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View Full Version : Some issues with TQ gameplay



Dreez
08-27-2008, 03:55 AM
Currently lvl 45 and just reached the yetiboss which pwned me with
his icebreath in 1 shot. I've played TQ since the release and i have to say
i am kinda disapointed in the way the game is balanced towards melee.

My character is mainly build around utilizing her shield while having a huge
healthpool and decent resistances across the board.

First:
Why did the programers feel that it would be fun to give no/crap rewards for
killing a boss/beast that can 1shot you without problem?.
I've killed all superbosses 1time except the hydra, and none of those dropped
anything from their chests worth having. Imo if you spend 4-5 tries killing
a superNPC, then you should be rewarded for it.

Today for example, i killed the chimera and the 'neanderthal boss' and looted
only yellow items from the chests, that stinks imo for both are hard bosses
which has no problems with 1shotting you even if you're skilled.

Second:
I have read all the patchnotes and i can't see anything pointing towards
meleechars being boosted or the game itself getting an 'overhaul' towards
meleechars when it comes to difficultybalance.

Just look at the way up to Typhoon. Casters has a walk in the park
doing these runs, while a melee can get 1shotted by the cyclops special attack.


Maybe it's just me, but im really tired of insanely hard bossfights, and
99/100times ending up with nothing but vendorcrap :mad:.

yerkyerk
08-27-2008, 04:44 AM
I think it's you, hehe :) I find myself that the game is way too easy and could probably do with some major difficulty increase (4x as difficult...). In all categories, melee as well as caster, petmancer, or any ranged toon.

Anyway, you could post your build (www.titancalc.com) and your equipment here, I'm sure people are willing to help you nail down the heavy bosses.

Btw, if you have the IT expansion, I suggest using the fanpatch. It has a randomization fix which should give less fixed drops. It also fixes a bunch of other stuff.

Dreez
08-27-2008, 05:02 AM
http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Juggernaut&master1=1&master2=5&sa=0&m1=32-6-0-4-0-4-0-0-0-0-4-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-8-0-0&m2=32-8-1-1-3-1-0-0-0-4-3-0-0-0-6-8-6-0-0-0-6-0

Build.

Steerpike
08-27-2008, 05:05 AM
I've always found it easier to play melee than casters, but that's just my style of play. I've never understood the problem with Barmanu - as long as you keep moving and have some form of stun resistance, then he's easy (I think he killed my first toon once, but that was it). I sort of agree with the comment on it being annoying when you kill some big baddie and end up with rubbish from the majestics, but then that partly makes the items all the more valuable when they do drop (especially when some crappy zombie or something drops a legendary...)

Having looked at your build, and having just got Simone the Juggernaut to legendary myself, I'd do the following: Remove the points in stoneskin and defensive reaction, as they aren't necessary. In Earth, take Ring of Flame down to 1 point (that's all you need) max Earth Enchantment to boost fire damage (really worth doing). In Defense, max Quick Recovery and Shield Smash, both of which should help.

Dreez
08-27-2008, 05:28 AM
I find Defensive reaction awesome since it increases my damage by more
then 50% for 8 seconds. But maybe if i draw points from that skill and invest
them into skills in the earthtree, i get 50% more dmg constantly instead...

ill try.

/Edit: Why remove stoneskin?. It gives valuable fire-res, eventhou the armorbonus is a joke.

Steerpike
08-27-2008, 05:35 AM
It does have okay fire-res, true, but I've never needed it. With a juggernaut, I used items that boost fire damage, most of which boost fire-res as well - at the start of legendary, my fire-res was at 80% due to items. (I have to confess that I had twinked some of the items, however...)

Irma2
08-27-2008, 05:43 AM
What sort of fire damage are you doing to justify such heavy investment in Earth Enchantment and Volativity? Ring of Flame doesn't merit it, and you don't have either VO or Eruption. Do you have a big fire damage weapon?

Concussive Blow also isn't worth 8 points imo, unless it's a specialised stun build like a Paladin.

I'd rather put those points into Shield Charge & Disruption, Quick Recovery, as well as the one point wonders Colossus Form, Heat Shield, Stone Form & Molten Rock.

Regarding play balancing, I think casters (and archers especially) have an easier time in Acts I-III (I take it that you're not playing Immortal Throne). However, the expansion swings the balance the other way. Casters have a terrible time in Act IV.

Regarding drops, I think TQ is fine. I've played the game for a shorter time than I played D2, yet have come a lot closer to completing the unique item database than I ever did in D2.

Sure, you get a lot of yellow junk. But you got a lot of yellow junk in D2 too. It goes with the territory in an action RPG. If you want a hard boss fight with little reward, try killing Duriel on Hell difficulty and getting two Full Rejuvenation potions as the drop...

Dreez
08-27-2008, 05:58 AM
Well, the thing is that my char is mainly build around alot of points into
stamina and strength (mostly stamina) so she can't use swords, besides,
there arent too many good swords.

So putting 8 points into being able to stun for 5 seconds have payed back
quiet well on more then a few occasions. My problems atm is all the damage
i am taking. I end up spamming the healthpots in larger fights and my
resists aren't topnotch tbh.

I did however spank Talos without any problems with my juggernaut,
compared to my Thane that had to run from him.

If i find someway to show my gear, i will.

Irma2
08-27-2008, 06:19 AM
Stamina = life? No wonder you're struggling. The general rule, especially for melee toons, is to focus on Str and Dex rather than life.

