Making this to kiddish isnt wise

[Maji]

there is to many kids games atm and the biggest users are actually people who grew up with titles like diablo and most us are over 16, im 24 myself and know personally about 2000 other people around my age who play such games in all the guilds in all games ive played, it getting teen rating cause of lack of realism and gore kinda is disapointment, eye candy isnt what will make a game, what age group you looking for anyway? most kids now days play games with realism and gore and dynamic element effects and enjoy them more, the only games teen rated are for those in ages of 10-14 and im telling you now you will not sell well if that what your aiming for simply because at that age group there is plenty of choices and parents who have morals anyway wont even let the kids play it due to the violence, so your should aimed for 16+ and word of mouth would spread like a virus a new mature aged game is realised which is what thousands of us have been waiting for since diablo 2 fact it is a kids game will make alot people just think not worth playing, I personally dont even buy teen rated games it just is unrealistic and getting boring fast I and many others been waiting for a game for mature people one that incorperated it all it is disapointing reading about this games lack of realism and elemental dynamics based in the gore, a monster falling down just dont cut it for me ive played games before like that were good graphics nice gameplay but became frizbis because of the boring way things would die repetitive uncreative games really bore people, please consider adding a option to enable MA rated effects in game for those who want it to be mroe real I mean if your hero fighting a monster asif youre sword wont make them bleed or a fireball wont light them on fire, without that it just feels like im playing a game not indeph in the game...Sigh you will lose alot money if it comes out teenrated I saw the box in the shop and thought sigh another kids game only found out it looked potentional by a video on gamespot, my first impression looking at the box was actually its for kids, since kids dont have the money why is so many companys thinking video games are actually more for kids cause the kids style games totally different to mature people and it is the mature games which do well, look at broodwar look at diablo 2 look at warcraft 3 and other titles which made millions, even wow is crap now cause they made it a kids game too. thousands of people have been quiting it laterly... Oh if this game some how gained a mature rating and included what I spoke I would get you at least in excess 100k customers as that about amount people I know from all games i play that are mature rated, but I cant support this if it teen it just a kids games and is dispointing.

effects are one thing what the effect do to the mobs is another, seriously seeing them mobs fall down like there sleeping was so sad and unrealistic I im losing interesting the skills effects however are interesting but without the gore or at least proper elemental dyanamics it will get boring fast not mention there is people who simply wont buy any game rated T because it is simply crap, it just PG with violence you should aimed for older people most us grew up gaming and are disapointed by lack of mature games get a option to enable Ma effects plz so we can enjoy the game like it built for us and kids can enjoy it as the PG rated with violence called T that they can enjoy without people whining about the gore.

[Hoss]

So, would you not see a good movie just because it's rated "PG"?

I'm a "Mature" gamer, I am not a kid & I have no kids, yet feel that this game will lose absolutely nothing by sticking to a "Teen" rating. It's just a rating. You want to talk about money? This game WILL make more money internationally sticking to a lower demographic base that parents/governments/socities will not feel threatened about it's content. This does not make it less "kiddy" or enjoyable.

I do enjoy more mature games (GTA comes to mind), but it seems the only ones that make a big deal about it are those that are too immature to handle it.

[Maji]

Hoss do you realise why it got a teen rating? cause it has no gore or realism in respect to the attacking sure has knock back and fall down but without rest is only eye candy for the skills casting not the actually death effects... My point about rating is because if it had content that made it MA 15+ or MA it would contain proper realism and some gore and be like the original diablo only with awesome graphics skills ands new concepts...

well let compare the more created for mature to the kiddy titles who are the bigger companys more respected and making more money, seriously you know yourself that there is lack of games for us and not having a option to make it more like the games for our age is really disapointing is it not... and dude ive spoken to people already who are disheartened by it being unrealistic in respect to gore and interaction of the elemental dynamics if they cant add blood at least make proper effects for the spell trees I mean ice should have ice effect fire fire lighting lighting etc...

I dont need agree with me but your wrong thinking that the kids games sell more than games like starcraft and diablo, kids games are more for consoles not PCs. I watch PG movies but doesnt mean I like PG games not in that style of play if it hack and slash it needs gore else it is not hack and slash, they are giving in to the bs that people with ignorant views have caused in gaming decline the developers losing own freedom of expression because of having to abide bs laws that ignorant people who think games cause violence in people helped install, really if one is violent they have the potentional either way the people who claimed the bs are either religious finatics or out for money.

[Hoss]

You keep using StarCraft & WarCraft for reference:

StarCraft = Rated "T" for Animated Blood & Gore, Stong Language
WarCraft 3 = Rated "T"
Baldur's Gate = "T" (all of them)
Morrowind = "T"
Age of Empires = "T"
Champions of Norrath (PS2 - same genre as TQ) = "T"

Using your own examples of games that made millions. I still fail to see how a rating makes a difference. Trust me, you're not going to miss something that's not there.

[Maji]

T can have gore? I just thought since the post about the rating said this game will have no gore that T meant gore isnt included your telling me they put T on animated Gore isnt it all animated anyway? I mean it not like it is real Gore I appologise then for my statement I see, what was diablo 1 rated thou? you sure starcraft is rated T i mean it does have a fair bit dieing affects that could be considered gore mostly terran and zerg...isnt T a new thing thou and only got put on them when they realised them the second time? correct me if im wrong I just wanted the gore in diablo 2 at least that way it more real, didnt ask for heads limbs blowing of just a little bit blood or others anyway why do people care so much about gore anyway I mean come on we see worse on our movies, knowing gore is better than not knowing if one didnt know gore then one would not know how gore happens imagine if u never seen what happens when someone is shot or heard then u find yourself a gun theres chance you would harm yourself or others for not knowing the effect.

Anyway I will judge by the demo, all classic games I liked baldurs gate 1 as well thou i dont know champions of norrath was it good, how kewl was the start part were that uber mage guy gets ambushed by the end boss and his elite :) gotta love the magic missle effects

[Alkaidia]

(Edit)

Sorry I see that you just misunderstood the rating and that was all. Yes Starcraft was rated Teen though the original Diablo was rated mature. By the way the developers have said that there will be realistic spell efffects in Titan Quest, (and you have to admit there weren't really in Diablo).

