Defender sucks bigtime

[revengemadmax]

i got to lv 20 and im in egypt.. now every small group of 4-6 monsters i have to use 1-2 potions to just stay alive... is that normal.. or do i realy realy suck?

most of my gear is ok..

my DPS is 79

my offence abillity is 178
deffence is 198

is this ok? or realy realy sucky.. cuz im thinking of restarting cuz im sick of spaming health poitions.

[siege]

My Assassin has around the same DPS at level 12. I, too, have to chug a lot of potions during fights but I defintely dish out a lot of damage.

I don't think all the classes are very well balanced right now. The Defender, despite the name and class description, doesn't seem to fare much better than any other class. Melee characters have to resort to potion spamming to survive while ranged/casters really have no problems.

I played an Elementalist and noticed I had 40 potions in my inventory by level 10 because I rarely ever used them.

[j1mm]

i got to lv 20 and im in egypt.. now every small group of 4-6 monsters i have to use 1-2 potions to just stay alive... is that normal.. or do i realy realy suck?

most of my gear is ok..

my DPS is 79

my offence abillity is 178
deffence is 198

is this ok? or realy realy sucky.. cuz im thinking of restarting cuz im sick of spaming health poitions.

Have you tried picking out a more offensive secondary?

[JayPie]

Im still in Greece and lvl 17, but my DPS is 99 + 60 Poisin Dmg over 3sec.
Thus I'd guess you need a better weapon.
And whats you second mastery?
Mine is Warfare and the Onslaught abillity really helps...

[revengemadmax]

warfare is my second mastery and ive maxed out onslaught...

[j1mm]

What skills have you gone for in defense???

[Gorkk]

Defender can do really great in normal with no other mastery ;) Just think about using:
- your shield skills, they do wonders (passive and active)
- shield charge is really useful
- go for the ranged mobs (archers and casters) first
- Rally and Inspiration help a lot (rally for healing yourself, inspiration to get more energy back than what you used for casting rally).

My conqueror stayed Defender 'till he complete Normal, and did very well (although since then he scored lots of death in Epic ;)).

[revengemadmax]

warfare
weapon training lv6
onslaught lv 8

defence
armour handling lv 6
shield smash lv 6
batter lv7 out of 12
battle awareness lv8 out of 10
quick recovery lv2 out of 8
rally lv5 out of 12
adrenaline lv5 out of 10

[Darmane]

I'm a level 11 defender and I have around the same DPS as you. Granted it is from a 60 and a 24 damage poison from my blue weapon, but you can probably find some better weapons for your level.

Also, what skills are you focusing on? In my opinion as a Defender you should be focusing on the Battle Awareness and especially the Focus skills. Rally-Inspiration-Defiance also seem like good skills to help your problem.

Ofcourse I'm only level 11 and it sounds like from your experience that it's going to get tougher. At the moment I have my points spent equally in Battle Awareness-Focus, Shield Charge, Batter-Rend Armor, Shield Smash and Disable. I plan on keeping my Defense skill where it's at and build up the Battle-Awareness and especially Focus. You have a shield so might as well get as much as you can out of it.

Just my 2 gold...

Edit: Posted that before I saw your current spec. I'd get more Focus and increase your chance to block.

[revengemadmax]

Defender can do really great in normal with no other mastery ;) Just think about using:
- your shield skills, they do wonders (passive and active)
- shield charge is really useful
- go for the ranged mobs (archers and casters) first
- Rally and Inspiration help a lot (rally for healing yourself, inspiration to get more energy back than what you used for casting rally).

My conqueror stayed Defender 'till he complete Normal, and did very well (although since then he scored lots of death in Epic ;)).


hmm so maybe i should just focus purely on defence?

i hope it works.. i played my char for 11 hours.. and feel a bit stupid for chousing defender.. but reading what you said.. ill keep plugging away and hopefully it will pay off.. thanks everyone for your replys..

p.s. (I LOVE THIS GAME)

[revengemadmax]

I'm a level 11 defender and I have around the same DPS as you. Granted it is from a 60 and a 24 damage poison from my blue weapon, but you can probably find some better weapons for your level.

Also, what skills are you focusing on? In my opinion as a Defender you should be focusing on the Battle Awareness and especially the Focus skills. Rally-Inspiration-Defiance also seem like good skills to help your problem.

