiating (O.o) is more of a Roman thing than a Greek thing.

The ancient Greeks preferred kottabos, wrestling, and ogling boys.
Good point, however, wrestling was often done in the nude (as was oogling boys).

-Gene

[Terrawen]

Though we spend much of our time outside of Greece, the game itself is based largely around Greek mythology. And as others have pointed out, our main character is of Greek origin. Our main quest in the game is to help the Olympian Gods by stopping Typhon.

Whether they're implemented or not, I really don't care at all. If they decide to keep the skirts, no big deal. It's part of the artistic design direction they apparently wanted to move in and I can respect that. Honestly, I'd be more concerned about the fact that we can't find or equip belts. What's up with that?

[looty]

Quote:
Well, gladiating (O.o) is more of a Roman thing than a Greek thing.

The ancient Greeks preferred kottabos, wrestling, and ogling boys.

Good point, however, wrestling was often done in the nude (as was oogling boys).

-Gene

Yes, indeed. In fact, all athletics were done in "a state of nature," as it were. Made it kind of hard to identify the home team, though.

[Xen]

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you asking if the argument could be used to justify something like machine guns?

I definitely think there is a point where adding something too different from basic theme/genre would detract from the game. I don't think some of the fancy, wicked looking swords (or other weapons) crosses that line, nor do I think actual SHOES/BOOTS or armor that covers the legs would cross that line.

No, I mean in terms of the non fantasy weapons; I really havent seen anything that looks too "out of the period" at all. The only thing that might be considered such is the Gladius, and the other Italian/Spanish weapons in the game. Not so much because they were not around at the time, but because in the admittedly weird time frame, the greek colonies in both regions should under Roman control directlyly, or well withing its sphere of influence.

[Gene]

@Xen: I belive he's referring to the Legendary and Epic equipment because it doesn't look "realistic" per se.

-Gene

[Buckermann]

Where I live it's so bloody hot right now that I would love it, if it were culturally acceptable for men to wear skirts.
I envy the ancient greeks. I say keep the skirts.

[rahnefan]

Where I live it's so bloody hot right now that I would love it, if it were culturally acceptable for men to wear skirts.
I envy the ancient greeks. I say keep the skirts.

I'd love to see some real statistical data on spontaneous fellatio in cultures where men wear skirts vs. those where they do not.

For purely scientific purposes of course.

[Cambios]

Though we spend much of our time outside of Greece, the game itself is based largely around Greek mythology.


No, only 1/3rd of it was. The Egypt and Orient sections of the game are based around Egyptian and Oriental mythologies. If you don't believe me, read the quest text closely and talk go some of the yellow diamond NPCs (not to mention the magic items from those zones).

[Cambios]

No, I mean in terms of the non fantasy weapons; I really havent seen anything that looks too "out of the period" at all.

I imagine you haven't gotten that far into the game yet, because TONS of the epic and legendary items are extremely "fantastical" and not even close to historic or mythological Greece.

[Cambios]

OK so I'm wrong. Look, I don't mean any harm, but you must see you were kinda asking for that.


That's a pretty poor apology/retraction.

And no, I wasn't "asking for that." You're the one who made an argument from authority, so I shared my own work experience in response. I wasn't the one who tried to make a superiority argument, you did.

[looty]

I'd love to see some real statistical data on spontaneous fellatio in cultures where men wear skirts vs. those where they do not.

For purely scientific purposes of course.

Maybe you should get a grant to do fieldwork in Scotland.

[skinnybeans]

i like the no pants rule, makes characters look different from every other game in this genre.

[tenabrae]

i'm 100% behind the dresses

FWIW, if they used traditional gaming concepts of asian clothing (as indicated by their use of katana as the 'asian weapon') the men would still essentially be wearing dresses (they'd just potentially have loose pants under them) ;) iirc in the time period the games egypt is (apparently - during the construction of the sphinx) based around, again, men would be wearing skirts (or nappy-like loincloth deals)

[escapedturkey]

I realize there are no pants, and that's been argued, but how about robes? That would be cool because I'm a caster and don't they usually wear robes? :shifty:

[Arcantos]

Pants dont make much sense in this game honestly. It doesnt matter that much eithr, deal with your tunic/skirt, call it a kilt if you much, this is a completely un-needed thing. You start in greece, you have a very greek look to you, you wear greek clothing, deal with it.

Yes, there are fireballs and whatnot, but in fictional books written for things during this time, there were gods that hurled bolts of lightning (the first person who asks who did this gets a virtual *****-slap). While there are spellcasters in this that werent necessarily in history, it stays with the fact that there were such powers during that time, although not necessarily held by mortals. Stick with the mythology of it, dont go with pants.

