Defense/Earth

[Tech]

First, what is the class called? I'm waiting for my game to ship from play.com and I'm planning the character already. Tried playing with http://tq.gamona.de/index.php?type=special&area=1&p=articles&id=154 and http://www.gamebanshee.com/titanquest/skillmasteries.php and I came up with a Defense/Earth build. I personally hate active skills, and want as many passives as possible. The build would have

Defense
- Full Mastery
- Adrenaline tree
- Battle Awareness tree
- Colossus Form
- All the other passives (not the stun one)

Earth
- Earth Enchantment tree
- Ring of Flame tree
- All remaining points to the Mastery

Opinions, criticism, anything? I aim for being a very good meat shield. The other choices? - Nature has only one aura (I don't want summons, those need.. well, to be summoned, I only want to left-click), Rogue/Hunting are boring (or just don't suit my taste as Earth does), Storm/Spirit have too many actives (those just don't interest me that much) and Warfare soaks too much damage (okay, it has its good points, but too many actives on the other hand).

Earth was nice in the demo and it too offers some defense with upping my damage at the same time. Fine, Ring of Flame needs to be activated, but 45 seconds is ok for an aura-like effect. Colossus Form is for the hard places and bosses. The killing speed isn't a problem, survivability is.

What would you have done better? What would you have chosen? Just comment. :errf:

Edit: Ah, the class is Juggernaut. Awesome, now I can run around shouting "I'm the Juggernaut, b*tch!".. Search for Juggernaut on www.youtube.com if you want to know more.

[Damballah]

Volatility ... will it trigger of fire damage from melee attacks as well?

If so I would consider that. Unless you meant to take that as part of the earth enchantment tree which it sits over but isn't directly tied to (from a prereq sense.)

[Jack McCandless]

I was tempted to go Earth / Defense just for the cool class name. Volatility should be a good boost offensively, and Heat Shield is a definitely possibility for this type of character.

You could also consider stone form - six seconds of invulnerability and recovery without losing aggro, it's certainly not a bad trick. I haven't looked much at the upgrade but it adds fire retaliation...so you can stand there completely invulnerable, recovering your health, while your attackers beat themselves to death on your impervious shell.

[Tech]

Volatility ... will it trigger of fire damage from melee attacks as well?

If so I would consider that. Unless you meant to take that as part of the earth enchantment tree which it sits over but isn't directly tied to (from a prereq sense.)

I don't have enough points to get it with the current setup. :(


I was tempted to go Earth / Defense just for the cool class name. Volatility should be a good boost offensively, and Heat Shield is a definitely possibility for this type of character.

You could also consider stone form - six seconds of invulnerability and recovery without losing aggro, it's certainly not a bad trick. I haven't looked much at the upgrade but it adds fire retaliation...so you can stand there completely invulnerable, recovering your health, while your attackers beat themselves to death on your impervious shell.

I've considered the Stone Form, but it's just six seconds.. Six seconds is quite much nothing. Maybe I'll throw at least one point in, as I would have otherwise dumped all the remaining ones to the mastery. But well yeah, it's a heal at the same time. I'd have ten points to spend, but I wonder if Stone Form is worth more than one.. :errf:

Edit: And the Heat Shield, err, I will have quite big resists anyway with Defense, I doubt I'd need it. And the energy cost - I'll need all the remaining energy for casting Ring of Flame.

[Jack McCandless]

I've considered the Stone Form, but it's just six seconds.. Six seconds is quite much nothing.

That definitely hasn't been my experience - six seconds is a pretty good period of time in which to recover because potions, etc. can still help you.

I also wonder if there might be synergy with adrenaline - I wonder if getting attacked while invulnerable can still trigger a rush?

[Tech]

That definitely hasn't been my experience - six seconds is a pretty good period of time in which to recover because potions, etc. can still help you.

I also wonder if there might be synergy with adrenaline - I wonder if getting attacked while invulnerable can still trigger a rush?

Mm, possibly (hopefully). I'll place a point in it. :happy:

[Jack McCandless]

Mm, possibly (hopefully). I'll place a point in it.

That's what I use on my Earth / Nature guy. It doesn't come up constantly, but it's great for what it does when I do need it.