Ofcourse I'm only level 11 and it sounds like from your experience that it's going to get tougher. At the moment I have my points spent equally in Battle Awareness-Focus, Shield Charge, Batter-Rend Armor, Shield Smash and Disable. I plan on keeping my Defense skill where it's at and build up the Battle-Awareness and especially Focus. You have a shield so might as well get as much as you can out of it.

Just my 2 gold...

Edit: Posted that before I saw your current spec. I'd get more Focus and increase your chance to block.


thank you m8.. noted down..

im gonna just login quick and tell ya my weapon and shield..

[j1mm]

hmmm... your skills seem fine, its either just the place you're in (aka enemies your facing) or your equipment.

just keep at it, eventually you will get collossus form which is a ton of fun and is very good :D

also help out your defense by dodgeing big spells, life if they cast squall on you dont' just stand there. :D

[revengemadmax]

Sword

Patroclu's Shortblade
20~24 DMG
10% peircing
speed: fast
15 reduced armour for 3.0 secs
7%cold resistance
7%energy leech resistance
+13 strengh
+16 dex
+ 15 atack speed

shield

outriders buckler
16% chance to block 50 dmg
25dmg
10.0% chance of 116% dmg resistance
17% peirce resistance
+6 strengh
+8 dex
+24 energy
+6% energy regen
+8% atack speed
+1 shield block
-5% shield recover

crap? or crap? lol

[Darmane]

I think I had that buckler on my level 16 Conqueror, very nice. But like I said before, my weapon at level 11 is better than that :P Perhaps you can farm some bosses from earlier on in the game and find a better one.

I'd tell you what I'm using but I'm not on my home computer right now.

[j1mm]

your shield is a tad bit low level for 20.... may want to think about upgrading :D

[revengemadmax]

your shield is a tad bit low level for 20.... may want to think about upgrading :D


the anoying thing is.. ive not seen any beter..

ive seen many beter dmg resistance ect.. but none with all thouse lovely stre and dex increases..

or do i have to sacrifice certin things?

bacause ive just been waiting for somthing thats got basicly all the same but just beter? or should i just get a yello shield with beter defence?

[shakto]

A good shield is crucial, so is having batter. The only issue i've run into so far is mana :/.

If anything be absolutely certain to have the best possible shield you can find, sacrificing a little str/dex is a pretty small price to pay for the extra damage and block/block value. Almost every damage skill a defender has makes use of the damage on shields, so they are as important as a good weapon. All the random fire weapon skills make use of them

[Darmane]

Personally I really enjoy my sword (i think it's called Deathweavers legtip). It procs a nice 60ish and 20ish poison. I usually use Batter (with Rend Armor 1 for now which hits 3 targets instead of 1) and if the shield hit doesnt kill them the poison will.

What I have will probably put me in the same situation you are in when I get to your level :silenced: , but there might be some better weapon/shield combinations.

[Tenore_Titan]

are you striclty defender? So far I have conqueror at level 12. Does decent damage and can handle most mobs. Granted only level 12.

Rally is effective: adreneline is a must I think for a defender. You get hit so many times that adreneline is common. Maybe put more points in adreneline? I haven't since I don't have any points to put it till I reach the next level.

You said you put points in warfare? Battle rage my friend. Great chance for increased damage. I have onlsaught almost maxed, and as always a good shield. I haven't seen any myself for my character. Though I got a really good shield playing a summoner. Hmm go figure----- good melee gear from playing my caster.

[madtrix]

My defender is level 27 at the moment (and at the beginning of chapter 3) and does pretty fine, although the kill speed could be higher imho.
I'm only using the pure defense skills of the defender tree, as I'm planning to use the offense talents of Storm, but at the moment I only the Storm Nimbus with the first upgrade in the Storm tree. The maxed Heart of Storm Upgrade helps a slot, because it slows all attackers down.
In Defense I have only 4 points in Rally,because I don't think the healing function will be much usefull later on. But I maxed the Inspiration and Defiance Upgrades, because the Damage Reflection is really nice on some enemys. The + ~60% Elemental Resistance I'm getting is also really nice, because without the Defender is only usefull against Normal Attackers, and not against Magicans. Then I have many points in battle awareness and it's upgrades. Especially Iron Will helps a lot, because when you have some points in it, enemys that are freezing or capturing you are no longer a problem. I also have some points in Quick Recovery and use this regulary, but I'm not sure if thats really helping. I'm thinking about spending those points somewhere else. The Defense from the defense skills is really nice I think. I only used 2 potions for the second chapter end boss (But I als dealt him nearly zero damage. It was like leaning back and holding the mouse button down for about 5 minutes).

