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View Full Version : What skills AREN'T good in warfare?



Bearstorm
07-06-2006, 10:21 AM
I was gonna go all warfare for normal difficulty to get really a feel of what I would want to match with this guy instead of making 100 alts like I have been. I'm looking at the tree though and everything looks/plays fantastic. In your opinion any of them don't actually play out like they look on paper though? Is there any that look bad on paper but actually play out fantastic? (Duel wield for instance sure doesn't "feel" like 22percent in my opinion)

I appreciate any comments on this topic :)

Xaece
07-06-2006, 10:39 AM
I was gonna go all warfare for normal difficulty to get really a feel of what I would want to match with this guy instead of making 100 alts like I have been. I'm looking at the tree though and everything looks/plays fantastic. In your opinion any of them don't actually play out like they look on paper though? Is there any that look bad on paper but actually play out fantastic? (Duel wield for instance sure doesn't "feel" like 22percent in my opinion)

I appreciate any comments on this topic :)
Unfortunately, all of the skills are good.

Taking from what I said in another thread.


The way -all- WeaponPool attacks work, is they take out an amount of your 'normal attack chance' and replace it with a chance of the proc.

So for Defense/Hunters, if you have lv 6 Volley, lv 6 Pulverize, lv 6 Shield Bash, and lv 6 Disable, then you have a 64% chance to use a special attack.

Not sure which order the skills 'look' up in the weapon pool for ease of sake.

The game sees you have lv 6 Shield Bash, it reserves 16 'lots' out of the 100 lots. If the game rolls a 1-16, Shield Bash triggers.
The game now sees you have Disable, it reserves another 16 lots out of the 100 total, but wait, 1-16 have already been reserved so it tacks onto 17 and up. If the game rolls a 17-32, Disable triggers.
The game now adds in Pulverize, same deal with Disable, it tacks it onto 33 and up. So, if the game rolls a 33-48, Pulverize triggers.
And lastly we figure in Volley, which is put into 49-64. Which leaves 65-100 as unreserved lots and perform the standard attack.
This works the same way for Dual-Wield attacks. The 1st Dual Wield skill with 22% would reserve 1-22, Hew reserves 23-32, Cross Cut reserves 33-42, and Tumult would reserve 43-52. Unlike the Shield users however, the remaining lots are split between using the left only or right only weapons, so 53-76 is for right hand and 77-100 is for left hand.

Bearstorm
07-06-2006, 10:51 AM
You are killing me! If you had to choose to drop any of them what would it be? Maybe the dodge one perhaps? I'm not sure... going just all Warfare is tempting, but wouldn't that be a little dull?

Xaece
07-06-2006, 10:54 AM
You are killing me! If you had to choose to drop any of them what would it be? Maybe the dodge one perhaps? I'm not sure... going just all Warfare is tempting, but wouldn't that be a little dull?
As a Warfare going Dualwield you definitely do NOT want to drop the Dodge. The lack of shield makes it so you need that ability to outright dodge melee attacks (You will not be able to dodge ranged with it however).

A lot of the skills, 1 pt will suffice in them, but skipping them completely is a bad choice imho.

Tiberian
07-06-2006, 11:17 AM
I skipped the Battle Rage tree and War Wind. They seemed pretty weak compared to all the other skills.

Xaece
07-06-2006, 11:19 AM
I skipped the Battle Rage tree and War Wind. They seemed pretty weak compared to all the other skills.
And yet, they're not. Warwind can strike up to 6-7 enemies when its max'd out. And Battle Rage, you're going to get hit no matter what you do, once it triggers that +50% OA garuntees that just about every hit you make WILL crit.

Combine the two together, and you can crit up to 7 enemies for thousands of damage easily.

EDIT: A note, you only need 1 pt in Battle Rage, its one of those 1 pt wonders again. Warwind is the same way, however its Modifier adds Bleed damage and is what increases the number of targets you hit, that part is what you want to max out. Warwind itself is more or less a 1pt wonder as well.

tweaker
07-06-2006, 11:22 AM
And yet, they're not. Warwind can strike up to 6-7 enemies when its max'd out. And Battle Rage, you're going to get hit no matter what you do, once it triggers that +50% OA garuntees that just about every hit you make WILL crit.

Combine the two together, and you can crit up to 7 enemies for thousands of damage easily.