One thing I've found it can be useful for is safely biding time until another skill has finished recharging - usually my Core Dweller. You might not have that issue being a more martial character, I dunno.


I will have quite big resists anyway with Defense

What's the skill in defense that gives you resists? I couldn't see one when I looked but I might of missed it - unless you mean that armour handling will help you equip lots of resistance gear, but all the stuff I've seen with resistances so far as been jewellery.

[Tech]

What's the skill in defense that gives you resists? I couldn't see one when I looked but I might of missed it - unless you mean that armour handling will help you equip lots of resistance gear, but all the stuff I've seen with resistances so far as been jewellery.

Ah right, it was in the Rally tree (temporary cr*p). At least I'll have Iron Will which gives Stun resistance and such. I'll just have to get resist stuff then. :confused:

[Darmane]

I can't help you much with the earth tree but I'm a big fan of the defender (i have a level 12 one, would be higher but I decided to reroll afew days ago).

I havent gotten to this skill yet but I think Pulverize would be a huge help. It's passive and effects up to 3 targets. You're going to want some extra AoE damage and stuns are damn nice in the first place.

Also, Shield charge is a great skill. You can use it to rush in and take out the archers/casters first or if not used as a battle opener, it is great way to keep yourself mobile and therefore alive.

I'm also a fan of the active skill Batter (with Rend Armor). With Rend Armor, it effects 3 targets and reduces their armor making them much easier to take out.

If I were you I'd re-think not including some of these actives. I'm a passive fan also, but some of the actives in the defense tree have been very useful, not to mention fun.

[phaet2112]

I dont like much in the adrenaline tree. It doesn't proc often enough for such a point investment. Maybe 1 in each, maybe a few more at the top level for enhanced speed boost during the proc.

[Tech]

I havent gotten to this skill yet but I think Pulverize would be a huge help. It's passive and effects up to 3 targets. You're going to want some extra AoE damage and stuns are damn nice in the first place.

It's included already. :happy:


Also, Shield charge is a great skill. You can use it to rush in and take out the archers/casters first or if not used as a battle opener, it is great way to keep yourself mobile and therefore alive.

I'm also a fan of the active skill Batter (with Rend Armor). With Rend Armor, it effects 3 targets and reduces their armor making them much easier to take out.

I rather use more potions than take more active skills. And have you looked at Ring of Flame with its upgrade? It, too, decreases enemies' armor. :happy:


I dont like much in the adrenaline tree. It doesn't proc often enough for such a point investment. Maybe 1 in each, maybe a few more at the top level for enhanced speed boost during the proc.

Maybe you're right, 5% is quite a small percentage. Without it, I could get Volativity from Earth to boost my fire damage. I'll keep 1/1/2 points in that tree, just for randomness. :happy:


Thank you all for the comments, keep them coming if you have something to add. :)

[Tech]

So far, the build looks like this:


Defense [90 points]
- Full Mastery (32 points)
- Adrenaline (1 point), Resilience (1 point), Defensive Reaction (2 points)
- Battle Awareness (10 points), Focus (6 points), Iron Will (6 points)
- Armor Handling (6 points)
- Shield Smash (6 points)
- Disable (6 points)
- Pulverize (6 points)
- Colossus Form (8 points)

Earth [102 points]
- Full Mastery (32 points)
- Earth Enchantment (15 points), Brimstone (12 points), Stone Skin (6 points)
- Volativity (12 points)
- Stone Form (1 point), Molten Rock (1 point)
- Ring of Flame (15 points), Soften Metal (8 points)


Where to add the extra points from quests? Defensive Reaction or Stone Form?

[BXP]

To those two say 6 seconds is nothing...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7679494008529949324&q=titan+quest

[Tech]

To those two say 6 seconds is nothing...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7679494008529949324&q=titan+quest

But it still isn't worth more than one point for this build. :confused:

[Xaece]

I dont like much in the adrenaline tree. It doesn't proc often enough for such a point investment. Maybe 1 in each, maybe a few more at the top level for enhanced speed boost during the proc.
Phaet, did you have Resilience max'd when you used Adrenaline? A little known fact of Adrenaline is that it has a 30 sec cooldown with its 12 sec duration. It actually -does- proc VERY often, its just few people realize the cooldown is greater than the duration. With Resilience at lv 6, the cooldown becomes 10.4, and you're able to maintain Adrenaline PERMANENTLY. It is seriously nothing to sneeze at.