Biggest problem in Defense i've encountered is that you can't deal much damage, escpecially not to groups. I also hat big problems at the beginning of egypt. A much better sword helped. Therefore I think you should also get some offense skills. The shield attacks from the Defense tree, or some attacks from some other tree. I'm now focusing on getting the second upgrade to Storm Nimbus, which will hopefully pump up my DPS.
I'm doing about 130dps at the moment. The normal enemys usually take between 1 and 3 hits.

One other good thing is that you can find many shields which add +1 to all defense mastery skills. I'm ususally only using this kind of shields ;)

[Marine OKeefe]

Im a level 29 Pure Defender and I will say this "Defenders do not suck" jsut ask KillaJohn or RupertPumpkin

[j1mm]

Im a level 29 Pure Defender and I will say this "Defenders do not suck" jsut ask KillaJohn or RupertPumpkin

or me....

defense is super good... i have another friend who is a total dmg freak. He always wants the highest damage. He is playing a defender right now and loving it, he is switching it to his main instead of his high dps Lethal strike rogue :D

[Reader81]

Mage should not use heal potions, they should like hit and run, while warrior do need to taken the damage and cause damage in enemy, Mage taked down faster then warrior, mage has to kill enemies before they touch mage. So that's why Mage has ton heal Potinos, but they do need lot of mana potions while warrior dont need mana potions very much.

[Darmane]

Like the others in this thread I also find that Defense can dish out a good deal of damage. If you look at all of the passive abilities on the right, you can see that most of those attacks can give battle turning debuffs and strong hits. I'm not high level enough to use Pulverize but Im very eager to try it out.

And those are just the passives. Shield charge and Batter (with Rend Armor) are damn good also.

[j1mm]

Mage should not use heal potions, they should like hit and run, while warrior do need to taken the damage and cause damage in enemy, Mage taked down faster then warrior, mage has to kill enemies before they touch mage. So that's why Mage has ton heal Potinos, but they do need lot of mana potions while warrior dont need mana potions very much.

yea, thats called nuking....

tank with a mage backing them up with mass aoe spells

in general a spell caster should deal more damage than a warrior :D

[deviousmind_hkc]

When I was going through normal as a warfare/earth I thought I was having it bad having to chug a potion every 1-2 groups of mobs. I guess now I know I don't have it so bad.

[j1mm]

When I was going through normal as a warfare/earth I thought I was having it bad having to chug a potion every 1-2 groups of mobs. I guess now I know I don't have it so bad.

you got that right :D

try soloing it as a caster, you chug both potions every 3 seconds :D

[phaet2112]

Sword

Patroclu's Shortblade
20~24 DMG
10% peircing
speed: fast
15 reduced armour for 3.0 secs
7%cold resistance
7%energy leech resistance
+13 strengh
+16 dex
+ 15 atack speed


I think its partly your equipment. I think your sword is kinda cruddy. Im defense/storm in egypt now at 23, but I used the cyclops hammer for a long time. Im surprised your DPS is so low if considering how fast that sword is. I have 124 DPS right now with just one point in the meele damage storm power (forget the name) with about 200 in str. My own axe which Im using right now has life leach, % of damage converted to health, and I enchanted it with piercing damage. Im maxing out my items to get the most DPS benefit I can- boost to attack speed on my bracers, amulet and both rings add and boost elemental damage I do.

If you are warfare, mmm...Id say mix up the shield attacks with your regular attacks. Religiously check the equipment each and every time you portal back into town to make sure you aren't missing a better weapon. That's how I picked up the axe and bracers Im using right now. Honestly, for the majority of skills, I have only 1 point invested in them right now as I just want the base power as Im levelling up the mastery itself. I have both Storm and Defense up to 24 point and cruising towards Collossus form. You could save on some points and invest them in some more of the passive shield skills in Defense.