[Arcantos]

And yes, this game was intended to be historical in the fact that is stays with the mythology. While most heroes were of a melee orientation, or an archer, the gods in a sense make up the spellcasters, and they had the ability to summon fire elementals and whatnot.

I am not trying to harp on you cambios, but every time I click "New Posts" at the top, every one that has some complaint has you starting it or writing up a big post on it. Just go and enjoy the game, not a single part of this game is unplayable. And dont say its just for cosmetics because this game looks beautiful, not a single thing really needs changed, even the balancing can really be overlooked to be honest, pair the right two masteries together and you have a nice character, and no, not always the same two masteries, everything has its share to offer.

I apologize, it just seems every post of yours is you complaining, I dont mean to harp, but it just irritated me.

[Cambios]

And yes, this game was intended to be historical in the fact that is stays with the mythology.

Except for TWO THIRDS of the game, but hey, why let facts get in the way of a good, senseless rant.



I am not trying to harp on you cambios, but every time I click "New Posts" at the top, every one that has some complaint has you starting it or writing up a big post on it. Just go and enjoy the game, not a single part of this game is unplayable. And dont say its just for cosmetics because this game looks beautiful, not a single thing really needs changed, even the balancing can really be overlooked to be honest, pair the right two masteries together and you have a nice character, and no, not always the same two masteries, everything has its share to offer.

I apologize, it just seems every post of yours is you complaining, I dont mean to harp, but it just irritated me.

Also, while I'm not trying to harp on you, it might be a good idea to use actual sentences when you write a post. Endless run-on sentences are nigh unreadable. I don't mean to harp, but when the English language takes such a ferocious beating, it irritates me.

[Morimus]

Cambios, what did the game ever do to you? The prevailing visual style is Greek, this is seen in the shapes of most of the armor and weapons you can find. Legendary and Epic items are unique creations with art that has to be distinct from common pieces. You begin in Greece, and you end the game in Olympus. The entire storyline is about the Titans, which belong to Greek mythology.

There are many other games offering a wide assortment of pants to chose from. There is no reason developers should have to compromise their visual direction just to appease someone with a pant fetish.

[Cambios]

Cambios, what did the game ever do to you? The prevailing visual style is Greek, this is seen in the shapes of most of the armor and weapons you can find.


Except for TWO THIRDS of the game, where the prevailing style is either Egyptian or Oriental.

What the heck is the problem here. Are you folks like 3 hours into the game and have never progressed beyond Act I?

Two Thirds of the basic content is NOT GREEK, and an even higher percentage of the epic and legendary items are so fantastic that they are also not Greek.

For the love of all that is good and holy, please let this fact sink in so we can stop having people say such foolish and WRONG things about the game.

[escapedturkey]

Do we get robes eventually? I'm still in Act I myself.

[Mexem]

no, u get to keep the mini skirt all the way through all the acts, and all the difficulties.

[escapedturkey]

Hehe. I'm sure someone will come up with skin-packs. :)

[tenabrae]

For the love of all that is good and holy, please let this fact sink in so we can stop having people say such foolish and WRONG things about the game.

Constantly repeating yourself doesn't really address the issue, nor does ignoring comments that don't fit your rant.

[Blendy]

Greeks and Egyptians both tended to wear loose individual-piece garments, individual trousers were rare and mainly used by Persians and barbarians. Not sure about them Orientals.

Besides, the world would be a better place without pants. Cambios if you want pants your best hope is to mod them in, you're the programming dude anyway.

[Xenosmilus]

Except for TWO THIRDS of the game, but hey, why let facts get in the way of a good, senseless rant.

Except we're down to one third really now, aren't we, considering as a previous poster mentioned, guys were wearing skirtlike clothing / loincloths in egypt at that time anyway. So I guess pants weren't going to be happening there either! =)

[cstebbin]

Let me help you all sum it up, unless your the type who spends hours fawning over the image in the character select window...who cares. In order for the game to be playable you have to be zoomed out all the way, and at that point it really doesnt matter. Im more concerned about what color "blur" my character makes while zipping around at that distance than "OMG no pants, WTF. So totally unrealistic."

Just 2 cents nobody wants. :rockon:

[Gene]

Constantly repeating yourself doesn't really address the issue, nor does ignoring comments that don't fit your rant. Quoted 'cause I was just thinking the exact same thing and the fact that's I'd like to know why you're doing it.

-Gene

[Cambios]

Constantly repeating yourself doesn't really address the issue, nor does ignoring comments that don't fit your rant.

It would be cool then if people would actually learn that:

1) Only 1/3rd of the game takes place in Greece.