[Maji]

true but in diablo2 was a few, kinda wish it had minmal gore i mean the animation of the kill was part of the fun, dont you agree imagine if d1 and d2 didnt have such kewl ways of dieing that it did wouldnt been so good...by spell effects do u mean things will light on fire and be frozen etc?

[Maji]

honestly I think this game has potentional but could be a dier thanks to the no gore, you know well I know people into hack and slash style games fast paced like the gore I think it might not have enough sales way it is now, I mean come on no gore in a hack and slash what is next no violence in games like unreal tournament, were is it heading cant you see the point im making here that developers are giving in to all that bs that happened some ignorant people with no idea what they claim ruin the genes cause of there own ignorant to understanding why they are way they are...

I may be getting about patriotic here but I like the freedom to play which ever game style I like and for it to be real and based on what would actually happen, its annoying me that we are losing rights even in the gaming industry about what is acceptable and isnt. what bothers me most is the companys wont actually stand up against these rating companys like esrb...

[Alkaidia]

true but in diablo2 was a few, kinda wish it had minmal gore i mean the animation of the kill was part of the fun, dont you agree imagine if d1 and d2 didnt have such kewl ways of dieing that it did wouldnt been so good...by spell effects do u mean things will light on fire and be frozen etc?

Eyejinx said this on page nine of the "Questions to Developers" thread:


There are differentiations in resistances to different types of elemental damage for different monsters. There are effects involved in elemental attacks; for example, there is a fire effect that attaches to monsters who are taking burning damage, and I believe I saw an arrow sticking into an object last night, but I'm not entirely sure on that one.

I am assuming that since there is fire effects people will get frozen and stuff, too. Even if the fire isn't as realistic as it could be, the only games I have seen with realistic fire effects have been rts games.

[johna999]

Massive Diablo 2 fan. But also a fan of Guild Wars. The latter didn't have any gore which didn't make the game any worse, after a while you don't notice it.

By all accounts this TQ is fast paced, I suspect after a short period of time you wont notice the lack of gore. I did enjoy the gore effects in Diablo 2 but, it did get a bit rediculous, I remember some tough monsters taking ages to kill and each stroke of the sword produced blood. No-way cold the monster have that much blood.

[Starwind]

Amen johna999!!

I posted earlier in the gore thread about some blood and goo effects that would have been nice. We know now that gore wont be implemented in the game, and for me, it wont be the end of the world.

I've been around the video game scene since its beginning (yes, ive played Pong). I remember the old games like asteroids, centipede, amidar, pacman, some more recents like the nintendo games, the Final Fantasy serie, the Mechwarrior serie, Age of Empires.... The list could go on and on. Even though these games werent hack and slash, they were very fun to play and some still are.

The visuals dont make a game and you dont play a game on a long period of time because of the graphics, but rather for the gameplay. I played diablo 1 and 2 intensively, believe me. But i wasnt playing those because of the gore, but because of the gameplay and the replay value associated with the loot. What a great feeling it was to craft your first 'Heart of the Oak'. The same will apply here. And for what ive seen so far in the game, the animations and ragdoll physics will compensate for that lack of gore. Just watch those goatmen fly in the air after being hit by a thunder spell. I'm hooked :) . And if the game doesnt cut it for me, it wont be because of the gore, but because of the gameplay and the replay value.

But for now, this game could potentially feel the gap before the next Diablo installment, which could be a couple of years from now :eek: (Yes Diablo 3 is coming and it will be a battle between heaven and hell).

[Gorkk]

Massive Diablo 2 fan. But also a fan of Guild Wars. The latter didn't have any gore which didn't make the game any worse, after a while you don't notice it.

By all accounts this TQ is fast paced, I suspect after a short period of time you wont notice the lack of gore. I did enjoy the gore effects in Diablo 2 but, it did get a bit rediculous, I remember some tough monsters taking ages to kill and each stroke of the sword produced blood. No-way cold the monster have that much blood.
QFE. I played the game 3 hours at a press showcase, and I didn't notice that gore was missing ;)

[johna999]

Wow, 3 hrs how was it?

My biggest concearn about he game is the commerce. Though one of the developers has kindly answerd a question which sounds good.

A problem with D2 and GWs was after a while you just didn't get any decent drops and the shops never stocked anything better tahn you already had. I know I could have had more magic finding points in D2 amongst my inventory. I'm on the third difficulty stage on the third act and haven't changed armour/weaponary since level 2 and in some instances level 1. It reduces the motivation to keep going. GWs is even worse, the clothing side is OK but not much difference between the stages though I did like the ability to salvage and build with the armourer with the materials but the weaponary advancement was terrible.

I too have heard the heaven and hell battle for D3. I suspect it will be longer than 2 years before we see anything. Blizzard take their time. Can't believe it has been 5 yrs since LOD.

[Maji]

wonder if d3 will have gore then, if it dont wont be same ill be disapointed, btw were you here this heaven and hell what is it gonna be like you can be evil or good? this is strange is it a rpg or like wow?

[johna999]

The heaven and hell is an unconfirmed rumour. I doubt you could battle is evil or good. There are again rumours that it will follow the approach of War3 and WoW but I wouldn't sppend too much time deliberating until the announcemnt is made. It seems pretty nailed on that something is in the works, we are just waiting for the what/how & when.

I suspect it wont have gore. War3 & WoW didn't if memory serves. I think that the age ratings have got a lot more stringent. LOD with all its gore was 15. War3 was 12. I suspect a gore D3 would get an 18 now.

[Gorkk]

The heaven and hell is an unconfirmed rumour. I doubt you could battle is evil or good. There are again rumours that it will follow the approach of War3 and WoW but I wouldn't sppend too much time deliberating until the announcemnt is made. It seems pretty nailed on that something is in the works, we are just waiting for the what/how & when.

I suspect it wont have gore. War3 & WoW didn't if memory serves. I think that the age ratings have got a lot more stringent. LOD with all its gore was 15. War3 was 12. I suspect a gore D3 would get an 18 now.
Indeed, rating in the US have gone more and more stringent. The sad thing is that in the end those limitations are forced on other areas of the world, as it's generaly too much work for not much to have different versions with different gore settings. Sacred had 3 different English versions because of that : the UK (international) version, with gore enabled, the Australian version, with gore disabled by default but you could enable, and the US version with no gore (well, actually you could kinda "hack" it to enable it, but was not that easy), and you could not enable it (for SP, as it seems in MP all were no gore, but never noticed in fact).

