Harbinger build

[GawainBS]

Hello

First of all: Hello.
I'm pretty new to TQ-IT. I'm trying to get a dual-wielding Harbinger started, but I have no idea which skills/builds work well together. I'm going to take this character through all the difficulties, so she would have to be able to take some damage. (Or deal loads of it.;))
Can you guys recommend some builds and tactics? On which skills/attributes schould I focus?

Thanks in advance!

[Whisk33]

http://www.titanquest.net/forums/gameplay/16378-tips-advice-newbies.html?highlight=HArbinger

http://www.titanquest.net/forums/warfare/13839-harbinger-warrior-ultimate-build.html

[GawainBS]

I don't get what's so great about Trance of Wrath. I'd say the other two are a lot more useful. Am I missing something?

[Whisk33]

ToW reduces the enemies resistances. TO EVERYTHING including normal dmg
So think of it as an aura that gives you +40% total dmg
(though really reducing their resistance by 40% deals more dmg than increasing your dmg by 40%)


Whats that great about 14 health per second when you don't have much +%health regen gear?


Whats that great about 3-10%ACtH. 3% is really really low. And reflection? Monsters have a horrbile dmg/health ratio. While most toons can easily oneshot themselves. Monsters can not. Not even close.

Depending on what you are building for ToW can be enormous.

[GawainBS]

Oh, if you put it that way... :) Doesn't the constant mana drain combined with the mana from onslaught be a problem?

[Whisk33]

Spectral Matter
Phantoms Bane
Insert Energy leech item


The thing that sucks is that there isn't a %attack converted to energy. So you can only leech off people who have energy and you can't really do that if you are one shotting them. What that means is that you will been to enjoy the taste of blue pots.

Though especially for a harbinger ToC could prove necessary for the 18%dmg absorbtion alone. Though I hold with the %ACtH school, so the reduced resistances not only help me deal more dmg which gives me more to leech from, but it also lowers their life leech resistance which means I get more of what I should leech returned to me.

[The Rock-man]

ToW reduces the enemies resistances. TO EVERYTHING including normal dmg
So think of it as an aura that gives you +40% total dmg
(though really reducing their resistance by 40% deals more dmg than increasing your dmg by 40%)


Not totally true if monster has 0 resistance it has no effect as ToW works like this (Mobs base resist)*(1-TOW%)=final resist. As most mobs have 0 physical resist it wont help there, in post normal it good for boosting all other damage types.

[GawainBS]

So the 40% reduced resistance will be of more use than 18% orso extra damage resistance?

[Whisk33]

in post normal it good for boosting all other damage types.
You really need to be in Legendary before ToW can really shine. Below legendary the 14health per second really makes a difference and you should definately stick with ToC. Not to mention how high ToW is on the Mastery Tree. Monsters have some physical resistance in Legendary yes?


So the 40% reduced resistance will be of more use than 18% orso extra damage resistance?
It isn't Damage resistance which only effects physical damage

It is Damage Absorbtion which effects all types of damage

I can't tell you how to play the game. My character relies HEAVILY on %attack converted to health. If I didnt use my Sapros and ToW I would die too often. I rely on leech health off every strike I make.

[GawainBS]

It's just that I'm not familiar at all with the game mathematics. :)

[Whisk33]

Best way to play the game is to try it out and see what you like.
I was playing the swap and see game with my Aphordite's Favor Ammy and a Mermydons Pendent (spelling?!). I had higher DPS with The Pendent but the Favor helped my other skills out and I was killing fast with that...

See what you like. Stick with ToC for a while and then brag some gold visit a mystic and see if ToW doesn't treat you better.

[GawainBS]

I was planning on doing that, since ToC is lower tier. :)

[dom625]

Don't forget the skill disruption offered by Trance of Wrath. That comes in handy for preventing monsters from using their skills.

Also don't totally disregard Trance of Empathy. The damage reflection is nice and the attack damage converted to helath is great as well.

My harbinger uses Trance of Wrath and has used it since it was available. I love it--it makes her leech more effective. My diviner uses ToE with nice results as well.

[Whisk33]

Also don't totally disregard Trance of Empathy. The damage reflection is nice
With 16/12 in ToE it took a long time for the skele's infront of the Gorgon queens to kill themselves. I would say some 40seconds. 40 seconds to kill someone is just way too long in my book.

I can not think of two times where that could possibly be usefull. the %attack converted to health isn't as good as the Dmg Absorbtion and Health/Energy regens from ToC

ToC always good
ToW Sometimes the Best
ToE never good
ToE just doesnt have enough %ACtH

[therani]

With 16/12 in ToE it took a long time for the skele's infront of the Gorgon queens to kill themselves. I would say some 40seconds. 40 seconds to kill someone is just way too long in my book.

