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thewilldog
03-11-2012, 01:20 AM
Back to playing TQ/IT after a few years hiatus. The only char I played when I first got the game was an ice shard focused Druid. Decided to try Dream and Spirit. I'm using the 1.17 fan patch.

My char is up to lvl 33 in Act 5, but I'm worried. I'm getting rocked by late game bosses, particularly Typhon. I'm concerned that the char isn't going to survive well in Epic/Legendary. Here's what I got so far.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/thewilldog/TQ/TQ1.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/thewilldog/TQ/TQ2.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/thewilldog/TQ/TQ3.jpg

As you can see, i haven't committed to playing staff or melee yet. I've focused on equipment that increases speed and skills. So far I've only found once piece of armor that increase all Spirit skills (very early too) so I've hung on to it. However, my primary damage comes from DR/TR, which is great for mobs, but doesn't really hammer the bosses, which is a bad sign since the damage wont get bumped when going up in difficulty lvls. I've also powered up the LK, but he is getting killed by undead, automatons, and bosses. Also, I'm only using attribute points as needed to equip new gear. But I haven't run across and decent new gear in a while, so I have a back log built up.

Here's my main concern - Normal Typhon is taking about 10 min to kill. He's killing both my pets almost immediately (his life/mana leach is devastating) and even killing the outsider pretty quickly. All I can do is run around in circles and hit him with DR whenever it recharges. I usually have to run away several times to keep from getting killed, not always successfully.

What should I be doing differently? Is the character too general in nature? Should I rebuy skills and focus on just one damage type? If so, what should I invest in that will carry over into the next two difficulties?

Poinas
03-11-2012, 04:48 AM
I recoomed something like this: http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=5&m1=32-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-0-1-1-0-8-1-6-1-0-1-0-0-1-1-0-6-9-0-0-0-0

The liche won't do much good if it dies quickly, and he will die a lot in act 4. Get him again when you get to epic.

The cuffs, helmet and breast plate are not that good. Look for something with higher armor rating.

How much offensive ability do you have? It should be at least 300 at that point, otherwise you'll do reduced damage.

kalimon
03-11-2012, 11:34 AM
hmmm you're level 33 wearing armor that can be wielded by level 9. go to the shop and spend on some decent armor, maybe do shop runs (check shop, buy anything you like, save, reload, repeat) until you have all green armor.

Furthering Poinas' point, in normal mode, go for things with Staunch... or Tough... which give you +Armour bonuses, then also look for weapons with either +Attack Speed or +%damage (i have a soft spot for those two) and then tone it up with an Essence of the Valor of Achilles. if you have a lot of time to kill you could search for a green (rare) 'Cyclopean..', or if you're lucky a 'Veteran's...' weapon, they tear up. even if what you buy is only yellow (magical), you need the armor bonus. shop for armor first, and then a new weapon. if you are undecided about the weapon but you see something you might like, buy it, DONT SAVE, check the 'Damage Per Second [DPS]' in the Character window and compare by that. good luck!

also, seeing as you have 35 attribute points to spare, if you are going to go for a melee diviner then why not break the bank and up your Str and Dex?

thewilldog
03-11-2012, 11:47 AM
Shoot, I'm not even in the neighborhood of 300

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll204/thewilldog/TQ/TQ4.jpg

I've got 35 attribute points to spend, should I just dump them into Dex until I hit 300 and hope I don't need the STR or INT later?

My strategy for equipment has always been to focus on +speed%, +attribute%, or +skill masteries with less emphasis on actual armor rating. That's why I still have the those lower level pieces.

Shalie
03-11-2012, 12:12 PM
Since you are going melee, divide your attribute points 1:1 in Strenght:Dexterity.


My strategy for equipment has always been to focus on +speed%, +attribute%, or +skill masteries with less emphasis on actual armor rating. That's why I still have the those lower level pieces.

I see nothing wrong with that tactic, armor rating isn't that important. Just don't take it to the extreme, items from higher acts generally have better magical properties.

Irma2
03-11-2012, 01:40 PM
You need to decide what you're going to do first. Pumping Dex and Str and then deciding in early Epic that you really want to be a staff user isn't going to help.

There are many different ways to play Diviner - Ternion and ...of Harrowing, regular Vit damage with Ternion and staff, physical melee build or even Vitality melee with high Int. My Int/Vit melee Diviner is currently in Act III Legendary with only two deaths, Hydra-farming mishaps which could easily have been avoided. So the toon is perfectly viable even with self-found gear.

The end of Act III is late enough to pick a direction and go with it. You can't go on interminably hedging your bets and saving your points. At some point, you have to pick a niche and go for it. Now is that time.

thewilldog
03-11-2012, 01:52 PM
Well, I'm on the melee path so far, I guess ill stick with it. I'll create another toon to see if I like ternion better.

