Damage-Conversion (type)

[Kir4]

There's something I really miss in current TQ that would make hybrids much more viable: Items with a percental damage conversion from one type into another.

Example: A battlemage in current TQ is usually a Warrior + "a little fire-stuff".
If he wore a "Example ring of showing what I mean" that offered "xx% conversion physical ito fire", he'd become competitive to many builds and, more important, he'd be much more fun to play.:D

Let me know what you think about that idea and if it's possible to include this effect in TQ.

[ASYLUM101]

Yeah, I agree. I think certain weapons also need something like pure elemental damage. Like prometheus' gift or that glowy orange mace... can't remember the name now... they should deal FIRE damage, not physical and give a teeny boost to fire damage.

[yerkyerk]

Yeah, I agree. I think certain weapons also need something like pure elemental damage. Like prometheus' gift or that glowy orange mace... can't remember the name now... they should deal FIRE damage, not physical and give a teeny boost to fire damage.

This is already discussed somewhere for one weapon, I think... anyway, giving certain weapons other base damage (for uniques, as well as MI's) would probably be very interesting. Cold clubs would do cold damage and certain staffs could do physical damage :) This would open a lot of new possibilities as well as give old, weaker builds a good boost.

[Kir4]

Still, I'd prefer to give non-weapons a damage concersion-effect - otherwise hybrids would be forced to wear certain waepons. Rings, Amulets etc. would grant the ability to use all weapons effectively.

Sounds a little imbalanced at first, but this effect would still cost one slot, meaning one less "Hale Ring of Immortality". Melee strenght would improve by adding a significant elemental boost, but it'd not outclass a classic, strenght-based pure melee-build.

[RBradleyM]

Would it be possible to create a new affix to do this? something like of Fire Conversion, could be any damage type. I agree it should be limited to jewlery and think it should be a rare affix.:happy:

On an unrelated note I would like to propose changing the color of items that grant plus one or two to masteries to green from yellow. Pyromancers would become Pyromancers.

[yerkyerk]

I agree with your unrelated note; though that should belong in a seperate section. There's a bunch of green affixes that should be yellow (e.g. of the succor) and a bunch of yellow affixes that should be green (unshackled, unhindered, etc..)

As for the damage conversion; rather than discussing if and how it should be implemented, I think it should first be investigated if it's possible at all. Since there's no original skill or mechanic that works this way, I kinda doubt this can be implemented. Getting long arguments about nothing doesn't really help the balance patch...

[Kir4]

rather than discussing if and how it should be implemented, I think it should first be investigated if it's possible at all

True. :D

I'm pretty sure it is possible, though, since a damage conversion is a combination of existing game mechanics.

1. Reduce damage type one by a certain amount
2. Increase damage type two by the amount type one was reduced.

As I think about about it... Isn't Blade Honing workig like this? Conversion physical to piercing? That'd make things easier.:happy:

[Poinas]

Physical to pierce is easy to do, because you can find such field in ArtManager. But there are no fields for any other conversions, like physical to fire conversion for example.

[yerkyerk]

Well, by giving weapons other base-damage, we can certainly give the new gameplay elements this would offer. By applying this to MI's and monster-specific items, there can even be a lot of customization in items. It would also offer a more challenging gameplay I reckon, as some monsters would do mostly cold damage, for example, instead of the most used-damage type currently in the game; physical.

[Kir4]

I agree. The omnipresence of physical hitters is definitively something a balance patch should break. And therefore, a different type of base-damage may be the easiest solution.

still, my suggestion wins in terms of aesthetics :D

Just took a look at the "Blade Honing"-skill in the artmanager. The record that converts physical to pierce is called bladehoningbuff.dbr, right? The entry that is important is "OffensivePierceRatio", with the "OffensivePierceRatioModifier".

=> Is it possible to include a "OffensiveFireRatioModifier" and teach the game to read it? I guess part one is easy, but part two may as well be impossible...

[yerkyerk]

I think changing the weapon base damage easily wins over the damage conversion type aesthetically... in fact, I find the total damage conversion a bit ugly... but I guess that's a personal point of view.

As for making it work; I have no idea in that department.

[Poinas]

Sure, you can add such fields into the template. But the game won't know what to do with them, I'm 99,9% sure other conversions have not been coded into the game. Giving us everything that the creators of the game had, then yeah, it would be possible. But as of now, I have no idea how to get it done.

EDIT: I agree that it would be a good solution to use fire etc. as base damage. Bartender! A vitality-based stave for my Diviner, please.