Games that were 12+ when they were released would now be 18+, that's plain silly... Specialy when you consider how much violence and sex American kids can see on TV and in the movies...

[~V~]

When designing Titan Quest we knew there would be players that would be disappointed by our decision to not include excessive gore in the game. As a result we spent a great deal of time making sure that killing monsters would be satisfying without blood spurting everywhere. The rag doll physics is an unbelieveable ammount of fun. Knocking monsters back into trees and watching them slide down the trunks into a pile at the base. Hitting them with an uppercut sword strike and sending them atop a nearby boulder just to watch them tumble down the other side in a lifeless lump. Hitting a charging mob with a ranged attack and watch them crumble and cartwheel to a stop at your feet is unbeliveably satisfying. All that combined with the impact particles from elemental damage, weapon enchantments and skills. I'd bet that 10 minutes into the game, most of you won't even realize that there is no blood. :)

[Maji]

Diablo 3 with no blood man id boycotte it, it better not be like wow i hate that game it eats to much time and to much time looking for groups spend half the game trying get partys...

Ya its stupid ffs half people in america own guns, they see violence in there own neighbour hoods its bs that games are getting blamed for phsycotic behavoir from certain people, Why do they think games make people violent a person has violence in them before they even play a game it just some people are phsyco's with a limited way of thinking and no compassion for the effect of there own choices, so why should legit people who just like realism suffer, rag doll all good etc but it kinda dont seem real like gore does make it seem real, man if the new ut has no gore it wouldnt be ut lol...

But your game isnt a sequel so if you want to try start a change long it dont mess up our already nefed gore that is fine, I hope blizzard take some your ideas and put it with gore that would be the best im gonna be pissed if diablo 3 when it does come is a wow clone or a no gore kids game, diablo series is the diablo series because of the gore, there is people who will not buy it if it has no gore, you sure that they wont realise it with gore now? it really getting that bad who made these laws up why dont you voice opinion...

[Maji]

which company made sacred I respect that they went to the trouble to offer a choice not force people to accept, they made for all the market I respect that alot...

[Gorkk]

which company made sacred I respect that they went to the trouble to offer a choice not force people to accept, they made for all the market I respect that alot...
That was Ascaron. But imho it more was the other way around, they didn't have much choice: I'm pretty sure they at first didn't thought about those limitations, and made the game with German (and EU, as it's rather the same all over EU) ratings, hence with some gore, and later had to disable it by default for Australia, and block it completely for US to be rated like it should be. We'll see with Sacred 2, but i'd guess there won't be 3 different English versions for Sacred 2, but rather one version with few if not no gore :(

[Lestai]

It was already stated there wont be any official gore so you are just beating a dead horse.

I think you need to look at the facts, the game is not themed to be a horror game so why would it have blood & gore, when in fact its an action/adventure rpg, not a horror rpg. And btw, combat doesnt look so bad, it actualy looks cool.

Maybe diablo was rated adult but it was also themed to fight demons and stuff, so is in a way very diffrent from TQ, you almost have to expect there will be blood when it comes to diablo, but i dont see why anyone would fuss over TQ and it not having any gore. Its just not that kind of game. A good example would be you are watching your cartoons, powerpuff girls and then you complain there is no gore !!! :eek:

Peace, but maybe you should look for other games, resident evil, or silent hill, the witcher, those titals seem better suited to have gore then TQ does.

Good luck.

Big hugs,
Lestai

[Maji]

its more for realism things with blood bleed rather simple...as i said ill see what other effects they have before judging...

[Napoleon]

Hi Maji. Here is my opinion: To be honest I cannot see your problem. You are talking about one silly thing... blood.

Okay okay true, its more realistic, but are you sure that no blood really is going to make this game lame?
Normally I do not notice the blood at all- why should I? .. it is just a little detail. And I think it is stupid, if you think this game is ruined without a little detail, because this game contains dozens of really interesting elements, which is much more refined than just lots of blood.
And actually I also think you are pretty alone out there. I have never heard of anyone with such a blood-lust. I mean.. you obviously think TQ is a interesting game, since you are using so much time in these forums, but still you are not willing to pay 50$?
So no blood = no fun.. huh? You are a scary fellow.

And by the way.. You also think no blood = game is kiddish?
I am sure it is kids who are getting hurt the most, and it's the kids who are wanting blood the most.
Many years ago I also thought slashing blood was kinda cool (but not as much as you though)- now I don't care- it's red water. I am 17 year old.

/Napoleon

[Alkaidia]

And actually I also think you are pretty alone out there. I have never heard of anyone with such a blood-lust.

I don't really care for blood either but this thread on this forum might give you a shock:
http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?messageID=564644&sls=2&threadID=65178

[Variola]

I agree with Napoleon. You really don't need blood for the game to be a good game. I played D2 for about three years, and the only time I really noticed the gore was the first hour or so that I played it. I kept playing because it was a great game, not because I thought it looked more "mature". The TQ developers are saying everything is cool even without all the blood. I'm going to trust them on that. They know a lot more about this than we do.

[Maji]

Its more because I like feeling it isnt a game im playing it me in the game, so realism is key important to me things which bleed bleed things which crumble crumble kewl animations are a plus, best game with both was diablo 1 it was fun to see the different gore effects and even diablo 1 didnt have limbs flying about just unique ways dieing like some enermys cut in half and goo comes out etc...games becoming less real and more a game cause of these new bs laws by the ignorant who try to speak for us, they dont even know half the stuff they claim on our behave, protesting over game voilence, go protest over something that maters like the sedition laws "they are sheep" creativity and freedom of expression is slowly being drained out eventually our world will be like that in movie equalibium :(...

[nicholas]

So, would you not see a good movie just because it's rated "PG"?