Volativity, will proc on -any- fire damage dealt. That would be any of the "fire" spells, that would include the fire melee damage bonus from Earth Enchant, it will effect a Swords of Combustions flame damage, and it will even effect an armors %Chance to deal Fire Retaliation Damage (and the more rare, 100% chance of Fire Retaliation Damage).

[Xaece]

Ah right, it was in the Rally tree (temporary cr*p). At least I'll have Iron Will which gives Stun resistance and such. I'll just have to get resist stuff then. :confused:
You should really re-think Rally though..

With Adrenaline on, Rally, and the modifier to Inspiration, I have been known to push 20 Energy Per Second, and 35 Health per Second. And this is with lv 1 Adrenaline mind you. I definitely plan to max out Adrenaline, which gives 25 HPS base, with Rally is 62.5 HPS (before considering Item bonuses!).

[Tech]

You should really re-think Rally though..

With Adrenaline on, Rally, and the modifier to Inspiration, I have been known to push 20 Energy Per Second, and 35 Health per Second. And this is with lv 1 Adrenaline mind you. I definitely plan to max out Adrenaline, which gives 25 HPS base, with Rally is 62.5 HPS (before considering Item bonuses!).

I was going to find a passive build and I'm going to stick to the plan, thanks for the advice anyway. I understand the advantages of HP/s, but I'd lose either good passive skills or stuff from Earth.

[phaet2112]

Phaet, did you have Resilience max'd when you used Adrenaline? A little known fact of Adrenaline is that it has a 30 sec cooldown with its 12 sec duration. It actually -does- proc VERY often, its just few people realize the cooldown is greater than the duration. With Resilience at lv 6, the cooldown becomes 10.4, and you're able to maintain Adrenaline PERMANENTLY. It is seriously nothing to sneeze at.

Volativity, will proc on -any- fire damage dealt. That would be any of the "fire" spells, that would include the fire melee damage bonus from Earth Enchant, it will effect a Swords of Combustions flame damage, and it will even effect an armors %Chance to deal Fire Retaliation Damage (and the more rare, 100% chance of Fire Retaliation Damage).

Ah well I was mistaken in that I thought it was 5% of your swings, not 5% of the hits against you. In any event, points in adrenaline itself aren't as useful as the next two improvement skills to reduce the timer and increase attack speed. I have adrenaline, and for a passive build its great, but Im puzzled when I see people dumping so many points into the base skill. I probably wont go past 4 points in Defensive Reaction (top A3 skill of the tree), maybe full 6 points in Resiliance, maybe just 1 in Adrenaline itself.

[Tech]

At last! Got my copy now. Time to test the build. :happy:

[Tech]

Working fine, no need to activate anything, just occasionally right-click for a potion.

First crash at level 21 in Memphis. :errf:

[Sapphidia]

One thing to note - with a build like that you really need some kind of self healing skill so that you're not having to chug potions regularly. You wont notice it until you get halfway through the Orient, but a melee character who doesnt have the insane dps skills will be tanking mobs longer, and you will seriously need some way of keeping your health up. In the early game, you can rely purely on stats pretty much and just melee things to death without using -any- skills, but as you start meeting the tigermen and draconians you'll be finishing fights with a lot of health missing.

I'd honestly push you to get either maxed Rally tree (the self heal and HP regen is awesome) or max Stone Form. I had a Storm/Earth meleer and used a max stone form as my healing - the amount you regen when in the rock is certainly noticeable anyway. I myself also favor passive builds - any more than one skill that is activateable is too much for me, often ^.^ But with melee tanking passive builds, you really need some kind of heal to be that skill. Good as the defender tree is, it doesnt make you invulnerable, especially to elemental damage.

The passive idea is good, I did that with storm/earth, but imo you should stick Stone Form on your right click and use it more as a heal.