2) There are tons of examples of things that IL did that are not historically or mythologically accurate, but they did it because it looked good. Making some non-skirt armor would simply continue this very smart trend.

Furthermore, lets not forget that the EDITOR is a huge selling point for the game. If IL does not make it possible to create armor that covers the legs, then basically everyone who makes custom adventures is stuck with this exact same "Greek style armor" no matter what type of custom adventure they are trying to make.

[Marine OKeefe]

Its a TUNIC not a Skirt!!! AAARG!

[Maktaka]

Its a TUNIC not a Skirt!!! AAARG!

Thank you OKeefe, that just cracks me up.

[Impulsand]

I think Cambios does make a good point.

I think he's taking it too far. Cambios, you can keep coming up with arguments. If the pantless motif is what the devs wanted then thats what they have. Edit your own pants.

Although: Devil's Advocate: Having armour (based on historical geographical design) that covers more of the body down past the waist and to the knees is a good idea. I think that alternate areas should sport this. But again, that is something that could be made. And hey, since you have your own gaming company Cambios, edit up some panted armour and send it around for all to share.

Cheers,

Imp.

[Xen]

the more I think about it the more and more I come to the conclusion that pants arnt at all needed, either in the game, or daily life. :D

[Hyunsai]

I love the "no pants" style of Titanquest, heeh...

I m tired of the eternal cliché of heroic fantasy, so we can at least have different style here...

And anyway, in some fantasy books (like the Lion of macedoin of Gemmel), oh my god, there were magic, monsters and other dimensions, but but... STILL NO PANTS... How outragious...


P.S Anyway, no pants in Egypt of this period either, lol... I m not sure for Orient though...

[Cambios]

I m tired of the eternal cliché of heroic fantasy, so we can at least have different style here...


So in other words, since *YOU* are tired of it, everyone else should be too, eh?

What's a better solution?

Creating only ONE STYLE, and then only pleasing the Greek theater crowd and the fanboys who'd eat turds and ask for seconds if the devs were handing them out?

Or create more than one style, and let people CHOOSE for their own character which style armor to wear?

Having a variety of gear options is better. This is especially true since they gave you ZERO character customization, and you have to do it ALL through gear. It is pretty hard to customize when your choices are skirt, skirt, and skirt.

Especially since the whole point of releasing the editor is to try extend the lifespan of the game by letting player created content enhance the gameplay.

The total lack of non-skirt armor means every single mod people make is stuck with this exact same, very limited, and frankly, unpopular style. There's a reason why the "cliche" you lament exists, after all.

If it is even possible, it will be VERY hard for the people making adventures to do the kind of high end 3d graphics work that would be required to make non-skirt armor. IL has the best tools and the actual staff to do this.

For them it is TONS easier than for modders. In fact, it might even be impossible for modders.

[Jagadance]

Creating only ONE STYLE, and then only pleasing Greek theater crowd and the fanboys who'd eat turds and ask for seconds if the devs were handing them out?

Good old Cambios. As soon as an argument turns against him he throws around the word "fanboy". God forbid people be happy with the game, or want the devs to be working on actual important issues.

[escapedturkey]

I think I noticed some NPC's wearing robes in Egypt, so that would be pretty cool. Have that kinda Jedi Master look.

[Yakkeah]

rahnefan,

I'm in 4th year BFA this year and if you told me to envision a greek hero that travels through Egypt and the Orient, he/she would be wearing pants for a lot of the time.

Maybe it's not the best example, but in The Last Samurai movie, the American ended up wearing japanese armor. Holy #%@, maybe he should of been wearing blue tights, yelling "stars and strips" with a Captain America shield?

If you asked me to paint a picture of your TQ character on top of a snow covered mountain in ancient china fighting Yetis, drawing him with a skirt on with no pants while treading through the mountain would look pretty rediculous. While the greeks did not wear pants, I think this was due to the heat of the place where they lived. If a greek were to travel to colder regions, I'm pretty sure that if he saw a pair of pants available at the local merchant with a green bag floating over his head, he would opt to wear it over running around pantless. I'd also imagine that the armor sets based on chinese armor designs would have pants.

Maybe I'm just a student, and I'm not 'professional' like you. But I would advise you to quit limiting your own imagination. If you have so hard a time envisioning a believable world in your head just because of pants, and your greek looking monkey man, then your imagination is really lacking for being someone who so confidently speaks about his art base.

[Hyunsai]

So in other words, since *YOU* are tired of it, everyone else should be too, eh?

What's a better solution?

Creating only ONE STYLE, and then only pleasing the Greek theater crowd and the fanboys who'd eat turds and ask for seconds if the devs were handing them out?


Well, then quote where I said that "everyone else should be too"...

But I'm out of here...