EDIT: A note, you only need 1 pt in Battle Rage, its one of those 1 pt wonders again. Warwind is the same way, however its Modifier adds Bleed damage and is what increases the number of targets you hit, that part is what you want to max out. Warwind itself is more or less a 1pt wonder as well.

i have 1 point into warwind and 1 into battle rage.. what should they be ideally @ lvl 20

Tiberian
07-06-2006, 11:23 AM
And yet, they're not. Warwind can strike up to 6-7 enemies when its max'd out. And Battle Rage, you're going to get hit no matter what you do, once it triggers that +50% OA garuntees that just about every hit you make WILL crit.

Combine the two together, and you can crit up to 7 enemies for thousands of damage easily.
But there's never been a time I thought "gee, I wish I could hit all the enemies around me while spending a huge chunk of energy.". Normal enemies drop too fast to worry about war winding, and boss and their cronies are negated with battle standard and the horn tree. There's just not enough point to go around, and Battle Rage and War Wind don't seem to be able to imporve efficiency more than the other skills.

desnok214
07-06-2006, 11:25 AM
I still only have 1 point in Battle Rage at level 45.

Xaece
07-06-2006, 11:32 AM
But there's never been a time I thought "gee, I wish I could hit all the enemies around me while spending a huge chunk of energy.". Normal enemies drop too fast to worry about war winding, and boss and their cronies are negated with battle standard and the horn tree. There's just not enough point to go around, and Battle Rage and War Wind don't seem to be able to imporve efficiency more than the other skills.
Well, thats your opinion then. Mine differs. I never have to worry about energy. Perhaps the way you fight is different from mine as well, I rather enjoy having lots of enemies around to AoE, though I can see others prefering to take enemies on one at a time.


i have 1 point into warwind and 1 into battle rage.. what should they be ideally @ lvl 20
For both, 1 pt is pretty much all you will need. The main bonus that Battle Rage gives you is the +50% OA, which spikes your crits into the ludicrous range. Crushing Blow, and Counterattack are a YMMV, my friend hates Counterattack, but loves Crushing Blow and has it max'd out along with all of his Dual-wields max'd. His GDD's he can pull off do make me envious.

Warwind, the only thing additional points do is increase damage by 5 per, and increase the energy cost. Lacerate (the upgrade to Warwind), is either 1 pt base, 5 pts (with any +skill mods), or 9 pts ( with +skill mods). The 1st pt gives you 1 additional target, 5th is 2nd target and 9th should be 3rd target. Again though, some players play differently and seem to hate getting energy gear with their Warriors, or like to ignore the instant refresh of Energy Potions. I don't ignore either of those myself.

EDIT: Just checked energy costs. Warwind is 75 energy at 1pt, and +4 pts per pt spent on Warwind (which gives you a +5 Damage per pt). Lacerate, whether is 1 pt or 8 pts, does a +20 energy to Warwind. So, I definitely recommend maxing out Lacerate, extra damage and targets without increasing cost past the 1st pt.

tweaker
07-06-2006, 11:34 AM
For both, 1 pt is pretty much all you will need. The main bonus that Battle Rage gives you is the +50% OA, which spikes your crits into the ludicrous range. Crushing Blow, and Counterattack are a YMMV, my friend hates Counterattack, but loves Crushing Blow and has it max'd out along with all of his Dual-wields max'd. His GDD's he can pull off do make me envious.

Warwind, the only thing additional points do is increase damage by 5 per, and increase the energy cost. Lacerate (the upgrade to Warwind), is either 1 pt base, 5 pts (with any +skill mods), or 9 pts ( with +skill mods). The 1st pt gives you 1 additional target, 5th is 2nd target and 9th should be 3rd target. Again though, some players play differently and seem to hate getting energy gear with their Warriors, or like to ignore the instant refresh of Energy Potions. I don't ignore either of those myself.

thanks :clap:

Dulak
07-06-2006, 11:34 AM
I took a couple pure warfare guys up ... last guy made it almost through orient in epic ...

IMO best way to build the guy is ...
First off you are not going to be doing alot of dual wield damage until you have alot of points invested in the dual wield skills and having 2 weapons with similar strengths <<< most important ...

So ... for the first 15 or so levels dont even bother to dual wield ... just use the weapon/shield

Max out onslaught first going to provide the best damage boost right off the bat. Then go for weapons training.

Then I would probably climb up the tree and get str/dex and health while going for a point in battle standard and warhorn ...