I'm a "Mature" gamer, I am not a kid & I have no kids, yet feel that this game will lose absolutely nothing by sticking to a "Teen" rating. It's just a rating. You want to talk about money? This game WILL make more money internationally sticking to a lower demographic base that parents/governments/socities will not feel threatened about it's content. This does not make it less "kiddy" or enjoyable.

I do enjoy more mature games (GTA comes to mind), but it seems the only ones that make a big deal about it are those that are too immature to handle it.

Yeah, Diablo is only M due to its Hell themes. Its not that violent. So the rating isnt that important. It looks like a Teen rating game anyways.

[Napoleon]

I don't really care for blood either but this thread on this forum might give you a shock:
http://forums.ea.com/mboards/thread.jspa?messageID=564644&sls=2&threadID=65178
Gulp - so many people with such a hunger for blood. I am shocked :eek:!

Still I do not see the reason that every computer should have tons of gore. As far as I know, this game is not trying to get you into a killing spree- No, it is trying to give you funny experience with different combinations of skills, weapons to fight against mythically creatures.
It might be true that blood is a nice detail which makes the game a bit more realistic, but most older computer games had terrible graphics, and therefore had a lack of essential details - but were very funny eventhough. Actually most blood was totally exaggerated, and just made me laugh - like star craft. So yes.. I laughed.. but only once. It was not the blood which made Star Craft a cool game.

So I cannot see the reason that blood should glue you into the game. But well maybe I am the exception- I do not see much reason to spend any evening watching silly horror films either.;)

[-Aerows-]

After checking out some of the screenshots (and being a Sacred player for quite some time with the UK version), looking at the heaps of "dead" bodies, I sort of understand what you are saying. When I first started reading this, I thought, "what the hell difference does it make as long as the game is fun?" Now that it has been brought to my attention, the screenshots at least, do seem to be lacking. They just look like heaps of fur blankets laying in the market square (looking at the Egyptian market battle).

Dungeon Siege, (forgive me for even mentioning that "I'm-Bored Winning" title) even had the option to make the blood green instead of red so as not to offend.

It was rather awesome to see the evil magicians in Sacred spurt black blood and see it pool beneath the bodies, and of course there was red for the other things. It kind of got gross at times if you really paid attention to it (severed limbs, severed heads, etc.) BUT there was absolutely no question as to whether you had absolutely anihilated your foes in that game.


I've been playing Oblivion lately, and to be honest, this "rag-doll physics makes up for no blood" dog doesn't hunt, in my opinion. Oblivion has freaky enough elements to it that I for SURE wouldn't let a young child play it, yet there is no blood. And now that I think about it, it is REALLY stupid to watch a bow strike hit an enemy in the chest, send him flying backwards 10 feet, yet he doesn't bleed? What?

What are kids really being "desensitized" to here? And what have you really "sanitized"? Oh, now we don't see blood anymore, but we realisticly see bodies flying around. That's a GIGANTIC improvement?

Little Johnny is now "desensitized" to the fact that when he shoots someone in the chest they don't just stand there, bleed and then drop, but they do in fact recoil and fly backwards. But they don't have any icky blood coming out, because that's a bit too realistic? Or there is a cloud of blood that disappears after said graphic death that causes opponent to fly backwards, etc., because that is more "sanitized?"

It looks to me like trading in an apple with a worm for a badly bruised one instead.

I think we should protect children (I'm probably older than most of you on this board..I'm old enough that I could have children at the iffy ages where such decisions have to be made ) certainly, but come on, let's be real.

Hanging, rotting corpses, charred bodies etc. are not any less horrific just because they don't have blood. They are just less real - much like showing someone getting shot, but just standing there, bleeding and then dropping.

(I do ramble on, don't I...I swear I'm going to make a point here, somewhere....)

I guess what I'm trying to say is this - If you are going to show one, you really should show it ALL. It's silly to try to "sanitize" violence, and yet show violent and graphic flying bodies.

I'm a big fan of choice. I *like* the option of turning the gore off if it gets to be too much, or turning it on if I want a rougher and more realistic experience. If parents can't monitor their kids and don't know them well enough to make sure that "little johnny" keeps the gore setting turned off, then "little johnny"
shouldn't be on the computer to begin with.

It's rather silly to try to "sanitize" adult experiences this way. It's like getting a rating because there is no nudity, yet the characters are having full on sex with their clothes on. (and if you don't know what I'm talking about, well, ;) you aren't old enough to be having this argument).

[Napoleon]

Sorry for using your post -Aerows-, its not because I don't see your points, but i had to pick one ;). Now read it. Maybe you will become angry, and cannot see the relevance, but this is just my thoughts:

After checking out some of the screenshots (and being a Sacred player for quite some time with the UK version), looking at the fields with the flowers, I sort of understand what you are saying. When I first started reading this, I thought, "what the hell difference does lack of dandelions make as long as the game is fun?" Now that it has been brought to my attention, the screenshots at least, do seem to be lacking. The fields just look like huge lawns in my backyard (looking at the Egyptian fields).

Dungeon Siege, (forgive me for even mentioning that "I'm-Bored Winning" title) even had the option to make the dandelions green instead of red so as not to offend.

It was rather awesome to see the evil magicians in Sacred walk in black dandelions and see the flowers wither at the fields. It kind of got beautifully at times if you really paid attention to it (severed leafs, severed corollas, etc.) BUT there was absolutely no question as to whether you had absolutely experienced the nature in that game.

I've been playing Oblivion lately, and to be honest, this "rag-doll physics makes up for no dandelions" dog doesn't hunt, in my opinion. Oblivion has freaky enough flowers to it that I for SURE wouldn't let an old man play it, yet there is no dandelions. And now that I think about it, it is REALLY stupid to watch a man running in these huge meadows, yet he doesn't see any dandelions? What?

[-Aerows-]

Your post didn't anger me, because it is a straw man, uh, dandelion man argument...LOL. Meaning, it seems to make cogent points in the debate at hand, but is really not saying anything that pertains to the debate at all.

Nice try though :).

Thanks for playin'


What I said was that Oblivion has violent and even gruesome images. The physics involved in making a body fly as though it has been impaled by a high velocity arrow or stricken with a large sword IS violent. My question is why is one form of violence acceptable, but another is not? What have you sanitized? Show one, show the other.

