Templar: better than Haruspex?

[LinearConvolution]

I don't have much experience with TQIT, I just made 2 characters and got them through Normal.
My first char. was a Conjurer, my second was a Templar. I definitely like the Templar over the Conjurer.

So, although I lack the experience and knowledge that many of you out there have, I'm proposing that the Templar may actually fit the bill of survival-ability more than the Haruspex. Please keep in mind that no class is "stronger" than another, it's just a matter of preference and playstyle, after all, TQ is a role-playing game.

I'd be glad to know what you guys think! Templar or Haruspex, which do you prefer as an attrition class?

[Buy4now]

Hmmm, an interesting comparison -- Templar vs. Haruspex for attrition/survivability. Both have excellent long term survivability in the game, but my preference is a haruspex for 2 reasons -- the added piercing damage from spears and the versatility of switching to a bow. Eventually, most of my non-warfare melee characters used a spear down the road, so getting the added benefits of the hunter class for the spear really helped me. Being able to switch to a bow build for some parts of the game while maintaining great lethality and speed really helped as well.

But that's just my preference... as the weight loss programs are quick to point out "results may vary".

[Irma2]

If I had to play through the game hardcore, I'd choose Haruspex for one simple reason - it can wield a bow without sacrificing its close-up power. The ability to strike from range makes a lot of fights much easier. Think about Typhon for example - no challenge for an archer, plenty problems for a melee toon in Normal.

That said, Templar gets Phantom Strike, which is just about the same as attacking from range. Launch PS, enemy turns its back, you get a free hit, run away, wait for PS to recharge. What's not to like about that?

[LinearConvolution]

Thanks for the great feedback, buy4now! Haha, "results may vary".

The option of switching to a bow is definitely welcome at certain points in the game, though I never realized how good spears were. I guess, since I used psionic touch, I generally preferred weapons with fast attack rates, but seeing it in the context of a Haruspex, the spear can definitely become much more lethal than any weapon wielded by a Templar.

Still, what I love most about the Templar is not his damage output, but his damage reflection. Trance of Empathy + Rally's Synergy (Defiance) can give you 120% damage reflection, and Artifacts like Soul Shiver combined with ToE and some good gear can let you heal for all the damage you deal. (Heh, that rhymes).

Would you mind sharing your Haruspex build? I'd really appreciate it!

If you're interested, here's my Templar build (I'm still in Epic, this is just the ideal/final version of the build, I haven't attained it yet).

http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&sa=14&m1=32-0-1-0-1-1-1-8-6-6-6-0-0-0-6-8-1-0-12-8-6-0&m2=32-0-1-1-12-8-0-6-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-1-6-1-0-0-12-0

[LinearConvolution]

@Irma2, thanks for replying!

Typhon definitely presented a problem for my Templar. Though, I never bothered investing in Phantom Strike (I probably should have). Phantom Strike seems really good early-mid game, but I think when you hit legendary, it's more useful to have -recharge gear so that you can maintain Rally (and it's synergy Defiance), Colossus Form, and Quick Recovery. Those skills combined with Trance of Empathy and some of the Lucid Dream tree stuff can allow you to tank almost anything, from mobs to bosses. And they usually kill themselves with damage reflection, which is fun to watch ;)

[ASYLUM101]

Templar and Haruspex are very similar builds endgame.

Haruspex : Dodge every projectile possible and get super high DA (easily) to make an invincible class.

Templar: Dodge some projectiles, get a pretty decent DA(easily), and block everything else with quick recovery to make an invincible class.

Differences: templar has more AoE skills(unless haru goes ranged.), templar uses clubs, axes and swords, haru uses spears/bows. templar has 3 great heals(ToC, Rally, and Adrenaline), haru has two(ToC and Herbal Remedy). templar has the ultimate "tank" mode (colossus), Haru has the ultimate "kill" mode. (call of the hunt and study prey. oh, and then phantom strike.)

I had a haruspex and got her to level 30, then my HDD failed. :( She was the only one I forgot to back up lol.

My templar on the other hand started slow, but by the time she got to level 40, she became a steam roller and I managed to beat the game by level 52 or so. Insanity. :) I like templar better cause shield bashes are great, and spamming quick recovery is easier than wasting a ton of gear on survival crap (or recharge crap). I had mine specced as reflection at first, but it gets boring (and weak) after a while.