Definately get 1 in warwind*** Probably my favorite skill in the tree.
ie if you got life or energy leech or slow on your weapons and hit warwind you do its effect to the 4 or 5 mobs around you.

I like to go for ardor also ... ie nothing like faster movement and weapon speed ...

Then I would dump points into the dual wield skills ...

I mean you could go for dual wield early but again you damage is going to be off if you are using 2 unequal weapons (and you will usually have one weapon thats stronger); and until you can get you skills up to a respectable level.

So for summary:

1. 1 point in battle rage, onslaught, weapons training
2. Get onslaught maxed, then get weapons training maxed
3. Work your way up the tree and get 1 point in some filler skills such as warhorn, battle standard, hamstring, triumph, crushing blow, doom horn, ancestrial horn (nice even with just one point). And any other skills youd like 1 point in ...
4. Then go max ardor
Then ...
5. Go get your dual wield skills ... by this time you will be heading into your 20's and hopefully be able to have access to 2 decent weapons and then you can start increasing your damage.

But remember as you drop the shield you will start to take more damage ... so I always increase my health too when I can.

man this is making me want to make another warfare guy

Xaece
07-06-2006, 11:37 AM
Definately get 1 in warwind*** Probably my favorite skill in the tree.
ie if you got life or energy leech or slow on your weapons and hit warwind you do its effect to the 4 or 5 mobs around you.

Definitely my fav in the Warfare tree as well. I could never go without Warwind on a Warfare, just like I can't go without Shield Batter on Defense. Again though, I build my characters to be able to handle energy costs, sometimes thats via energy pots, other times its using a combo of skills to spike EPS as needed.

Daktor
07-06-2006, 12:17 PM
One tree that doesn't need alot of investment is the warhorn. I've found only the low level warhorn is useful. The elysian fighters are situational at best and have a huge cooldown.

yoman
07-06-2006, 02:08 PM
(EDIT: damn did i really type such a crap in the sub-topic? wtf ... oh well, i blame some random caster for it :P

currently mid lvl35 on epic running around in "Lower War Camp" between Parnassos and Athens ... every mob so far for melee category goes down pretty fast, but my resistances...my resistances.... (btw a big F... U to cast mobs :P)

well i skilled:

the complete weapon training tree - MAX
in the Battle Rage tree - NOTHING so far (seems like i missed sth , atleast im feeling like that while reading this thread here)

Dodge Attack - Max

Battle Standard Tree - well Battle Standard maxed, but nothing in its modifier ...

Onslaught Tree maxed with the exception of "Harnstring" where i put nothing so far..

War Wind Tree - nothing so far (see Battle Rage^^)

War Horn Tree - nothing

Ancestral Horn - im planning on max'ing it out but currently im just at 8/15

oh yeah 2nd Mastery is Earth but i havent done shit so far with it, just "wasted" the whole lot of 4(yes, FOUR^^) Mastery points on it ...

Weapons:
DW with Sabertooth and Deathweavers Legtip, first one with Essence of Yen Lo-Wang's Bloodletting ... 2nd was found just about an hour ago and does A LOT of Poison Dmg so i was planning on maybe improving that even more with a Epic Venom Sac, once i got it completed (3/5 atm).

Helmet: Mantis Helmet from Safeguard of the Mantis Set
Bracers/Gloves/whatever: Bracers of the Firewalker , setitem ..
Greaves: some green +25% pierce dmg +15% movement ones with Essence of Sets betrayal ... (more pierce dmg)

Body Armor: see for yourself pls
http://tinyurl.com/kz4bk
(crappy as of my current lvl of 35 but ive found nothing better so far ... got the Obsidian Breastplate in my invent but w/o the rest of the set this one seems still better , though i maybe wrong)

Rings/Amulets currently:
green "robust Talisman" +18% Strength +8% Health with "Essence of the Ankh of Isis" relic which bonus was like +105% Health regen and +60 Health ..

a green +16% Strength +8% Health ring with "Vile Ichor" relic ..
another green ring +8% Strenght +5% Health with "Essence of Hecates Crescent"

Health/Energy/STR/INT/DEX: 2112/487/383/125/195

resistances: NONE in +% area atm except somewhat +53% stun resis on epic ... so , melee mobs are meat, but i'm becoming bows/casters meat more and more ... :/

so ... pls help me pimp my char...

oh and sry for kinda hijacking the topic but i found no other suitable thread ;)

thx in advance..