Need help being a Tank

[Farhang]

Hello gentlemen. I hope you are doing well. :)

Well this is my first post. :)

I`m new to TQ but I've been playing RGP/Hack 'n Slash games for years.

I always like to be the best Tank possible.

Before I started playing TQ, I searched FAQ's for help on how to build the best possible Tank.

I read that the combination of "Nature" and "Defense" is the best Tank in the game.

So I started building my Tank as the FAQ said, and so far I`m doing good.

But the problem is I have to spread attribute points into everything (Str, Dex, Int) in no particular order which is making my character rather weak.

So now I began to think that Nature+Defense was not a very good idea as my character is getting overall weak and I`m sure I can't handle higher difficulties.

Since I`m not very far into the game I want to start a new game.

So I want to ask for your help on making a powerful Tank. Which tree should I start with? How should I spend my points? Which abilities to invest on?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. :)

PS: Sorry for my bad English. It's far from my native language. :o

[erik776]

the first that comes to mind is the conquerer, using defence and warfare, however this is not the best for tanking damage but rather the best balanced tank between not being hit and killing the enemy. another good tank is the templar, defence and dream, this build is good at tanking damage due to the trances while also having good crowd control. one tank that you wouldn't expect is pionas's theurgist build found here http://www.titanquest.net/tq-forum/threads/25924-Guide-Pwning-with-Spirit

[Irma2]

Why would you invest in Int as a Guardian? There is nothing in either mastery tree that benefits from Int.

[Farhang]

the first that comes to mind is the conquerer, using defence and warfare, however this is not the best for tanking damage but rather the best balanced tank between not being hit and killing the enemy. another good tank is the templar, defence and dream, this build is good at tanking damage due to the trances while also having good crowd control. one tank that you wouldn't expect is pionas's theurgist build found here http://www.titanquest.net/tq-forum/threads/25924-Guide-Pwning-with-Spirit

Hi. Thanks for taking the time and answer my question. Appreciate your help.


Why would you invest in Int as a Guardian? There is nothing in either mastery tree that benefits from Int.

Hi. Thanks for taking the time and answer my question.
To be quite honest with you, I had no idea how to spend my attribute points, so I went ahead and did as the FAQ said. It said that do a "Hybrid" and spend my attributes like this: "For every 3 points in Str, spend 1 point in Dex and 1 point in Int"

Judging by your comment, I guess it was a pretty bad investment.

Thanks. Much appreciate it.

[Solitaire]

Defense + anything = tank :D

+ Warfare = overall killing speed, +%dodge attack, +physical/pierce resist, and then there's Battle Standard's Damage Absorption and Triumph's -%Damage debuff...

+ Hunting = +50% DA from Wood Lore, some regen and lots of +Poison resist, +move speed and LOTS of +%CtAP, and decoys with Provoke drawing the flak from you. And a wee net that comes in handy on occasion...

+ Rogue = Protection via massed crowd control measures - Envenom gives attacks the ability to Slow, Fumble and Confuse mobs, Knives can spread Envenom from afar, and Flash Powder causes extreme Fumble and Confuse status in a huge AoE at high levels

+ Dream = ToC gives Health and Energy regen and some lovely Damage Absorption, +30% OA/DA, +%CtAP, +% Total Speed and +Slow Resist from Lucid Dream tree, a pet that tanks, confuses, and generally draws some fire away from you and powerful skills and spells that tend to throw around Slow, Stun and Petrify as well as lots of damage!

+ Spirit = Deathchill tree destroys enemies' Vitality and Life Drain resist as well as causing -%Total Speed and -%physical/pierce damage debuffs on them All you need do is get a weapon with %ADCtH and hit mobs with it. Voila! Eternal life :D Also protection from and damage to undeads, powerful pets, a panic-button skill that makes mobs run in fear, and an emergency health regeneration skill to boot

+ Storm = sacrificing raw protection for crowd control. Thunderball is weak even for mages but deals a load of Stun. Freezing Blast locks mobs in a small-medium area down for a few seconds. And then there's Squall... dealing damage in a huge AoE, destroying ranged mobs' fighting ability and reducing mob resistances and physical damage output. Fun. There's also a defensive aura that deals damage and stuns in an AoE whenever enemy attacks trigger it, and a near-immortal pet that stuns and casts a buff that boosts Cold/Lightning resistances and boosts all elemental damage in a big AoE.

+ Earth = Fire resistance and armor buffs, a skill that regenerates health while making you immobile and invincible for a few seconds, a cheap shield that blocks Fire damage but is more useful for the passive physical resistance it grants while active, and an aura that deals damage while reducing mobs' physical attack damage.