If you have low Dex (which sounds like the case if you can't equip swords), that will make your job especially hard. Dex = higher DA and OA. Without reasonable DA, you will take a lot of critical hits from monsters. And without reasonable OA, you will miss a lot of hits.

What are your OA and DA levels currently?

TimelordDC
08-27-2008, 04:55 PM
You also have to remember that each boss targets specific resistances with their attack. The Yet is all cold (and freeze) and physical melee damage. Chimera is primarily fire. Talos is fire and stun.
So, having different resistances maxed when fighting specific bosses help. Having decent resistances across the board is a good thing - for the mobs.

Your armor rating and DA determine how much damage you take. With a very low Dex and hence, DA, you'll be critted a lot more and die easily.

Health is good but without survivability (taking care of resistances and OA/DA), any amount of health is a total waste.

Colossus Form is a boss killer skill and even 1 point works wonders. You should definitely invest in that!

Take a screenshot of your char (both primary and secondary tabs) and post it here and you'll get more help.

Teudon
08-27-2008, 05:14 PM
Why you guys insist on quick recovery...since it last a few secs( so its ucefull for boss killing) I find it totaly uslace since I use Colosus form.
My oppinnion is that you should max the battle awarness skill tree,Armor Handling,shield shamsh,batter skill tree and ofc remove any points form the earth mastery that doesnt encreece resistance or dps and use them to max colosus form.
BTW for a defender I find rally to be a life saveing skill you should max that too.

Dreez
08-27-2008, 09:22 PM
Why would stamina be less important to a melee then dexterity!?

If this is true, then my lvl46Juggernaut is completely screwed thanks
to these crazy rule. Dexterity is an attribute for ranged chars in all
game i've played sofar.

I was going to buy Ironthrone to see how my juggernaut did against
the new worlds, but i guess this removed my 'play TQ again' period.

Imo, a meleechar that goes for armor+health should take less dmg
then a char going for dex+str.

Screwed up game :evil:

Teudon
08-27-2008, 09:54 PM
In the RPG's I played DEX gives crittical,defence, evasion,chance to hit...don't try to compare TQ with other RPG's...just go by its rules and you will see its a bit origianl and fun.So for melee you need to have twice as much str then dex and forget about adding points to stamina you get enough health from points added to your mastery and from items.
There is no such thing as a melee with 0 DEX.

Dreez
08-27-2008, 10:08 PM
So if i want to keep playing my char, is it too late if i start spending all
points into dex :( ?. Ohhwell. TQ is such a wellmade game i guess i'll
buy IT anyway and just move my items.

Unless there's some kind of 'retrainer' program.

/Edit:
Just to clarify some stuff. I don't have problems killing mobs, they are mostly 2shotted
when im under adrenalinboost. And i can take out large groups of enemies using 1-2 pots.
But since im a perfectionist when it comes to chars, i want my Juggernaut to be as good
as it can possibly be.

So should i remake her, or keep going and put all points into dex from now on?

Creslyn
08-28-2008, 02:42 AM
If you've put a lot of points into health, a remake is probably the best option. Or if you don't mind screwing around with your toon a bit to save the progress you've already made, grab Soulsekkor's Defiler and you can edit stats with that.

Steerpike
08-28-2008, 07:59 AM
Why you guys insist on quick recovery...since it last a few secs( so its ucefull for boss killing) I find it totaly uslace since I use Colosus form.
My oppinnion is that you should max the battle awarness skill tree,Armor Handling,shield shamsh,batter skill tree and ofc remove any points form the earth mastery that doesnt encreece resistance or dps and use them to max colosus form.
BTW for a defender I find rally to be a life saveing skill you should max that too.

I haven't used Colossus Form since my first successful defender, who uses a mace (now Sapros), and needed that to get by the bosses. With a reasonable DPS, it isn't necessary. Still, it's kind of funny to watch.

IMHO it should be 1 pt in Battle Awareness (the flat rates it gives aren't worth more), but max Focus and Iron Will (the latter first, the stun resist is good). I agree with Armour Handling (defence's biggest bonus - wear armour beyond your abilities), shield smash and putting points into batter, but I'm not sure I maxed it - rend armour, however, I certainly did. I always max quick recovery as it affects your other shield procs (I think). Under Earth, it's best to max those skills that give you a bonus to fire damage, and then make sure you use a weapon that does fire damage...

yerkyerk
08-28-2008, 08:26 AM
I think nothing is lost yet - it can still be a very able toon.

My first toons usually get messed up - they often work well enough to complete the game, but they aren't perfect because of some weird mistakes.

Currently, I have a Diviner and I divide my points between health, dexterity and strength. Giving up health for strength and dexterity isn't a good idea for a hardcore toon, imo.

omgarm
08-29-2008, 01:39 PM
Why would stamina be less important to a melee then dexterity!?

If this is true, then my lvl46Juggernaut is completely screwed thanks
to these crazy rule. Dexterity is an attribute for ranged chars in all
game i've played sofar.

I was going to buy Ironthrone to see how my juggernaut did against
the new worlds, but i guess this removed my 'play TQ again' period.

Imo, a meleechar that goes for armor+health should take less dmg
then a char going for dex+str.

Screwed up game :evil:

You clearly haven't played a lot of different RPGs. Don't say the game is screwed up because you don't read the manual/in game description.