It is really a broader question of what the ratings system actually accomplishes. My question was is Oblivion any less violent because of the lack of blood? I don't think so. Is it less realistic? I think so.

By the way, to go along with your err dandelion man arguement, here's a quote by another Napoleon -

"If you wish to be a success in the world,
promise everything, deliver nothing."

Napoleon Bonaparte

[Napoleon]

So you do not see the relevance :). And you do not think there is no comparison between blood and dandelions. Thats okay- My post was also somehow bizzare.
The point was just that blood details are just as uninteresting as dandelions :p

[-Aerows-]

You replied before I finished my edit. In the interest of not gagging up the board with double posts, I edited mine because I had accidently hit submit instead of preview. ;)

-Aerows-

[Napoleon]

Okay, I see. But actually I do agree with the last part of your post. Censorship of blood is pointless, since blood is only a minor part of the huge violence in most games.

But then again; it doesn't boil my piss, since I don't see blood as an important factor.
-It's a nice detail... but dandelions are that too.
-It makes you feel that you killed something!- ya but since the sound of knacking bones still is missing, I prefer killing my pets. I am not playing computer games for blood rush. I am playing for the flower rush: Environment, adventures and character development, etc.

And nice quote you got there... "promise everything, deliver nothing".. sounds like danish politics.

[-Aerows-]

LOL Napoleon, believe me, it is not limited to Danish Politicians. Since I'm on a quote gig, here's 2 from Aristophanes, way before both our time and that of Napoleon Bonaparte:

"Under every stone lurks a politician."

"You have all the characteristics of a popular politician: a horrible voice, bad breeding, and a vulgar manner."

Aristophanes

Then there is the ever popular, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, become lawyers. The rest become politicians."

I don't know who said that, but one look at my own government, and I know this to be the truth...LOL.

I digress.

I don't think we are actually debating opposite sides. Also, I can't smell the "dandelions" either, I suppose THAT makes it less realistic, as well.

I suppose I drifted OT, because I wasn't questioning the wisdom of making the game "kiddish" at all, rather I was questionining the wisdom of the rating system that dictates what is "acceptable" violence and what crosses the line.

Therefore, to that end, here is one more:

"The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and robbers there will be."

Lao-tzu

[Napoleon]

You have a lot of interesting quotes at your disposal there. It sounds like you are working with them in your everyday?

Opposite sides? No, not really. I was just making fun of ya, because I do not care for blood at all. I could get a much more explosive debate with Maji.. it seems like I disagree with him a lot .

Well I also got to go.
[innocent voice] I want to pick some flowers and smell the pure nature [/innocent voice].

[-Aerows-]

I just now read this:

"May 3, 2006 (Rockville, MD) – The ESRB has revoked their Teen rating for The Elder Scrolls® IV: Oblivion™ for the PC and the Xbox 360 and has assigned the game a new rating of Mature. The ESRB reports that this is due to content in the game that was not fully disclosed when rating the game initially. Bethesda, not its co-publisher, developed the game, handled the ratings application before the ESRB, and stands behind it."

Read the full article here.
http://www.bethsoft.com/news/pressrelease_050306.htm

[Alkaidia]

In my opinion blood and gore are actually different things and what they should be rating is gore but what they are rating is blood. If I see the monsters bleed a bit it is not really gory but something like the torture you see in the jails in D2 is, (if you look at it closely some of it is really gross). I also feel that not having blood is actually a lot worse for kids because it doesn't show the real consequences and if they can't handle the consequences they shouldn't be playing the game. For example I always noticed that my siblings and I had a far greater grip on reality then other kids I knew. That is partly because we were never allowed to watch things like superhero shows at a young age because they could do anything without getting hurt and that was the message portrayed to the people watching. You might say "But that's silly people know they can't do things like fly." which is true, but kid don't realize that at a lower level if you know what I mean. Basically what I'm trying to say is that blood shouldn't change the rating at all. Making it unrealistic actually harms the kids more then it helps them. At the same time I don't really care for blood at all. The decision for blood should be wether the developers want blood or not. They shouldn't have to change it for the rating.

PS. Boy that was a long post :)

[Maji]

good point alkaidia imagine if people didnt know what happens if you hit someone with a knife or another dangerous objects, then they play around and wonder what that red stuff is coming out, knowledge is power and ignorance is dangerous there not allowing people to not know things as it truely is does indeed increase chances of such accidents, but its there ignorance in thinking it will stop violence...

Kinda taking choice away too isnt it, when did we say we wanted games dubbed down were did this all start look at house of dead 3 it is a joke to play compared to 1...

[J Bone]

I have a couple questions about this blood/gore thing. First off, this game centers around monsters/mythical creatures. Who is to say that they have normal looking red humanlike blood or does that even matter? For example, I was watching Clash of the Titans the other day, which is pg13. And after perseus killed medusa(choped her head off) some nasty orangish tomatoe paste came out. Now is that considered blood? Is the decapitation of a vile monster like medusa considered gore? What determines the ratings? Is it violence toward other humans or humanoids? What if you cut the head off a robot and oil spurted out? Would that be considered blood/gore? When rating a game is there a distinction between killing something that is real and imaginary?
Personally, if one in five or ten monsters showed some sign of there blood/lifeforce leaving there body that would be fine. I wouldn't want to see it constantly or see gallons of blood shooting out. I think the most important death animations will come from the boss monsters and titans. I have faith that the developers will get it right.:)

[Karmeck]

blood and gore is not the same thing. That is why it say "Blood and gore" on youre game box not only gore.

[Alkaidia]

What determines the ratings? Is it violence toward other humans or humanoids? What if you cut the head off a robot and oil spurted out? Would that be considered blood/gore? When rating a game is there a distinction between killing something that is real and imaginary?
I guess that is what I was sort of trying to say. It just came out very poorly, (very, very poorly). From what I have seen this game should have been rated Teen even if there was a bit more blood because the level of violence is very low if you compare it to games such as GTA or Unreal Tournament or something like that, (especialy GTA), which are both rated Mature.

Personally, if one in five or ten monsters showed some sign of there blood/lifeforce leaving there body that would be fine. I wouldn't want to see it constantly or see gallons of blood shooting out. I think the most important death animations will come from the boss monsters and titans. I have faith that the developers will get it right.
I definately agree.