I don't know what you guys are finding in the shops, but all I ever see is junk. Mostly whites, a few uninspiring yellows. I stopped bothering to look at them a long time ago.

Irma2
03-11-2012, 04:02 PM
Melee is one thing but do you want to go Str/Dex or Int/Dex?

You won't find great items in Normal. Late Epic and Legendary is the time for godly greens in shops. You may find reasonable greens in Act IV but I'd be surprised. Act IV Normal shopping is the worst in the game in my experience. So it's just a case of grinding through until you get the drop bonanza of purples in early Epic.

thewilldog
03-11-2012, 07:30 PM
Melee is one thing but do you want to go Str/Dex or Int/Dex?

Should I assume that Str/Dex mean I'm depending on a weapon and Phtm Strike for damage, while Int/Dex is focused on EBD (max DW, DR)? Not sure which one makes more sense in the long run.

thewilldog
03-11-2012, 07:32 PM
I recoomed something like this: http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&sa=5&m1=32-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=32-0-1-1-0-8-1-6-1-0-1-0-0-1-1-0-6-9-0-0-0-0

The liche won't do much good if it dies quickly, and he will die a lot in act 4. Get him again when you get to epic.

The cuffs, helmet and breast plate are not that good. Look for something with higher armor rating.

How much offensive ability do you have? It should be at least 300 at that point, otherwise you'll do reduced damage.

Took your advice and re-worked all the skills points. Lucid dream tree is now maxed, as is PI. Working putting points back into DR/TR to do lots of EBD damage. Bosses are a little easier now, but i do find myself missing the lich. The nightmare doesn't get much done.

Thanks for the help.

Irma2
03-11-2012, 08:39 PM
Should I assume that Str/Dex mean I'm depending on a weapon and Phtm Strike for damage, while Int/Dex is focused on EBD (max DW, DR)? Not sure which one makes more sense in the long run.

There are ups and downs to both. Str/Dex Diviner does fine up to end Epic because DR/TR and PS are overpowering. However, in Legendary, these skills stop killing outright and will only, at best, disable your foes for a while. Dream epitomises the saying "Dominate in Normal, struggle in Legendary". Try DR/TR or PS against the Hydra, for example. These skills, even at max +4, barely scratch it. Dream excels as support for a genuine high damage mastery like Hunting or Warfare. That's why Harbs and Harus are so popular. When Dream is the primary damage dealing mastery, it doesn't fare quite as well.

So you have to muster the Str and physical damage boosts - along with enough OA and DA - to get the job done. For a toon with no Str or melee attacking help from Spirit, no Dex from Dream, and only a moderately good LMB attack skill in Psi Touch, it places quite a high emphasis on having good gear. Suffice it to say, you're not going to be killing with the same ferocious power as a Warfare or Hunting toon. Although Spirit is always good against bosses due to the LK/Outsider combo.

On the Int side, you get an awful lot more tools from the masteries as both Spirit and Dream give multiple skills which either add flat Vit damage or +% Vit or +% Total or -Vit resistance (Necrosis). Plus investing primarily in Int gives your DR/TR and DW/PI a lot more sting and they remain trash-killing skills rather than mere crowd control skills - which is what they become with Str builds.

The downside is that good gear (Dire of Nightmares sword) is hard to find. Plus you get less armour protection as you are likely to wear cloth. So using your CC skills well, while increasing your DA and OA as much as possible with gear, are high priorities. Wearing cloth is not something to fear, I've been surprised at just how hardy my Int/Vit Diviner is even in late-ish Legendary. But it's not a Conq or Warden, that's for sure.

I think both approaches are viable but I wouldn't classify either as being in the Slayer/Spellbreaker/Harb/Champ/Conq/Warden class of "flatten everything and then dance on its face". The one big plus that Diviner (along with all Spirit melee builds) gets is that you need never worry about life leeching. For Spirit, ADCtH works against everything so you can leech back great gobs of Health even from Traps. So staying alive isn't the big challenge. However, killing things quickly is tricky. You just don't have an Onslaught, Study Prey or Battle Standard type of killer skill to fall back on.

You could, of course, go all out for -% Health Reduction attacks (...of Harrowing weapons, Rancor, etc) as Spirit excels at that and it's not dependent on attribs. But then you'd be better served going staff and Ternion from the get-go.

The Str/Dex approach is ultimately safer as it offers a much wider range of viable weapons. The Int/Dex version absolutely must have the fastest dual-Vitality affix sword you can find. And absolutely must have Fury's Heartblood in it. And absolutely must have either a Dreadful amulet or Vile Ichors in your rings. You really need to stack up those flat and +% Vit sources in order to make it work. If you don't twink, things can get a bit desperate for the Int/Dex style if you don't find the right weapon.

Still, whichever route you go, it's a fun toon with powerful pets and great crowd control. That alone is enough to get you through about 90% of the game.