I see that even in this forums, when we have different opinion, we have such private attacks... I don't have the time to respond to those mischievousness.



Good old Cambios. As soon as an argument turns against him he throws around the word "fanboy". God forbid people be happy with the game, or want the devs to be working on actual important issues.Well said.

[Sapphire]

There were MC Hammer pants in Ancient Egypt, I swear.

[Jaif]

Creating only ONE STYLE, and then only pleasing the Greek theater crowd and the fanboys who'd eat turds and ask for seconds if the devs were handing them out?

There's no need to be rude. It doesn't further your point any.

This isn't a question of realism, it's a question of motif. The devs very obviously decided to go with an ancient world motif.

If you want to add pants, dig up a picture of pants from ancient greek, egyptian, or asian mythology or times, and ask for it. No need to be rude, no need to be denigrating. I don't believe you'll find any from greece or egypt (they had no reason to wear pants - in the west those were more celtic or germanic things), but I wouldn't be surprised to see pants from northern asia.

-Jeff

[Steerpike]

This discussion was quite amusing for me, being British. For a while there I thought someone wanted the hero to be in Y-fronts or boxers!

[Xen]

There were MC Hammer pants in Ancient Egypt, I swear.

If that was the case, then you have pretty much sealed the argument agianst pants.

But you're thinking medieval egypt, and arab world; ancient egypt didnt wear pants either ;)

[mlaird]

If you asked me to paint a picture of your TQ character on top of a snow covered mountain in ancient china fighting Yetis, drawing him with a skirt on with no pants while treading through the mountain would look pretty rediculous. While the greeks did not wear pants, I think this was due to the heat of the place where they lived. If a greek were to travel to colder regions, I'm pretty sure that if he saw a pair of pants available at the local merchant with a green bag floating over his head, he would opt to wear it over running around pantless. I'd also imagine that the armor sets based on chinese armor designs would have pants.

You should go read Xenophon's Anabasis right now.
(or Michael Curtis Ford's "the Ten Thosand", its a good read)
When the Greeks were forced to march through the mountains around Armenia/Persia, they did not put on pants. They froze their asses and toes off and many of them died. But they did not put on pantaloons.

When Alexander the great adopted Persian attire (pants) and tried to get his Greek troops to do the same, they mutinied. They mutinied against the man who made them all billionaires (well, he made them marry persian women, too).

Bottom line: you are greek. Don't wear pants.
Dont wear pants in China, don't wear pants in Japan, don't wear pants in Egypt, pants are for barbarians.

[looty]

pants are for barbarians

I want to get that printed on a t-shirt.

An extra long t-shirt, of course.

[Impulsand]

pants are for barbarians


I want to get that printed on a t-shirt.

An extra long t-shirt, of course.

LOL OMG that made me laugh so hard.

[Chris Woods]

So in other words, since *YOU* are tired of it, everyone else should be too, eh?

Can't this essentially be applied to your entire rant? "So in other words, since *YOU* want pants, everyone else should too, eh?"

I mean, really.

Chris Woods

[Lady Eternity]

Hello =)

Speaking from a female point of view, I was rather disgruntled by the female attire in the game in general. Most of the armor I found fit my avatar very poorly, and in some outfits I have to admit she looked like someone 14 sizes bigger had worn the armor before her. While I do not abide scantly clad battle women, I don't really particularly like the "potatoe sack" look either. And it was a bit annoying to see NPC men and women sporting clothing that was not available to the player. My earth magus would have loved to find a long flowing robe/dress style tunic.

I understand the tunic look with no leggings in the game, and that it does grant a very greek feel. But the game, as has been stated a few times in this thread already, is not entirely within Greece. When I arrived in Egypt I was taken aback at the lack of "culture" shown in the shops there, and in the drops. And even more so when I came to the china area. I expected to see silken bloomers and so on. Perhaps even some fun cultural patterned robes and shoes.

In a game that is rooted in item acquisition and fast combat, item variety is very important, as it acts like a carrot. If an exspansion will eventually be created, it would be really smashing if they would put alot more item mesh variety in and fix alot of the female armor.

Lady E

[Cambios]

rahnefan,

I'm in 4th year BFA this year and if you told me to envision a greek hero that travels through Egypt and the Orient, he/she would be wearing pants for a lot of the time.

Maybe it's not the best example, but in The Last Samurai movie, the American ended up wearing japanese armor. Holy #%@, maybe he should of been wearing blue tights, yelling "stars and strips" with a Captain America shield?