[Haay1971]

Well, I'm 35 and for me it's no problem if there isn't any blood & gore in TQ. I've played Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 to death, both in single and in multiplayer. I've also played DungeonSiege and Sacred until the end of their single player campaigns and in multiplayer.

For me the success of TQ doesn't stand or fall with some blood or gore present in the game, but the addictiveness and the desire to always move to the next room, the next chest, the next level-up, which Diablo 1 & 2 had nailed so right, while DungeonSiege and Sacred were kind of missing that.

Just a few more days and we'll see for ourselves if TQ has found the magic formula to get us deeply addicted! :-)

[Zidave]

I have much confidence it will be a good game and have a pretty good if not great sense of that quality

[DaveyJJ]

Well, I'm 35 and for me it's no problem if there isn't any blood & gore in TQ. I've played Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 to death, both in single and in multiplayer. I've also played DungeonSiege and Sacred until the end of their single player campaigns and in multiplayer.

For me the success of TQ doesn't stand or fall with some blood or gore present in the game, but the addictiveness and the desire to always move to the next room, the next chest, the next level-up, which Diablo 1 & 2 had nailed so right, while DungeonSiege and Sacred were kind of missing that.

Just a few more days and we'll see for ourselves if TQ has found the magic formula to get us deeply addicted! :-)

Beat you, I'm 43! And I agree that "blood and gore" in no way makes or breaks a game for me. The gameplay is the key for me in any game. D1 and D2 (and LoD) always made you come back for more ... even putting up with the ever so slight annoyances you found in the gameplay. If TQ plays like the Diablo series but with the improvements we've seen to date ... Iron Lore and THQ will have a huge hit on their hands. And "The Editorâ„¢" just seals the deal ... I'm trying to tell everyone I know that TQ seems to be like D2 "done right" with beautiful graphics, physics, particle systems, set in a great world of myth, with an editor to create endless new games. Everyone I show the gameplay footage to is buying the game and no one to date has said "Why isn't their blood and hacked off limbs?"

One day and 17 hours to demo ... :)

[mrtuck73]

I agree completely (32 years here)! I have been playing the demo since last Friday (got it through Amazon) and I don't miss blood and gore at all. The death animations are cool and the rag doll physics are just awesome. I actually find myself setting up enemies near the edges of cliffs just so I can knock them off the edge! Sometimes they hit near the edge and there is a little slope where their corpse rolls down and picks up momentum until it slides out of view! Also, try killing creatures on stairs and watch them tumble down to the bottom and land in a heap!

[Ankhes]

Sounds great :D Can you tell how it works on your computer and on what settings do you play? :P

[mrtuck73]

Take a look at some of the posts I have made in these forums, I don't want to clog it with multiple posts about the same subject.

[WNxOdiom]

Beat you, I'm 43! And I agree that "blood and gore" in no way makes or breaks a game for me. The gameplay is the key for me in any game. D1 and D2 (and LoD) always made you come back for more ... even putting up with the ever so slight annoyances you found in the gameplay. If TQ plays like the Diablo series but with the improvements we've seen to date ... Iron Lore and THQ will have a huge hit on their hands. And "The Editorâ„¢" just seals the deal ... I'm trying to tell everyone I know that TQ seems to be like D2 "done right" with beautiful graphics, physics, particle systems, set in a great world of myth, with an editor to create endless new games. Everyone I show the gameplay footage to is buying the game and no one to date has said "Why isn't their blood and hacked off limbs?"

One day and 17 hours to demo ... :)

Im 36 and i have to agree the gameplay and the overall addictive nature is the key, and IMO thats what made the diablo series so good. And i also agree the editor is whats going to really make this game just that much better. I did a preview for my clan mates to read and this game will be a quick member of the games we support. We have a huge D2 and sacred section but i do believe TQ will be pulling alot of them out:D

[Alkaidia]

Boy I feel young :( (16). But I admit I totally agree with the last 6 or 7 posts.

[Lestai]

This thread got intresting, i had a good laugh, its just like over at world of warcraft forums, you need to post with your lvl 60 toon, i noticed almost everyone now is posting there age as a sort of credibility to lvl up !!! :D

Age became such a factor in this thread you made Alkaidia feel like a noob, that was just pure gold.

Big hugs,
Lestai

[Alkaidia]

Age became such a factor in this thread you made Alkaidia feel like a noob, that was just pure gold.
Ouch. That hurts. :p

[Lestai]

Thats ok, facts are nobody wants to be old, so your the lucky one at least for another 10 yrs then you be just as old as us. lol :P

Big hugs,
Lestai

[-Aerows-]

LOL I don't recall posting *my* age...

I suppose I have no credibility? LOL

[DaveyJJ]

The unfortunate thing is that I'm really a 9 year old boy who happens to be trapped in the body of a 43 year old.

[Haay1971]

Heh heh, two months ago I turned 25... For the 10th time! :D

[SiCk4]

Hi guys...

I do agree with Maji on the GORE setting, already knowing that TQ is a fantasy-mithologic themed game, so gore isn't "that" necessary.

But now let's think about the REALITY aspect of the games (not only this one, but others)...

.When you hit someone with a shotgun in a FPS, what do you want to see?

a) the feeling of someone just falling down, like a stupid rock (fake shot)
b) someone, really taking a SHOTGUN shot, with a great physic sensation and not that AGRESSIVE gore on it (HL2).
c) someone, really taking a SHOTGUN shot, with a great physic sensation AND a real "bloody" feel of that shot enough to make him pay enough by blocking your way (soldier of fortune or doom3).
d) someone just EXCESSIVALY/EXAGERATELY been destroyed by a shotgun shot (quake 3 or unreal).

. Now think about hitting someone in TQ with your DAMN BIG LEGENDARY TWO-HANDED SWORD?
Will be SO fun (in the reality aspect) to us players hit that monster and see him flying away like he has received a charged Chuck Norris's RoudeHouse Kick at the face instead of a SLASH hit?

Everyone here will make a choice, regardless the choice, there must be a CHOICE! And this is what i thing the "gore" on games (HnS, FPS...) should be handle.