[Kir4]

O.k., so it won't work. Sad.:(

But the aesthetics-question is not answered yet! :D

Viltaly-based staffs sound great and "fitting" since vitality and elemental damage are both based on intelligence. But that'd at least need a new staff-projectile to look good.
And for melee-weapons... well, I'd love to see a flame-based mace for my juggernaut, but I wouldn' want a flame based weapon that looks absolutely normal. I want a burn-animation on it and I want it to glow in the dark.:D

Anyway, I'll stop spamming now and search for a proper thread that deals with this topic.:lol:

[Poinas]

New effects are not too difficult to create, should the balance team wish to create them :cool:

[yerkyerk]

Yea, the effects won't be the problem, I reckon..

A vitality based staff (heh, a fleshstaff?) would open up some doors...

[ASYLUM101]

Woah. Fleshstaff sounds brutal. Or a bleeding staff? Poison staff?

[Kir4]

Bleeding Staff? The projectiles could look like little spikes. And with Arcane Lore, they turn into nailbombs. :twisted:

[ASYLUM101]

Haha, nailbomb staff! Nice. You could use the effect that gouge has from occult(not sure if it's in the original tq), makes a huge blood splash.

[Asheron]

Poison staff?
Now that's I wanted to say today, but you beat me to it :) Poison (or any other strange) dmg based staff would be really cool :)

[Kir4]

Poison-staffs would realls be great! :D My venomancer would finally have a weapon that fits his needs.:nerd:

[Asheron]

^You have Venomancer? I thought only I do such things :lol: So far any "poison" prefix staff did the job... Warlock lvl 37 and counting (just finished normal).
P.S. Sorry for off-topicness :o

[Kir4]

A little off-topicness never hurts... :)

My venomancer is act3 normal. No problems so far, although xmax only. Only thing I'm worried about is the question whether Lich+MonkeyKing+DarkMedicine offer enough debuff... I highly doubt it, since my Venomassassin already faces serious problems (Sapros+Perfect Legtip)

[ASYLUM101]

The thing about a venom staff is that if you use spirit, you receive no negative impact for using Ternion. At level one for ternion, it's -75% elemental damage. If the staff deals piercing, poison, bleeding, vitality, or anything aside from elemental, Ternion attack offers no benefits for reaching max level.

[Kir4]

Sure. That's why I liked the Venomacer-idea.:D Imho, Ternion was waaaaay cooler before IT, having a smaller arc of projectile-spread and, if maxed, a positive elemental-bonus. => The Venomancer doesn't care. :) I'll still max Ternion to deal with unded stuff faster, though.

[ASYLUM101]

I don't think it'd make a difference though. Max ternion applies 15% elemental damage to your staff attack. IF your staff deals poison damage, that bonus will not be applied. Intelligence wouldn't affect it either, because intelligence grants a 10% bonus every 50 points or so. (or was it 60? whatever) So the only thing that ternion would do is enable 3 shots. I don't see how that speeds up killing undead though maxed as opposed to not?

[BrotherRatcliff]

Ternion could be adjusted to also modify whatever damage types we make staves out of though? It could just say -75% to Elemental Vitality and Poison damage.

[ASYLUM101]

That's what it reads in munderbunny's occult mod.

[Kir4]

When I said I'll max Ternion, I meant I'll max it on my current venomancer:D And taking over Occult's Ternion really is a fitting solution. :D Although I don't relly think poison needs to be weakened, since it's already far from being overpowered...

[Asheron]

I use Ternion at lvl 1, it's good because of AoE (Arcane Lore), I wouldn't max it, let Spirit Ward/Bane deal with them, combined with reduce resistance Undead melt away (only the stupid devices refuse to melt,**** them!)

...

I really should write Venomancer guide, I've collected much info so far. :)

[Kir4]

Yup. Write it. If you do, I'll definitely read that guide (and criticize it if it sucks:D). But at first, find a way to break those nasty 100%+ resistances on legendary. :whistle:

[Asheron]

Yup. Write it. If you do, I'll definitely read that guide (and criticize it if it sucks:D). But at first, find a way to break those nasty 100%+ resistances on legendary. :whistle:
It's on :) When (and if) I manage to complete Legendary using poison, you'll get PM-ed to read the guide :D

[Kir4]

Alright. Looking forward to it.:D

P.S.: Devices indeed won't melt, but you could consider maxing "Disarm Traps".:D Now, only constructs are left... another possible balance-patch-improvement: Let DT worl against constructs! :rockon:

[Munderbunny]

About the multiple damage types: it's totally doable. The game accepts multiple damage types in the base damage section; in Occult, a number of unique staves have been changed to do half-elemental and half-vitality damage, with their own effects.