If you asked me to paint a picture of your TQ character on top of a snow covered mountain in ancient china fighting Yetis, drawing him with a skirt on with no pants while treading through the mountain would look pretty rediculous. While the greeks did not wear pants, I think this was due to the heat of the place where they lived. If a greek were to travel to colder regions, I'm pretty sure that if he saw a pair of pants available at the local merchant with a green bag floating over his head, he would opt to wear it over running around pantless. I'd also imagine that the armor sets based on chinese armor designs would have pants.

Maybe I'm just a student, and I'm not 'professional' like you. But I would advise you to quit limiting your own imagination. If you have so hard a time envisioning a believable world in your head just because of pants, and your greek looking monkey man, then your imagination is really lacking for being someone who so confidently speaks about his art base.


*applaud*

Now, can the history fanboy weenies cut it out? Seriously, the history argument is total crap. There are so many things in the game that are already historically and mythologically inaccurate (but done for fun or to be visually pleasing) that the argument is just worthless.

And as I have already stated, and NOBODY has been able to refute, IL repeatedly says the editor is a big part of their long term plan for the game. Well, forcing EVERYONE to adopt this skirts-only armor visual appearance is severely limiting to the concept of mod/adventure making.

So creating armors that have pants:

1) Creates more variety for all players, which means they can choose the look they like.

2) Helps make up for the total lack of character customization at creation since you can do it with gear. The current situation results in characters not looking all that different, since they are always in a skirt of some kind.

3) Makes it actually possible for people who are making mods/adventures to create things different in look than the main campaign. The current "skirts only" armor model will result in player made content having a very derivative feel.

[Cambios]

Can't this essentially be applied to your entire rant? "So in other words, since *YOU* want pants, everyone else should too, eh?"

I mean, really.


Um...... Do you even pay attention at all?

Did I say all armor should be turned into non-skirt armor?

No. I, and tons of other people, are asking for them to create some armor models that HAVE "pants" or are not-skirts. So basically, some armor with legs, some robes, etc.

That way, there is VARIETY AND CHOICE.

The only people trying to force their preference on others are the people saying these other types of armor should not be created.

I mean, really.

[Cambios]

Hello =)

Speaking from a female point of view, I was rather disgruntled by the female attire in the game in general. Most of the armor I found fit my avatar very poorly, and in some outfits I have to admit she looked like someone 14 sizes bigger had worn the armor before her. While I do not abide scantly clad battle women, I don't really particularly like the "potatoe sack" look either. And it was a bit annoying to see NPC men and women sporting clothing that was not available to the player. My earth magus would have loved to find a long flowing robe/dress style tunic.

I understand the tunic look with no leggings in the game, and that it does grant a very greek feel. But the game, as has been stated a few times in this thread already, is not entirely within Greece. When I arrived in Egypt I was taken aback at the lack of "culture" shown in the shops there, and in the drops. And even more so when I came to the china area. I expected to see silken bloomers and so on. Perhaps even some fun cultural patterned robes and shoes.

In a game that is rooted in item acquisition and fast combat, item variety is very important, as it acts like a carrot. If an exspansion will eventually be created, it would be really smashing if they would put alot more item mesh variety in and fix alot of the female armor.


Brilliant post - especially the last paragraph.

My wife also frequently laments how horrible her armor looks. The armor she is currently wearing makes it look like she has the backside of a pregnant ox, and she hates it.

[Anthias]

What a stupid thread!



I am not trying to harp on you cambios, but every time I click "New Posts" at the top, every one that has some complaint has you starting it or writing up a big post on it.

thats because he made a crap game that sucks, then played a real game that doesn't and feels his manhood is being threatened, so instead of simply enjoying the game and learning from it in order to improve his own work like the rest of us would, he rants like a spoiled 2 year old and insists that this game HAS to be just like every other RPG, because that's what HE thinks RPG's are all about. What a boring little world he must live in. If TQ was changed to meat his demands, I probably wouldn't be playing it. It would just be yet another boring D2 clone. I'd go back to sacred.

In the ancient world, people BELIEVED in their mythologies. SO it is APPROPRIATE for a game that is SET in that place and time, to INCORPORATE those mythologies in a way that the real world may not have done. and really, I see little that has not had a basis in some level in the stories and myth cycles of the time SOMEWHERE. remember - there are allways regional myths as well as the general ones everybody knows. Even the weapons - even if you find one that really takes the fantasy side much more than the relevant myth side, SO WHAT? IT'S A GAME! let them draw in the fantasy side of things for interest sake - it still works. After all, so much of the start of fantasy COMES from these myths! the times when archaeology started to really take of a couple of hundred years ago, and people began to get interested in the "Classical" periods, were a huge basis of inspiration for modern fantasy. TQ gets a good mix - so lets just enjoy it!.

WITHOUT the greek thing, this wouldn't be titan quest. period.