[Raefar]

So far, the build looks like this:


Defense [90 points]
- Full Mastery (32 points)
- Adrenaline (1 point), Resilience (1 point), Defensive Reaction (2 points)
- Battle Awareness (10 points), Focus (6 points), Iron Will (6 points)
- Armor Handling (6 points)
- Shield Smash (6 points)
- Disable (6 points)
- Pulverize (6 points)
- Colossus Form (8 points)

Earth [102 points]
- Full Mastery (32 points)
- Earth Enchantment (15 points), Brimstone (12 points), Stone Skin (6 points)
- Volativity (12 points)
- Stone Form (1 point), Molten Rock (1 point)
- Ring of Flame (15 points), Soften Metal (8 points)


Where to add the extra points from quests? Defensive Reaction or Stone Form?

Just letting you know your build is off just a little bit. The information on gamebanshee is off a little bit on how high things go and what they do.

[Tech]

Just letting you know your build is off just a little bit. The information on gamebanshee is off a little bit on how high things go and what they do.

I've noticed it, I'll post the final build at 65. ;)

[Tech]

Level 33, normal difficulty completed - and still no actives. The only "active" is the right click spam - potions, potions and more potions. :clap:

[Darmane]

Level 33, normal difficulty completed - and still no actives. The only "active" is the right click spam - potions, potions and more potions. :clap:

holy boring :knockout:

[Icehawk]

Not even Batter or Shield Charge on the right click? Honestly I think you are missing out. IMO the points into BA are a waste, the top tier for sure I'd max out though for the resists.

We're about the same lvl/place, I've got a Conquerer (Warf/Def). I use one potion per map maybe...

My guy is kinda complicated to play right though, I can't just go clickity-click. If I mess up my string of combos on one of the nastiers mobs (like big Tiger mobs) I'd better be running and pounding the pot button! When you get the string of events right though... not much can touch me.

Yum, Battle Standard->War Cry->Colussus->Shield Charge->Batter->War Wind. Is anything still standing? Where did my mana go?!

I've got a low lvl Oracle... I either left click and wait for mana to come up or right click and Ternion until nothing is moving. Bit of a snoozefest for me.

[Dreamer]

Rally is the only activate skill I have for defence, but it's a must. I have it to level 7 + all the skills up the tree at least 1 point. Defiance can be useful when stacked with storm form + molten rock, which I just now figured out. Damage reflection + retaliation = win. Early on in normal molten rock was actually useful even at lvl 1, must be all my % increases to fire damage.

Volcanic orb + fragmentation was absolutely awesome until epic. What's not to like about an AoE attack that stuns? Heck, it even killed stuff pretty good. Until epic of course. Having to always carry energy potions and spreading stats out kind of makes it very difficult to play though, so I'm thinking of taking those points and putting them in something more beneficial. At first I used earth enchantment but decided the bonuses weren't worth it, but now thinking they might be with all my % increase in damage. After reading the Knowledge thread I'm thinking it might be perfect for the Juggernaut.

I really need help on doing more damage though. I have a DPS of like 240 right now, it's pathetic. My friend is warfare/rogue and he does twice my damage. Of course I can rock Typhon like nobody else period.

[Icehawk]

You should be able to find a better weapon in Epic, I'm barely into it (Sparta) and I already increased my damage by 50% with just a yellow weapon! Up to 350ish DPS from ~285 or so. I'm not a farmer so I'm sure I could be doing better.

It's looking like weapons with the "slow" effect are the best even if DPS is lower... much easier to survive melee when they are hitting half as often.

[Ardens]

Consider also that putting points into Disable right now is a total waste as it is utterly and completely borked until the next patch.

-Ardens

[Dreamer]

Well I have a much better weapon now, dps over 300 finally. In fact my juggernaut just tears through epic now. Got new armor too on a Typhon run. I'm looking to hopefully pick up a new weapon in Epic soon because I have an achilles relic that has the bonus of 66% slower attack, which makes it the BOMB relic for typhon runs. Maybe I should hold onto it for a little while...

[Tech]

Got an update, check the link for primary/secondary character info at level 36 and my mastery trees if interested about current points. :happy:

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshots/orangequake/

[Dreamer]

What kind of weapons do you guys use? I know defense has a proc for maces, but I always stick to the fast swords because of shield procs(shield does more damage than my sword and can hit 3 at once!). I'm actually using a small sword that has base speed of very fast +30% IAS, so it swings pretty fast.