I'm not here to say: "put the option, or the game will sucks!", just asking for the options so everyone will enjoy the game.

Now for me, it would be much more fun to play this game with option C) activated! =D

... just a thought.
;)


[]'s
SiCk4.

[Gorkk]

Well, with visual effects for spells and elemental damage, you wouldn't see the blood anyway :p

[SiCk4]

Well, with visual effects for spells and elemental damage, you wouldn't see the blood anyway :p

That's why i mention: "DAMN BIG LEGENDARY TWO-HANDED SWORD" instead of: "ENCHANTED ROD".

* For a true melee (warfare) hardcore player there's no "spell effect" capable of substitute the fell of the slash hit of the steel and even if the sword is elemental enchanted, it will just add a fun burn/freeze/poison/eletric effect on the slash hit.
:p :p

[Alkaidia]

By the way, there is no two-handed swords. I think because they didn't really have them in that time frame. But I get your point even though I would still probably rather see option B.

[Gorkk]

By the way, there is no two-handed swords. I think because they didn't really have them in that time frame. But I get your point even though I would still probably rather see option B.
In fact there is no two-handed weapons at all from what I saw, except for the bows. I don't miss them though :)

[SiCk4]

come on guys... two handed sword was just an examle, you know what im talking about.

SLASH HIT.

When every single hit (of every kind of weapon) becames the same CRUSH-like hit, for me it´s not more FUN.

... and now i got what Maji wanted to tell us about the "gamers age". Mature/hardcore gamers will always prefer REALITY (gore) than "nice colorful effects". I personally know some really hard-hardcore gamers by the age of 12-16 (so dont misunderstand me!) =p

i´ve finished the demo 2x trying to convince myself that hit the Satyrs/Minotaurs like they all were some kind of cool-toy was nice... but i fail.

Dev´s... if it will be impossible to put the gore on the game (by financial questions), please do something about the so called "wonderful special effects". When i got hit by a skeleton mage with an ice shot and I DIDNT GOT FREEZE (like in diablo2) and vice-versa i just quit the demo.

i dont really know how the game will handle (mature/hardcore players) without the gore, but without gore and without (at least) a VERY COOL special effect for spells... things wont be so good.

I must admit, i got REALLY frustated with the gore absence and the special effects. But i must confess that TQ has a BEAUTIFUL 3D Engine and a GREAT POTENCIAL (this makes me feel even worst about why this potential wouldn´t be used to full advantage).

26 june is comming... and i still have hope.


[]´s
SiCk4.

[Alkaidia]

come on guys... two handed sword was just an examle, you know what im talking about.
Yes I know I was just pointing that out. A large axe and things like that are really the same.

But I have to say 12-16 year olds aren't mature gamers at all. If you read earlier posts in this thread you will find out that that is quite young compared to most of the poeple on this forum.

[DaveyJJ]

Mature/hardcore gamers will always prefer REALITY (gore) than "nice colorful effects".

Sorry, but that statement is ludicrous. It's purely your own opinion ... don't state that like it's a fact.

I'm a mature gamer, I've been playing games on computers since the days of a Wang punchcard machine (1976 I think). To say that mature gamers will always prefer reality to nice colourful effects is pure hyperbole and completely incorrect. If one mature gamer prefers it the other way then your assumption (remember what people say about making assumptions, btw) is incorrect ... it has been proven wrong.

I'm that mature gamer. I prefer gameplay, story, and colorful effects far more than gore. And always have/will. Want gore? Go play Doom 3 or HL2 or Resident Evil 4 (the last, IMHO, is a horribly sick, unplayable game).

TQ isn't about these things.

------------------------------

Later edit ... I hope that post didn't come across as too mean-spirited or harsh. My issue isn't with "gore" in video games, but the tone of certain posts that are arguing for "gore." We all have our opinions and are entitled to them. But when I see emphasized words like "DEMAND" and "require" and "must have" spoken as if they applied to every game it riles me up. IMHO, "action-RPG" means just that ... elements of action (which of themselves do not require violence or gore) and elements of role playing (which again, do not require of themselves, violence or gore). There are hundreds (thousands?) of video games made each year for a wide range of gamers ... find gore if you need in another game but don't state that game XYZ demands anything except what it is.

And from a developers standpoint, there are probably many valid reasons "gore" wasn't included in a specific title (not specific here to TQ). Maybe it's a ratings thing; maybe there was too much additional modeling and programming and file size or time constraints to have to render both a non-gore and a gore animation sequence; maybe the developers don't like gore just for gore's sake; etc.

The game is what it is ... yes, there are a few bugs that everyone might agree need fixing (camera angle, inventory auotmatically fitting stuff better etc), but gore isn't one of the critical ones, for this type of game. IMHO, naturally.

----------------------------

Even later edit ... reality in video games? When did that become a requirement? :) If you want reality let's do this ... buy a copy of Call of Duty 2. Start to play. Get your character shot and die. Then delete the game from your machine and toss it out because, remember now, reality means you're dead and can't ever play again. Right? Silly arguement, this whole "reality in video games thing." Game = fun = suspending your reality in many cases.

[ruubster]

I'll second that!

I also have played the demo and I did'nt found myself dissapointing about the no-gore... the figthing itself, the raggdoll physics it worked just great :) and I dont need gore, if its there its nice to have but if it isnt I dont care :)

and just for the record; I also call myself a 'mature-gamer' I am turning 18 in two weeks :)

[Maji]

say that after you have repeated it a few times or played longer wait and see you will notice, and think how much better it could been if it was included, he is correct to think we do like realism we dont want to know were playing a game we want to be the character in the game so realism is key this raggy doll is only a ok thing it isnt a subsitute for gore and proper elemental effects, both included would made this a equal to diablo2 possibility without this gonna flop, I certainly wont be promoting it, I promoted diablo2 like mad im not promoting this way it is currently, word of mouth is powerful among hardcore gamers specially if pro gamers...

[Roland]

IMO

There does need to be a "BLOOD" option...the word Option is the key.

A slider or numerical value to increase or decrease the amount/lvl

Or just a simple toggle On/Off

I personally would like this option.

Older gamer...not sure about the mature part though lol

Regards,

Roland :cool:

[SiCk4]

Sorry, but that statement is ludicrous. It's purely your own opinion ... don't state that like it's a fact.