A long time ago, I was going to make elemental weapons that were half elemental damage and half physical (axes with half fire, clubs with half cold, and swords with half lightning), and the magic vendor could sell them in his magic weapon slots instead of his crap yellows. However, it's a ton of work, but it would be worth it. So, someone please do this with the balance patch so I can have it too, k thnx.

[Asheron]

One thing always buggered me: why there are no rings that give +%poison/bleeding damage? Like Of Fire/Frost/Thunder and Unholy/Forsaken/Accursed. That should be in Balance patch also :)

[Kir4]

@ Munder: Nice! So you have again been faster than the rest of the dev-community... ;) Did you design new projectiles for your hybrid-staves or did you use the projectile of the elemental-part?
Are there staves in occult that don't deal any elemental damage at all??

@Ash: I don't think poison needs +% on rings, since you get a huge amount of relative increase from gear ("profaned" & co. on most armour, "of guile" on amulets). Absolute increase ("venoumous" affix) already exists, and is more useful. Get your calculator an check it.:) Bleeding damage on rigs would be nice, though. Maybe it'd be usable then... (Melee-Bleeding-Warlock :rockon:)

[Asheron]

Yeah,when I think about it, it's not necessary, since there are more ways to gain +%poison damage...
You say Venomous can spawn on rings? I have never encountered that, my highest is Poisonous and that requires lvl 8, can you post screenshot of that affix if you posses one?

[Kir4]

Sorry, just mixed 'em up... no "venomous" on rings. At least for me.:) But I have one that requires level 25.....

....becaue of it's suffix.

:(

[Asheron]

D*mn you! >_< you got my hopes up...

Well never mind, at least we cleared that :)

[Munderbunny]

@ Munder: Nice! So you have again been faster than the rest of the dev-community... ;)

Oh no you DENT!! I'm not one of those people who lies about stupid **** like this! I take ideas the members of the community have proposed all the time, and am not secretive about it--and I give credit where credit is due, but the dual-damage weapons idea is something I've talked about for a long time--in fact like 6 months ago or something INSANE was offering to help me make them when I was contemplating scrapping the occult vendor entirely.


Did you design new projectiles for your hybrid-staves or did you use the projectile of the elemental-part?

YES DUDE, I used the elemental projectile effect and added 2 splotchy emmiters from the new vitality staff projectiles. I made those effects early April. You can ask Yerky or Jiaco or Kaets, I've been telling them about them for a while, and the last version of Occult I sent Jiaco a month ago had them in it.

The full list of unique staves changed as part of the vitality staff conversion is:


Name Dam Type Act LVL
Summoner's Rod Fire E 42
Soul Quencher Pure E 44
Hoarfrost Cold E 46
Archon's Judgment Lightning E 50
Geras' Walking Stick Cold E 50
Fingerbone of Boreas Cold L 59
Hades' Scepter Pure L 59
Hecate's Rod Cold L 59
Kuan Ti's Sorrow All L 59
Moros Nyx Pure L 59
Scepter of Carnus*[Immortal Throne] Lightning L 64
Praxidikae*[Immortal Throne] Fire L 69
Elafros Lightning N 12
Necromancer's Staff Cold N 12
Ochetos Staff Pure N 14
Siphon Pure N 14
Staff of Kheprer Cold N 20
Spectral Rod Cold N 22
Scepter of Erebus*[Immortal Throne] Pure N 33


Are there staves in occult that don't deal any elemental damage at all??

omg, yes. There's a full series of vitality staves spanning all difficulties, as well as the changed uniques, the changed monster infrequents, and a new mythic vitality staff.

**** like this makes me want to scrap the stupid blood cave and release the mod JUST to prove I've actually done it, lol.

[ASYLUM101]

Woah, someone is excited for the fourth....

lmao, cool stuff munderbuns.

[Acerbatus]

I would love to read it too, reading these posts makes me want to try such a toon too.
Never thought of using Ternion to spread poison.

[Kir4]

@Munder:


@ Munder: Nice! So you have again been faster than the rest of the dev-community...


Oh no you DENT!! I'm not one of those people who lies about stupid **** like this!

Now what was THAT?? I just said that you already included those weapons, wereas there still under discussion for a balance patch. This was meant to be positive feedback, dude, not anything offensive... and the "again" refers to the change of classnames. Sorry if my choice of words was mistakable... (although I still don't see any mistakable phrases)

[Munderbunny]

heh, it was the winking smiley...and a near half-gallon of green tea. That **** will bug you out.

[Kir4]

O.K. then, nevermind. I'm a tea-junkie myself, so I understand what that stuff can do to you... I'm really looking forward to Occult, and I appreciate the hard work you invest.