+ Nature = Hugely fun but ruinously skill-point-intensive. HoO boosts Health miles while also giving +%Total Speed, reducing Energy costs and boosting elemental resists. Cheeky healing spell for you and pets. Wolves deal nice damage and later on get an AoE aura that boosts Armor, Total Speed and Energy Regen as well as a huge wad of +%physical damage. Plague is an unpredicatble but powerful debuff that reduces enemy speed and damage output. And Briar Ward blocks mobs' advance and can give you bossted regen and Damage Absorption.

Paladin (+ Storm) can work well as a Str build, Int-melee build or hybrid. Juggernaut (+Earth) works best as a hybrid dealing both Physical and Fire damage and is tricky to get right. The others are all far better off as Str-based classes.

[Farhang]

Woah!

Thanks a lot Solitaire for the great explanation. Really appreciate it.

[Farhang]

Hello again.

Can any of you gentlemen give me some tips on how to build a good "Guardian" (Nature+Defense).
Cause I really like to build one.
Like which tree to start with or which abilities are must-have, etc. (Mostly for Tanking of course)

Thanks. Much appreciate it. This Forum is the best.

[Irma2]

Although Guardian is highly regarded as a tank, I find the conventional Defense builds (Conq, Templar, Warden) to both be more tanky and do better damage. Of all my Defense builds, Guardian has actually died the most. It's also not a particularly exciting build to play, with not many active skills.

Still, if you want to build one, I would recommend starting with Defense and assigning attrib points 1:1 Str: Dex until you reach at least 400 Dex or so. Thereafter, it's a case of examining your OA and DA and seeing whether your boosts from gear will allow you to focus on Str from then on. I would never put any points into Heath, Int or Energy as a Guardian. Heart of Oak sees to their Health needs, they get more energy than they need thanks to Nature's generous allotment, and Int does no good for them.

The problem with Guardian imo is that it takes forever for the build to reach peak power. There are just way too many skills and trees that you need at a good level to even hope that you'll glimpse the build's power during the first half of the game (i.e. up until Act III Epic).

I would, as with all builds where I start with Defense, rush up the mastery tree early to get Pulverize and Colossus Form. Then I would focus on maxing out the shield passives, getting a decent start in the Adrenaline, Rally and Battle Awareness trees along with Shield Charge, and putting some points as well into Quick Recovery and Armor Handling.

With all of that to focus on, the sum total of my investment in Nature in Normal would be to max out the mastery and put one point into Heart of Oak, more for the speed boost than the HP boost. And that's it. Nothing else in Nature, everything in Defense.

In early Epic, I would set about the Wolves, Strength of the Pack and the Plague tree. I would also look to max out Quick Recovery and Focus in late Epic, in preparation for Legendary. I don't like the skill that much in Normal and Epic because you can't find shields with high enough block % (even with QR and Foucs) to get up to 100%.

That still leaves you with a barrowload of skills to invest in during Legendary - Regrowth and Briar Ward if you want it, the Wolves' other synergies like Maul and Survival Instinct, Heart of Oak and Permanence of Stone, Batter if you want it, things like Vengeance and Concussive Blow. You will never ever run out of things to invest in as a Guardian.

By end game, I'd be looking at something like this (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Guardian&master1=4&master2=5&sa=21&m1=32-0-16-12-0-1-8-0-1-8-1-0-0-1-6-12-1-8-0-0-1-0&m2=32-0-1-0-6-1-1-8-6-6-6-1-6-0-6-8-2-6-12-1-6-0). That's taken me to the high 60s and there are certain trees still untouched. But that would be the basic build that I'd aim for.

You can save yourself a bunch of points and start expanding into other trees by equipping items with a total of more than +4 to all skills. If you could get +6 via, say, Legendary SBC (+3), a Hallowed helm (+1) and Sacred amulet (+2). then you could spread your points a bit thinner and end with something like this (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Guardian&master1=4&master2=5&sa=21&m1=32-6-14-10-4-4-6-1-4-6-1-8-1-1-4-10-1-6-0-1-1-0&m2=32-6-1-0-4-1-1-6-4-4-4-1-4-0-4-6-1-4-10-6-4-0). As you can see, stopping each skill 2 points short of max and still getting the skill at max +4 does open up new options and more skills and trees.

Whatever you do, resist the idea to make it a hybrid. Defenders hit with their shields and shields do physical damage. Strength of the Pack boosts physical damage, Colossus Form boosts physical damage and Strength (which again boosts physical damage), Defensive Reaction boosts physical damage, Shield Charge deals physical damage, and Susceptibility reduces physical damage resistance. In addition, Concussive Blow only works with clubs, which do physical damage. You do not have a single skill that boosts elemental damage and only one skill (Susceptibility) that reduces resistance to it. Compared to the suite of skills that increase physical damage, elemental damage cannot compare for a Guardian. Find yourself a nice big hurty club and that's all you need.