[Irma2]

Added to which, both can put mobs to sleep for insane amounts of time, both can petrify mobs for insane amounts of time, and both get a one-point pet that can tank the toughest bosses in the game.

[Buy4now]

The templar has a corner on the single target reflection market, just like the evoker has the corner on the auramancer market. If you love the notion of reflecting damage, the ritualist might hold some appeal for you as well. You can create an army of pets, protect them under a Trance of Empathy, and heal them while bosses literally kill themselves trying to destroy your managerie. I've dabbled with the non-pet reflection builds, but I kept getting hung up on the fact that you have to be able to take the punch in order to reflect it back. I always hoped it would work like a mirror effect -- bounce off of me and stick to you. The ritualist has the added benefit of "sacrificial" pets that can be recast along with Briarward (each thorn has its own hit points that reflect damage back to the mob under ToE). Throw a Greater Scroll of Djinn for the raging fatboy that looks like Jabba the Hut buffing everyone in sight ....lights out for most bosses/mobs.

Edit: Those nasty bosses that turn your pets against you can present a problem, but you just have to have a little more patience with them. Pets always warm back up to you after you run far enough away from the boss, hehe.

That's a good looking templar build you have there. The classic ToE/Defiance combo along with some reflection gear and you'll be plowing through the game. You might want to consider a point in Distortion Field, Summon Nightmare, and Hypnotic Gaze at the next level up for the occassional Damage Absorption and post-normal tanking pet.

Here are a couple of Haruspex builds that I switch between:

Spear build -- http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Haruspex&master1=7&master2=9&sa=10&m1=32-0-0-6-0-12-1-0-1-0-1-8-0-0-8-1-1-0-6-0-1-0&m2=32-0-1-0-0-8-12-6-1-0-8-0-12-1-1-1-6-0-0-0-12-0
Bow build -- http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Haruspex&master1=7&master2=9&sa=10&m1=32-0-0-6-1-12-1-0-1-0-1-8-12-0-8-1-1-0-0-12-6-0&m2=32-0-0-1-0-8-0-6-1-0-0-0-12-1-1-1-6-0-0-0-8-0

If you can get enough +skills gear, you can make a workable spear AND bow build by the end of epic to keep from having to choose one over the other. Other folks will advocate a bow only build for late game, but I fell in love with my Phorkos' Trident at level 40 and never gave it up.

[Irma2]

I've dabbled with the non-pet reflection builds, but I kept getting hung up on the fact that you have to be able to take the punch in order to reflect it back. I always hoped it would work like a mirror effect -- bounce off of me and stick to you.

It will if you have maxed CAP or Quick Recovery. Haruspex with 100% CAP & ToE is a hoot against 3 X Barmanu.

[Buy4now]

It seems I'm guilty of spreading disinformation in my ritualist reflection suggestion above (50 lashes) -- I've been under the impression that my Briar Ward skill received the benefits of my auras, like Heart of Oak and Trance of Empathy, after the fanpatch reclassified them as pets. But I've been reading up on some other posts that indicate the Briar Ward receives health boosts in Epic and Legendary (like pets), but doesn't receive the aura sharing that other temporary summons receive.

I was hoping to use left over points to jack up my Briar Ward base skill to make mobs impale themselves on it under ToE, but I guess it'll always be a one point wonder to get the maxed Sanctuary benefits above it. What can I say... I'm a lazy petmancer that likes to have others do his dirty work, hehe.

Oh no.... please tell me my big fat Djinn that I summon off a scroll gets my auras!!! I've been counting on him for (1.85 * 5500) = 10,175 of health that can be used to reflect damage back to mobs. I'll probably still use him, but not nearly as much if he doesn't add to my ToE effect.

Sorry, this post is taking the OP off topic, but I need to correct what I mentioned above.

[MooSeKnUcLe]

I like the idea of your Templar build. Sit and take punishment while reflecting it back two fold to the mobs that are swarming you. I have been playing a Bow Haruspex and maxed ToC for the Health Regen. I've stacked my gear with some Viny Growth Charms and Relics of Isis and now have about 70 health regenerated per second. The fact I'm using a bow for ranged attacks combined with my run speed at 166% I can usually get out of any sticky situation long enough to heal. Im only level 30 in act 5 normal though so I don't know how well stacking the Hp regen is going to do me in the long run.