EDIT- I think you overspent on adrenaline, for example. Such a small chance to proc...eh
Im at about 200 Str and 200 Dex right now at 23, for example.

Actually you are also underutilizing Warfare. Respec out some points (at 20 you only need like 2 or 3 at most in each skill...its more important to get the higher level masteries), put 1 into Battle Rage, Weapon Training, Crushing Blow, Battle Standard...man soo many nice passive proc skills to boost your damage output...Put more in them :)

[j1mm]

also check your stat point distribution, even it out some and check damage....

in end game stat points give the most bonus and determine the damage rather than weapon. :D

[revengemadmax]

I think its partly your equipment. I think your sword is kinda cruddy. Im defense/storm in egypt now at 23, but I used the cyclops hammer for a long time. Im surprised your DPS is so low if considering how fast that sword is. I have 124 DPS right now with just one point in the meele damage storm power (forget the name) with about 200 in str. My own axe which Im using right now has life leach, % of damage converted to health, and I enchanted it with piercing damage. Im maxing out my items to get the most DPS benefit I can- boost to attack speed on my bracers, amulet and both rings add and boost elemental damage I do.

If you are warfare, mmm...Id say mix up the shield attacks with your regular attacks. Religiously check the equipment each and every time you portal back into town to make sure you aren't missing a better weapon. That's how I picked up the axe and bracers Im using right now. Honestly, for the majority of skills, I have only 1 point invested in them right now as I just want the base power as Im levelling up the mastery itself. I have both Storm and Defense up to 24 point and cruising towards Collossus form. You could save on some points and invest them in some more of the passive shield skills in Defense.

EDIT- I think you overspent on adrenaline, for example. Such a small chance to proc...eh
Im at about 200 Str and 200 Dex right now at 23, for example.

Actually you are also underutilizing Warfare. Respec out some points (at 20 you only need like 2 or 3 at most in each skill...its more important to get the higher level masteries), put 1 into Battle Rage, Weapon Training, Crushing Blow, Battle Standard...man soo many nice passive proc skills to boost your damage output...Put more in them :)

hmm thanks m8.

200 str amd 200 dex? waaa

im lv 20 with 170-180 str and 140-150 dex... go figue... T_T

id also like to thank everyone for helping out. its very much appreciated. :rockon:

[j1mm]

no problem man :D

[Black Phoenix]

hm, i've decided to start a new char and wanna make him a paladin (recreate my diablo favorite :D)

So far i understood that defence/storm is quite a good combination is it?- having nice defence + good attack capabilitys. The only dilema i have is- should i use as one of my primary attack ice shard ot lighning.. or just use the auras, melee added skills...In other thread i really was amazed by the devastating effect of the storm spells.. but i wonder how effective they will be with a half-melee- half mage char- with strenght/int. 50-50

[j1mm]

well thats one of the problems with hybrids, you're sacrificing proficiency in one area so that you can cover all areas. I would lean more towards the melee side... because you will end up using alot of shield skills and for good armor/shields you need good str/dex. You get more of that from Defense, and if you want to cast spells you need more intel/nrg and with just 1 mastery covering that you will not have as high elemental damage or as much nrg as normal mages. :D

[TheDuke]

I'm lvl 23 now IIRC, have 5 skill points unspent and about 13 stat points.

For a while I struggled, mainly around lvl 18-20, but than I farmed the Act 1 boss a bit for better equipment, so except for my bracers and weapon everything I wear is blue now. My weapon is one of them very fast swords in Egypt with vitaly damage, life leech and upgraded with a +piercing damage, energy leech completed relic. DPS is around 150 atm. Shield is blue and has a +1 Warfare/+1 Defense which really helps.

Just ended Act 2 and my sole problem is resists, anything not caster I kill very fast. I try to round up big groups around me, with my shield procs and batter I drop 'm so fast it's unfunny :razz: Solo boss mobs are extremely easy as well.

I have Defense mastery maxed and 1 point in most skills, except for the Shield Charge line. Only have 4 in Warfare mastery, I only have Dodge maxed and a few skillpoints in Onslaught and Weapon Training.