With Concussive Blow and the stun from your Shield Charges, you can also focus a bit on stunning as a tactic. So items like Adroit Loop or relics/charms with +% Chance to Stun as completion bonus can work well.

But other than that, gear is the same old story that you'll find with conventional melee toons. You want +% Str, +% speed (attack or total), and boosts to OA and DA especially as Guardian lacks both. You will also want Pierce, Poison and Vitality resistances at good levels. Guardian gets a break with other resistances. You never need stun as Iron Will takes care of that, and Permanence of Stone/Vengeance give you a huge dollop of elemental resistance (albeit temporary in Vengeance's case). Still, it should be enough to get you through most boss fights.

With Colossus Form and Quick Recovery/Focus, you can also become very tanky and soak up huge amounts of damage. But don't get shot away with damage mitigation. Guardian forfeits a bunch of damage by not getting Str from Nature and no +% damage attack skills either. So even with Strength of the Pack, Pulverize, Shield Charge, etc, you still want as much +% damage and +% speed help as you can get. Clubs are slow weapons, so you have lots of headroom to buff your attack speed.

Defense gets enough tankiness innately from its skills and a good shield. Shift your equipment focus to damage and you'll get a nice rounded toon that can not only survive well but kill at a decent lick too.

[Farhang]

WOAH!!!!! HOLY $#... :eek:

Thanks a lot Irma2, you're the best!

Really appreciate it. :)

[Magic Missile]

I wouldn't recommend Guardian. Now, it's not a bad build, and it has really high defense. But offense is lacking. End result? Mobs live longer, attack more and well... you die as much or more anyways. And are slower. If you do, Irma went into it in great detail.

I'd recommend a Conqueror or Warden. Both are quite solid, but in different ways.

Warden is straightforward enough. Defense first, to get at least one point in all the shield skills. It really is worth it to make a mad dash for the last shield proc skill, though there's plenty of winners on the Defense tree. Hunting meanwhile offers a lot of piercing damage, some passives, and other nice effects, making it great for spear/shield builds to wreck face like Spartans.

For Conqueror, you have a choice. Weapon and shield, or dual wield. For the former, go for Defense and the shield procs first. For the latter, Warfare and dual wielding first. Battle Standard (MAX!) and Battle Rage (1 point) are very worth it as early as possible. The difference is huge, and even bigger if you don't have good gear. The dual wielder will do a great deal of damage, killing bosses or groups incredibly fast. The weapon and shield Conqueror will kill slower, and kill groups a lot slower, but will also have better resists, ability to block attacks, etc. Obviously, the dual wielder should ignore skills that enhance or use the shield, while the shield user should jump for them (and ignore Dual Wield). War Horn makes a nice panic button if you need it, even at 1 point, at least for a while.

Don't have the time to go into great detail about it today, but let me know if you want more detail.

[Farhang]

Thanks a lot Magic Missile for taking the time and helping me.

I still haven't started the game as a Guardian. I`m using the "Pwning with Spirit" guide at the moment and it's really good.

But to be honest with you, I hate being a Mage. (I mean using Staff and other Mage gears)

Judging by your comment and Irma2's comment, I've come to the conclusion that the Guardian is a pretty bad choice (even though I really like the idea of a Tank plus Wolf pets)

But I`m gonna go with Irma2's guide for making a Guardian because as I said I really like it. But I get into trouble I will give it up and start with Conquerer or Warden as you've suggested.

Thanks. Really appreciate it.

[convittre]

Guardian is definitely the best tank. The pets are living nukes. With Defense, going through Normal is just a piece of cake. Once you get to Epic, get the wolves and if you stack up a lot of gears which have pet boni (they're dropped quite often and are also sold by the NPCs), you'll do huge damage (3x wolves + yourself + maybe the Nymph).

The problem with Guardian is that your process will be slow. I would start with Nature and get the wolves at least to lvl 7 (so you get 2 of them), this way you can go through the first part of the game quickly and easily. You can buy the points back and invest into Defense when the wolves are not effective anymore.

[Farhang]

Thanks a lot convittre for your comment.

Just one question, how can I buy my points back? Is it something that happens in late game?

Thanks. Appreciate it.

[defboy99]

Hey Farhang. When you arrive in Delphi, you'll see a Mystic standing by the town portal. A Mystic is an NPC with a blue sphere hovering over its head. You can buy back skill points from Mystics for a few thousand gold each, and each time you buy back a skill point, the price increases a little. You'll also find Mystics in other towns as well, but the first one you'll come across is in Delphi, so you're stuck with your skill point allocation until then. Fortunately, Delphi is still relatively early in Greece, so you'll be able to buy back skill points early in the game.

[Farhang]

Thanks a lot defboy99 for taking the time and answering my question.