[Raefar]

Here my build for my lvl 39 Earth/Def

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/raefar823/earth.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m310/raefar823/defences.jpg

Oh and for a weapon I try to uses faster ones atm im using Axes of Ages

[Dreamer]

You seriously need to put a point or 2 in armor handling. Increased armor absorption is very important. Base armor absorption is 66%, so no matter how much armor you have you can only reduce the damage by 66% unless you get increased armor absorption. At level 2 you get 10% increased AA with armor handling. Plus you never have to worry about strength requirements on armor.

[Pheonix]

Thanks guys that helps alot i may keep 1 point on pet just to have an arrow absorber.

[Eric6402]

Stone Form
Core Dweller

Both will add a lot to this.

[Tech]

Stone Form
Core Dweller

Both will add a lot to this.

I've noticed that I don't need Stone Form. I'm fine without, dealing with bosses quite easily (I need resistances way more and that way I'm doing good already).

Core Dweller takes a huge load of points and what's the use of it considering I took Defense as the second mastery? That'd be ok if I was a caster.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. :cool:

[Tech]

I'm level 41, just finished killing Epic Typhon. Got also a legendary spear earlier. On Epic I basically ran past every normal monster. I did all the side quests though and killed bosses myself - I was bored to do it all again after nearly turning every stone on Normal and clearing the map as much as I could.

While Defense is very good with its passives and Colossus Form (yes, believe it or not, I have an active skill now), I'm afraid Earth doesn't do good on Legendary. Why so?

Well, Earth Enchantment is quite outdated as it is. It needs a buff. If it is the only source of fire damage, it's useless to get Volativity to buff it - minimal gains. Ring of Flame has the armor reduction effect, but it too is useless as it soaks quite many points and I've got a relic already to take care of armor reduction if I want some. Plus the damage it does is too weak.

Sure, Earth Enchantment is great because of the 100% fire damage buff for casters, so is Volativity, but I don't gain much from it. Fire resistance and armor both are good, but those numbers are small too for all the invested points. I'd need other sources of fire damage and that would seriously affect my resistances, armor and other stats.

I see Earth more as a mastery with wasted points for a melee character. Not on Normal, and maybe not on Epic either, but surely on Legendary. It just doesn't offer enough damage or survivability. It has handy spells, a great pet, but seems to lack on the melee side.

Comments, suggestions, solutions, advice, anything? :errf:

I'm thinking of making a Brigand now, at least it has potential percentage based damage through pierce and bleeding. :whistle:

[Raefar]

LvL 58 now, and yes earth is not that great for melee. The fire damage isnt that great only adds 500 damge to my attacks and thats only because I have this stuff (I have the mace and the ring) (http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/search/banshee_search.pl?TitanQuest_Items.itemdivision=&TitanQuest_Items.category=&TitanQuest_Items.type=&TitanQuest_Items.slot=&_orderby=&TitanQuest_Items.armor=&TitanQuest_Items.blockchance=&TitanQuest_Items.piercing=&TitanQuest_Items.speed=&TitanQuest_Items.reqlevel=&TitanQuest_Items.reqdex=&TitanQuest_Items.reqint=&TitanQuest_Items.reqstr=&noSearch=to+Accelerated+Growth&TitanQuest_Items.itemname=Hephaestus&_layout=TitanQuest_Items&_cgifunction=search)

Atm my dps is only 3700 and thats mostly because I got som,e really really nice items.

The juggernuat was nice in the begining but lossed power later on.

[Dreamer]

So does ring of fire just pulse from you as you move, like an aura? Or is it an activate skill that pulses once? I see you guys using it but I've never tried it.

Also I was thinking of focusing my gear around doing more fire damage so as to keep earth enchantment useful. I've been focusing on defense mostly for now, still only lvl 36. I haven't maxed out earth mastery and probably won't, not worth it. My next character is an elementalist, heavy on the earth. Going to do the caster thing and try that out.

[Raefar]

There no need to max out earth, it was a waste of a lot of points fo me. Only got power and intel out of it which kinda help with power problems and a little damage too but thats about it.