My main worry will stay resists for a while, especially with the penalties in higher difficulties :happy:

[Therion_Prime]

I hope you'll find a better weapon soon.
My lvl 32 conjurer had 'crappy' 300ish dps until I found an epic staff that more than doubled it (~720). When I noticed that I looked like this: :eek:

[Marine OKeefe]

With the Top-Level Defender Shield Attack, I can wipe out a group of Dragons with two hits with that + Colossus, bosses cant even damage me.

Too bad there is no Shield DPS counter.

I dread the day I have to pick a second mastery.

[ralf_snake]

Hmm im warfare/earth and when i walk around with the fire on my blades i dont need any poyions for a pretty long time.

[phaet2112]

hm, i've decided to start a new char and wanna make him a paladin (recreate my diablo favorite :D)

So far i understood that defence/storm is quite a good combination is it?- having nice defence + good attack capabilitys. The only dilema i have is- should i use as one of my primary attack ice shard ot lighning.. or just use the auras, melee added skills...In other thread i really was amazed by the devastating effect of the storm spells.. but i wonder how effective they will be with a half-melee- half mage char- with strenght/int. 50-50

j1mm has it covered- you can be storm/defense caster type if you work on getting your int and energy up, but the auras do reserve a fair amount of energy. You may find yourself always wanting more energy. My energy is <500, and I have less than 1/3 of a bar when I have my 3 auras going. Then again, I only use energy for rally and squall, so I just click away...

Storm surge is nice :)

[Psychade]

I am Defense/Warfare lvl 23
I have picked up onslaught and a few other things in warefare. The weapon speed boost, dodge, and a point in battle rage.

In Defense I picked up almost all of the passives I can get. I don't use any attacks other than onslaught and I throw off a rally when I have it. I do ok, there are times I have to chug potions, like the stupid worms in egypt really give me a run for my money. Overall though I tear thru most things with 1 or 2 shots.

[Devatox]

I'm a 24 Def/Rogue in Act 3. I use rogue trees right now only for the calculated strike and blade honing. I have a store-bought Green weapon with 19% haste on it with greens and blues for equip.

My defense tree is full of the passive abilities.
Adrenaline Tree is Maxed (I'm always getting hit, and I always get Adrenaline activated. Surprisingly, the ability that lets you get adrenaline charges more often is noticeably better with 3 points in it)

1 in Rally. With my 2000 HP, rally's 250HP Heal is nothing.. but I like the cumulative group effect.

1 in Battle Awareness/Focus/Iron Will.

None in the Quick Recovery line. No Batter, No Rend. 1 in Colossus Form.
1 in Armor Handling, Maxed out Pulverize.

That's pretty much it, and I can wipe through plenty of mobs with NP right now. I use a potion once every couple of battles in China.

I changed chars and made a Warfare/Spirit one a couple of days ago, and am having more fun with that right now.. I'll probably go back and forth. I notice warfare DOES take a lot more damage than Defense.

[Broseph357]

My defender is level 15 and does around 285 dps. Yall need to find better weapons lol. I have a storm mastery background adding dps and what not with nimbus, i have found a weapon called a quicksilver blugeon which does like 54 damage or whatever, but unlike most maces, its a fast attack speed. Does large damage and it really makes my defender kick ass.

[n8iLLiES]

I think Defense is a very good mastery, actually. I'm currently workin' on my Level 34 Conqeror (Warfare/Defense) and although I am dual weilding most of the time, I will occasionally switch to my secondary group (mace/shield) and I use the Shield Bash and rush attack quite a bit. I just wanted a brainless muscle character and this has been a very good combo. I aced the last boss at level 31 the first try...

[n8iLLiES]

My defender is level 15 and does around 285 dps.


What are you using? That's nuts.

[Marine OKeefe]

Thats 285 DPS not counting the shield which does most of the damage dealt in-combat.

[j1mm]

Thats 285 DPS not counting the shield which does most of the damage dealt in-combat.

true, shield is used most of the time with defenders. So personally don't worry about the numbers so much, if you live and kill them then you're good. :D

[Mung Beans]

Well I don't seem to having much problems with my juggernaut class (Defense/Earth). I mean I still need to use potions, especially against magic users, but I don't seem to have a problem with fire magic though, because of my earth class.

I just killed the second Telkin, and he couldn't even take my health down to halfway, mind you I am still playing normal.

Once I get colossus form it I will be raining hell down on them :P. Man this game rocks!