I know this is a flame, but frankly I don't care. I wont be returning to this stupid thread.

[Jagadance]

Now, can the history fanboy weenies cut it out?

Once again, he needs to resort to the "fanboy" insult. nevermind that though. He's been making MUD rpg's that no one cares about for 12 years! He must have something important to contribute!

[Arcantos]

Once again, he needs to resort to the "fanboy" insult. nevermind that though. He's been making MUD rpg's that no one cares about for 12 years! He must have something important to contribute!

Wow, is that seriously all he is the CEO and President or whatnot of? Thats really not something to go tossing around as presitigious by any means. Does that even give one any more credit when talking about a games graphics or less? Due to MUD's being completely text based and centered on your imagination, shouldn't one such as he be able to imagine his character with pants? I'm not even bashing MUD's here, I've played some with a friend for a short period of time. But honestly, well, no, I'm done with this thread as well.

[Jagadance]

Wow, is that seriously all he is the CEO and President or whatnot of? Thats really not something to go tossing around as presitigious by any means. Does that even give one any more credit when talking about a games graphics or less? Due to MUD's being completely text based and centered on your imagination, shouldn't one such as he be able to imagine his character with pants? I'm not even bashing MUD's here, I've played some with a friend for a short period of time. But honestly, well, no, I'm done with this thread as well.

Yep, that's it. He does have a distinct ability to make arguments out of nothing though, so just watch what comes next. :)

The funny part is, he posted saying how "dangerous" it was to have people posting that the game works fine for them (http://www.titanquest.net/gameplay/4523-sign-tq-doesnt-run-fine-your-comp.html?highlight=laptop), yet he's wasting tons of effort spewing all this stuff about pants. He's really comic relief as far as I'm concerned. :)

[Timstone]

Hi all,

I've been reading this nice and friendly thread from the beginning and I think this is a very interesting conversation.
I think that Cambios and Lady Eternity (and the other people from that line of thinking) have a very good point. More variety is good, add the pants please.
However, there are a few annoying things in this (now 9 pages!!) conversation. First, the utter lack of some people to refrain from flaming and insulting. This is not cool. Some people are perfectly capable of explaining their point of view without having to use coarse language or insults. Second, the frequent use of the word "Fanboy", arrggg! Stop using this word!

I also found this nice quote from Cambios in another thread:
Fanbois will always dominate online forums, AND they will always post a crapload more than "regular folks."
Doesn't this apply to you then (just have a look at your post count), Cambios...?
Haha... a bit strange though to first support him and then attack him, isn't it? Just adding fuel to the fire...


Edit: typo's, doh!

[Sylverphyre]

To put things simply, Cambios and Lady E do have good points... Though I do agree that Cambios is starting to get rather offensive with his argument... No offense, Cambios, but I think you're fairly aware enough that you are... In fact, a LOT of you are..
Anyway, the restrictions in armor design is rather annoying... I do agree with Cambios on that one... Also, the designs really don't fit the female model as well, though likewise some look hideously bulky and downright ugly on the males as well... But the fact of the matter is, it was the choice of the developers to take this path, and in the end, we all have to really abide by that now don't we? I mean, it's their hard work and sweat to make such a great (albeit buggy) game, so I personally say, to each his/her own... Throw away the facts of history and whatnot... This is a game, based on myth and history... But it's also a game that IL developed, so there...
I do see Cambios' point in making it easier for modders to make full armor for mods and the like... All I can say is...
Just ENJOY THE GAME ALREADY...
On a sidenote, Cambios, or anyone else, no offense intended... Also, Lady E, I still feel your pain, being an artistic person myself, but what can you do... I do admit my female toons usually end up with two sets of armor... One for actual use, one to make them look good... LOL!

[Cambios]

thats because he made a crap game that sucks,

*chuckle*

Do you think people will be playing Titan Quest 10 years from now?

Our flagship game has been running for over 10 years now, with many players who have been there for 8+ years.

We have customers that have spent more than $10,000 on accounts and added features for their accounts (but you don't have to - we have tons of people who never spend more than the base $50 per year).

Would anyone pay $10,000 to play Titan Quest?

We've won countless awards over the last 10 years, and been praised numerous times both in PC Gamer and Computer Games magazine.

Nice try on the groundless personal attack... but you fail.

I don't know why jealous weenies have to try to make this about my company vs. Titan Quest, when the subject here is TITAN QUEST and I actually love the game.

But god forbid I suggest an improvement!!!!!! That just drives the fanbois crazy. The fanbois have to argue that NOTHING could be done better - usually because they think it will somehow curry favor with the game developers and give them some kind of inside access.