If you really have paid some attention on my words you could understand what i said.

But i can repeat no problem:

HnS MATURE gamers = hardcore/pro (not the age... omg.)

Im 24 and again, i DO KNOW some kids (12-16) that play in a hardcore/pro level like me(that is what i'm talking about).

And btw, our posts isn't what we thing... or better, OUR OPINION!?

In my opinion HARDCORE/PRO gamers DO prefer gore reality than "nice colorful effects" and will prefer, even better, BOTH TOGETHER.

If your opinion is different than mine, i will just respect that. ;)


[]'s
SiCk4.

[SiCk4]

DaveyJJ, your argue with CoH2 was so imature that i think it doesnt need any reply.

... and by the way wich HnS game did you enjoyed the must? And why?


[]'s
SiCk4.

[Gorkk]

say that after you have repeated it a few times or played longer wait and see you will notice, and think how much better it could been if it was included, he is correct to think we do like realism we dont want to know were playing a game we want to be the character in the game so realism is key this raggy doll is only a ok thing it isnt a subsitute for gore and proper elemental effects, both included would made this a equal to diablo2 possibility without this gonna flop, I certainly wont be promoting it, I promoted diablo2 like mad im not promoting this way it is currently, word of mouth is powerful among hardcore gamers specially if pro gamers...
Well, I personaly have played it alot (can't say more because of a NDA for later in May), and I truely don't miss gore at all, really. Then again, I'm not a PRO gamer (I don't get money for it), but depending on your definition of HardCore gamer, I think I can be considered as one (spending regularly 14h or more straight playing, like with Titan Quest playing straight 14 or 15h a day, only stopping to quickly eat and sleep, as well as maintaining and upgrading my site). When I get a new game, my friends usualy don't see me at all for at least a week, 'cause I do nothing else than play the game (well, in a month i'll no longer be able to do so, 'cause I'll have work on daytime, as i graduate my MBA equivalent this year).

I truely really don't see the relation between gore in a game like TQ and the hardcore gamers though. Those who would really noticed the lack of it would be more, imho, the casual player (as when you get to play a lot, you don't notice those effects anymore, like in Diablo), and the gore addicts (people for whom a game is not good with no gore anyway). Gore addicts should go buy some gore specifics games, they're meant for this.

Reality? who said a game should be realistic? How could it be when featuring magic, healing potions, and so on?

[SiCk4]

... and I truely don't miss gore at all, really.

That's ok dude, its your opinion. That's why we're asking an OPTION for gore.


Gore addicts should go buy some gore specifics games, they're meant for this.

Think in gore here as just adding more REALISM to the game. You talk like we're just a bunch of psycs blood-suckers. Rethink your arguments.


Reality? who said a game should be realistic?

And who STATED that it shouldn't be realistic? You!?


Again, you guys that are defending the "no gore" for TQ. We can respect you, since you show some respect for us.

edit: Nowadays it's so hard to understand the meaning of the word OPTION.


[]'s
SiCk4

[Roland]

What's so hard or wrong with having the "Option" to turn it on or leave it off?

BTW...in my opinion the "Blood" as used in say Diablo/2 does not equal the term "gore" ;)

But that's just me.

I say give us the players the option, at least in SP mode.

If there's an option, then there's nothing to argue about.

:cool:

[DaveyJJ]

Roland, I don't think anything's wrong with the option of gore and being able to turn it on/off. But as a community we all need to be more polite about this issue (not use terms like "DEMAND" and "must have") and also understand that it's not going to happen with the launch version on June 26.

Unless Iron Lore have already programmed "gorey death animations" for every model in the game, the "gore option" several months away, I'd wager.

My only thing is that it won't make the game "better" in any way, but I base my ratings of games on gameplay first and visual second.

To each his own I suppose. :) And I agree that the option would solve the issue to everyone's satisfaction.

But if we have the option will it be on a personal machine level in a multiplayer, or should it be the host's decision? ;) I'd prefer the later of course.

[Roland]

I agree DaveyJJ :)

No demanding here, I'll be buying the game the day it comes out. Just my opinion. Don't care much for gorey deaths and such...but I like a bit o' blood when I hit my enemy with a weapon :)

But not a game breaker by no means for me heh

Regards,

[Gorkk]

DaveyJJ >> add to that that the silly strict rating in the US would remove the Teen rating of the game with a gore option, even disabled by default. Heck, they changed the rating of some games after release when an unofficial patch added nude option (only removing clothes, you add only forms, but no actual details). Ascaron had to produce a no gore version specificaly for the US to get the Teen rating.

Would it be bad that TQ lose the Teen rating in the US? Don't know, but it's likely THQ and Iron Lore wouldn't like that, as the game seems already not that popular in the US (compared to Europe) due to the European and Asian mythology settings.

So, sure, an option to have gorey effects would be cool, sure enough. Keeping on requiring one, saying that the game is half-finished without it is plain wrong. A poll with several choices ("yes, I'd definitely want that option", "Why not", "Absolutely not, it'd ruin the game") would be a much better way to give the message to THQ, and show them eventually how many gamers would really want that in game compared to the potential lost sales they'd have with the Teen rating in the US ('cause it's almost sure it would be removed if they had a gore option that would not be completely disabled in a US specific version - an a US specific version would mean more costs).

[SiCk4]

So, sure, an option to have gorey effects would be cool, sure enough. Keeping on requiring one, saying that the game is half-finished without it is plain wrong. A poll with several choices ("yes, I'd definitely want that option", "Why not", "Absolutely not, it'd ruin the game") would be a much better way to give the message to THQ, and show them eventually how many gamers would really want that in game compared to the potential lost sales they'd have with the Teen rating in the US ('cause it's almost sure it would be removed if they had a gore option that would not be completely disabled in a US specific version - an a US specific version would mean more costs).

Completely agreed.
I already asked for a POLL.


[]'s
SiCk4

[Arangar]

Then add the winning choice "I would like the option, but i wont miss it" too.

[SiCk4]

People, HERE (http://www.titanquest.net/questions-answers/284-gore-option-titan-quest.html) comes the pool.

VOTE!


[]'s
SiCk4