I`m actually on my way to Delphi. Just finished the side quest about finding some chests in the shore.

[Farhang]

Sorry guys to ask so much questions but I have one more thing to ask. :o

Can you look into this build and tell me where to improve:
TitanCalc 0.65 (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Spellbreaker&master1=2&master2=3&sa=21&m1=32-6-0-0-8-0-1-0-0-16-1-0-8-0-12-0-1-0-1-1-0-0&m2=32-6-1-8-0-0-6-0-0-0-10-8-0-6-0-0-1-0-0-6-0-0)

I`m trying to build a warrior with demonic powers or something like that. Not a caster. A warrior with dark powers. Something like a Demon Prince.

Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. :)

[Solitaire]

Harbinger may be closer to the mark, but even then you're still only using the spells for crowd control. With either class its the melee combat that's the main source of your damage.

[Farhang]

YES! You're right.

Thank God there are lots of thread regarding Harbinger in this forums.

Thanks Solitaire, much appreciate it.

[Farhang]

One last question guys.

What's the best way to spend attributes for a Harbinger?

1:1 (Str : Dex) or 3:1 (Str : Dex)

Thanks. Appreciate it.

[Irma2]

1:1. At least until you hit 400 Dex or so. Harbs get 114 Dex from masteries. Add 20 or so from Stygian Lurker quest X3 for 134 Dex. End game is about level 65 X 2 attrib points per level = 128 attrib points plus 21 as quest rewards = 149 attrib points. At 3:1, that gives around 37 points into Dex. Multiply by four Dex for each attrib point = 148 Dex. Add to the original 134 Dex and you have 282 Dex. That's around 100 Dex less than you need for Legendary Stonebinder's Cuffs.

It also gives you base DA of 282. Harb can get away with lower Dex-based OA because it gets Battle Rage, Weapon Training, Premonition and Hamstring to make up for it. But Premonition is the only DA help it gets. Trying to boost DA to >1k off a base of 282 Dex is a tall order. My Harb has around 450 Dex and is still the wrong side of 1k DA in Legendary.

[erik776]

id suggest 1:1 until you get your dex to the level you need for your end game gear. id also suggest you do some research into your end game gear so you can work out what dex you need. once you've reached the dex you want to put your points into strength.

[Farhang]

Thanks a lot Irma and erik for your help. Really appreciate it. :rockon:

[Farhang]

Didn't want to start another thread, so I`m gonna explain my problem here:

Started the game and wanted to be Harbinger. Everything worked perfect and I was quite happy up until I reached Cyclops.

I can't hurt him and he can kill me with a few hits. I died once. So I decided to come here before I continue.

It's really weird cause I defeated the three undead prince just before the Cyclops easily.

Here's how my character looks like: (Level 10)
TitanCalc 0.65 (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Harbinger&master1=3&master2=9&sa=1&m1=4-6-1-8-0-0-6-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&m2=3-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0)

Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated!

[Solitaire]

You've jumped the gun and pumped your skills waaay too early. Not that tier-rushing is always the solution, but you should still be a lot further up the Mastery tiers and have more skills, albeit with fewer points in each.

And in Normal dodging Polypehmus' attacks is vital - Sonic Roar inflicts huge damage and stun, Earth Render can one-shot weaker casters and nearly halve a strong toon's health from max. Even the Foot Stomp can inflict a decent lick of physical damage and stun. Circle him and run in for a few cheap shots after dodging his attacks.

[convittre]

Try using a bow, just dodge and shoot. Run back to the other side of the bridge, he won't follow you and you'll have chance to shoot from his back.

[Farhang]

Try using a bow, just dodge and shoot. Run back to the other side of the bridge, he won't follow you and you'll have chance to shoot from his back.

Thanks a lot man. That strategy worked perfectly. I used the bow I salvaged from the Undead Prince earlier and I did as you said and killed Cyclops without even using a health potion!

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/Maiden_rule/th_screenshot00.jpg (http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/Maiden_rule/screenshot00.jpg)


You've jumped the gun and pumped your skills waaay too early. Not that tier-rushing is always the solution, but you should still be a lot further up the Mastery tiers and have more skills, albeit with fewer points in each.

And in Normal dodging Polypehmus' attacks is vital - Sonic Roar inflicts huge damage and stun, Earth Render can one-shot weaker casters and nearly halve a strong toon's health from max. Even the Foot Stomp can inflict a decent lick of physical damage and stun. Circle him and run in for a few cheap shots after dodging his attacks.

Yeah I know what you mean. To be honest with you, I just wanted to be done with Warfare tree cause my main focus will be the Dream Tree, but I will do as you said from now on and will focus on reaching better abilities rather than just going max on few abilities.


Thanks a lot guys, you are the bests! :)