Any experienced game developer knows that listening to fanbois is utterly pointless. The most valuable feedback is from people who clearly analyze the heck out of the game, love it (warts and all), but have suggestions to make it better. Those are the signs of someone who knows what they are talking about, and also has an open mind.

[tenabrae]

it's only an improvement in _your_ opinion ... you're arguing about pants, PANTS ! just get over yourself.

[Sein_Schatten]

attacking someones work (Cambios game) just shows that you are an idiot and want to let us all know. saying it sucks without testing it is stupid.



I don't know why jealous weenies have to try to make this about my company vs. Titan Quest, when the subject here is TITAN QUEST and I actually love the game.

i think you started it by lettung us know this little fact that has no bearing to this discussion. ;)



But god forbid I suggest an improvement!!!!!! That just drives the fanbois crazy.

an improvement in your eyes. not in mine. i like the look.


is fanboy the new word for "i am dumb"?

[Gene]

Honestly Cambios stop using the terms "fanboy" and "fanboi." In my eyes they're only causing you to lose credibility. Most things you post I generally agree with but now, since all you can do is bash fanboys (on the games forum no less) I'm finding that you're acting like quite a jerk.

You insulting fanboys would be like me insulting Jews or Christians just because they like their faith. Quit already.

-Gene

[Sein_Schatten]

me insulting Jews
-Gene

omg Gene is insulting jews... Nazi. O_O

[Gene]

*rawr*
Nazi all teh wayzorz!!!

Hail Hitler!!!

-Gene

[Sein_Schatten]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALP.......
The brown epidemic is invading..........











lol

[Gene]

Long live the Ariens (probably misspelled). :D

-Gene

[Sein_Schatten]

nice derayling. :lol:
i demand this thread is now about males who dont wear pants... in RL. :lol:

[Gene]

I demand this thread be closed. It's going to turn into a flamewar.

-Gene

[mlaird]

I demand that this thread be turned into a classic Greek comedy, with tunics and masks and lots of gratiutous nudity.

[Sein_Schatten]

i dont fear the flames.

FLAME ON!!!
:D

[Gene]

*lights flame thrower*
I don't fear the flaming either.

It's just the constant and antagonistic/derogative use of the word fanboy that's getting on my nerves.

-Gene

[Tiberian]

hahaha, bragging about the awards your MUD has is like showing off a gold medal for the special olympics. What's next, someone bragging about hosting the best Civ 4 PBEM game?

Simply hilarious.

[Gene]

What's next, someone bragging about hosting the best Civ 4 PBEM game?
*cough cough*
Me...
*cough cough*

-Gene

[Sein_Schatten]

hahaha, bragging about the awards your MUD has is like showing off a gold medal for the special olympics. What's next, someone bragging about hosting the best Civ 4 PBEM game?

Simply hilarious.

this thread is about pants or lack thereof.
lower your pants and surrender. or fear the evil mr pantless
http://www.xs4all.nl/~terrible/red/red04.jpg

[Gene]

this thread is about pants or lack thereof.
lower your pants and surrender. or fear the evil mr pantless
http://www.xs4all.nl/~terrible/red/red04.jpg
You just won the thread.

-Gene

[mlaird]

As the winner I am giving you the song I wrote about chainmail bikinis
http://www.dumbmachine.net/audio/Chainmail.mp3
(sorry for the spam, i truly think a few here might get a larf)

[Gene]

I larfed...

-Gene

[NTJedi]

A quick comment from the developers would end this topic:

Possible response A: No this will not happen within sequels/expansions/patches. The end.
---thus ending the topic
OR
Possible response B: Yes we plan to eventually include pants within an upcoming patch/expansion/sequel. Nothing to do except wait.
---thus ending the topic

[Arcantos]

I demand that this thread be turned into a classic Greek comedy, with tunics and masks and lots of gratiutous nudity.

I like this idea much better.

[Ultrazen]

I always love authenticity arguements in games where people summon pets, and shoot fireballs out of their (*&)(*..... I may be in the dark here, but as far as I remember my history, none of these people had fireball *** did they?

[Arcantos]

Yes, but its authenticity in mythology, where they did have the ability to summon monsters and shoot fireballs, out of their wazoos if they so chose.

[Cambios]

Yes, but its authenticity in mythology, where they did have the ability to summon monsters and shoot fireballs, out of their wazoos if they so chose.

Sorry, you still fail. In Mythology, they didn't have Town Portal so they could run back to town every few minutes to sell loot for gold.

Sorry folks, but the whole "historic/mythological accurate dominating everything" is just bunk.

They ignored it for many aspects of gameplay, and it was generally a good move when they did so. Heck, the whole concept of how an action RPG works has so many core elements to it that aren't "epic" or "mythological" that trying to rely on it completely is just silly.

[Sein_Schatten]

Sorry, you still fail. In Mythology, they didn't have Town Portal

and in TQ history they dont have pants. get over it. you want pants then put some on. thats also the reason people run away when you approach them.

[Jaif]

They ignored it for many aspects of gameplay, and it was generally a good move when they did so. Heck, the whole concept of how an action RPG works has so many core elements to it that aren't "epic" or "mythological" that trying to rely on it completely is just silly.

Agreed. Where's my storm trooper armor! I'm tired of hearing all this greek/myth/history/epic nonsense - I want my storm trooper armor!

...and while they're at it, I want fight pink elephants and fluffy bunnies. I'm tired of these satyrs and stupid stupid stuff, I want to fight something cool!

Cambios, your arguments are nothing more than those - something you want. There's no obvious reason for them other than you want them. That's not a bad reason, per se, but it doesn't justify all the mudsling (calling anybody who disagrees with you a "fanboi") you have been doing.

Anyways, can you please just let this thread die? I'm certain the devs have long since seen it at this point.

-Jeff

[Jagadance]

Agreed. Where's my storm trooper armor! I'm tired of hearing all this greek/myth/history/epic nonsense - I want my storm trooper armor!

...and while they're at it, I want fight pink elephants and fluffy bunnies. I'm tired of these satyrs and stupid stupid stuff, I want to fight something cool!

Excellent point.

[Xen]

Sorry, you still fail. In Mythology, they didn't have Town Portal so they could run back to town every few minutes to sell loot for gold.

Sorry folks, but the whole "historic/mythological accurate dominating everything" is just bunk.

They ignored it for many aspects of gameplay, and it was generally a good move when they did so. Heck, the whole concept of how an action RPG works has so many core elements to it that aren't "epic" or "mythological" that trying to rely on it completely is just silly.

yet not any more silly the selectivly taking pieces of the real world to put into your game to try to give it a nice flavor of realism.

Like not having pants.

[Roland]

I HATE Pants!

Gim'ma me kilt any day!!!!

"It's a good day to die lads..."

/spits and grabs his bastard sword

heh

(yes Roland has returned to the forums lol...did you miss me?)

:razz:

[escapedturkey]

If you want pants so much you may want to try SpellForce 2, it has pants and similar type gameplay:

http://www.3dgamers.com/dlselect/games/spellforce2/sf2_demo.zip.html

It's a 2006 game as well. Sorry in advance if I'm not allowed to mention other games. It's much deeper game than this one since it has RPG and RTS elements.

[Veavictis]

Haha, I've read this whole god damn thread now, and I just laugh my *** off at Cambios, you crank me up dude! Just drop the pants thing now and as many other people have allready said, mod your own pants or something if you REALLY REALLY want pants! Because IL won't give you your pants, and you gotta live with that! Jesus..just go get your pants somehow, then shut the **** up about it and play on.

I must say your reply's in here kinda irritated the hell out of me.

[Cambios]

I must say your reply's in here kinda irritated the hell out of me.

Yeah, god forbid someone actually want the game to have some longevity and mod-ability. What an outrageous and asinine request!

That's sarcasm, for the clueless.

[Sylverphyre]

That's sarcasm, for the clueless.

Hmm...

http://www.orlyowl.com/orly.jpg

Sorry, couldn't help myself... :razz:

As for the whole pants thing, all I can say is, to each his/her own... Think I said that before actually earlier in this thread, but can't remember... Cambios, you've got valid points, as did Lady E in regards to the female armor look, but at the end of the day, it's probably going to be the modders who do something about this whole 'pants' issue... Or maybe when the expansion comes out... So for now, why don't you just enjoy the game? Or maybe approach some of the modders... I dunno...

Anyway, not trying to **** anyone off... Hehe, especially you Cambios... Don't really feel like being called 'fan boi'... :errf:

[Cambios]

So for now, why don't you just enjoy the game? Or maybe approach some of the modders... I dunno...


Because the squeaky wheel gets the grease, that's why.

Sadly, the only way to make something positive happen is to make sure it stays in the forefront of discussion. Otherwise, it just gets ignored.

And honestly: using pictures as a form of discussion is so 5 years ago fark.com.

[Sylverphyre]

And honestly: using pictures as a form of discussion is so 5 years ago fark.com.

Hehe, at least I didn't get hit with "fan boi"... Anywayz, I still find the hilarity in it, so once again, 'to each his own'...

[AnonymousTester]

Or if pants are going to be left out then, how about a longer tunic instead? PLEASE!!!??

[501105]

Since this thread has turned into one big mass of oftopicness and flaming and since Ironlore has stated that they wont add pants for now Closed.