I can not think of two times where that could possibly be usefull. the %attack converted to health isn't as good as the Dmg Absorbtion and Health/Energy regens from ToC

ToC always good
ToW Sometimes the Best
ToE never good
ToE just doesnt have enough %ACtH

ToE works nicely with pets. While they're busy killing the enemy, the enemy is also hastening its own demise as it fights back. If you just stand there yourself with ToE running and wait for stuff to suicide itself to death, of course it's going to take a while. Especially if enemies are hitting you with an attack they themselves highly resist (like skeletons attacking with piercing damage).

[dom625]

I agree with the Rani. You don't just stand there waiting for ToE to kill everything--that's like waiting for the electrical burn from ToW to kill everything. ToE is nice because while *you* are damaging the monsters, they are also damaging themselves by attacking you.

[Whisk33]

The damage is negligible. It does not assist in killing.
It still requires the same amount of attacks rendering ToE useless except for the %ACtH. The damage inflicted byToE even at max is too small to matter.
I love the fact that you brought up the Electric burn from ToW.
No one talks about ToW as good becuase its tiny electircal burn that it grants.
because it doesnt help you kill anything faster!

[dom625]

But the added electrical burn from ToW is an added extra, something thrown in for kicks and giggles. Sure, it doesn't do much in the long run, but it's nice to have that bonus.

As for ToE, I don't find 60% (at max level) damage reflection at all low. Even when the enemies don't actually hit you, because of your DA, they still take damage from their attempt. And it works on archers as well. I find it to be useful.

Granted, I never really played around with ToC that much. I can get health/mana regeneration (Can you tell that I played Diablo for years? It will always be mana to me!) from gear and relics and I prefer to spend 12 skill points in a more offensive skill.

Let's agree to disagree on this point. :D

[GawainBS]

Thanks for the replies. Can someone please explain me the different damage types? I now understand the way piercing damage works, but I'm still confused about Acth% and Life Leech and Energy Leech and Vitality Damage... If that's explained in the manual, I've missed it.

Thanks in advance.

[Poinas]

ToW reduces the enemies resistances. TO EVERYTHING including normal dmg
So think of it as an aura that gives you +40% total dmg
(though really reducing their resistance by 40% deals more dmg than increasing your dmg by 40%)


Well, most monsters have 30% physical damage resistance in legendary, if I remember correctly.

So with x amount of damage is done, you do x-x*0,3=0,7x damage.
With ToW, you do x-x*(0,3-0,3*0,4)=0,82x.

That's about 17% increase.

If a resistance is 80%, you do 0,2x damage with out ToW, and 0,58x with ToW.

[The Rock-man]

Well, most monsters have 30% physical damage resistance in legendary, if I remember correctly.
SNIP

Wrong the monsters have the SAME amount of physical resistance in legendary as in normal. Only the gear they are wearing will change things, in fact the only monster worth thinking about is the dactyls with a measly 10% damage resist (and maybe the bosses but i dont think they have). Maybe traps have some but they are so weak to start with.
As for armor thats not effected by ToW. So physical damage wise your going from 90% to 94% and only for 1 monster that you might not even meet in the whole game it just not worth it for this its for the other resistances and the skill disruption.

[Poinas]

Wrong the monsters have the SAME amount of physical resistance in legendary as in normal.

Very well then. I wonder where I got such silly ideas in my head. ToW doesn't look so hot then.

[The Rock-man]

The reason is almost all of the other resist get boosted by 30% the only damage resist that isn't is physical.

[dom625]

Thanks for the replies. Can someone please explain me the different damage types? I now understand the way piercing damage works, but I'm still confused about Acth% and Life Leech and Energy Leech and Vitality Damage... If that's explained in the manual, I've missed it.

Thanks in advance.

Life and energy leech work in the same manner. If you have a sword that gives 60 life leech over three seconds, then whenever you hit a monster, you will leech 20 life from it per second for three seconds, assuming that they are not resistant to life leech (which would lower your leech rate) and that they do not die after the first hit (you cannot leech from a dead monster). Energy leech follows the same rules, but in order to leech energy from a monster, they have to *have* energy to begin with--you cannot leech energy from a monster that has none. Again, they may have resistances to it.

Attack damage converted to health means that you leech back a portion of the damage you inflict on monsters. Say you have 15% ACtH and you hit a monster for 100 damage; you will leech 15 health back, assuming that the monster is not resistant. This is where ToW comes in handy; enemy resistances are lowered, so your leeching skills are more effective and you can leech more life.

Vitality damage is simply another damage type. From what I've read, it's a nice one to have because fewer monsters have resistances to it than to other damage types. However, certain monsters are highly resistant; vitality is related to life so the undead are unaffected--again, ToW can help with this.

[Whisk33]

Thanks for the replies. Can someone please explain me the different damage types? I now understand the way piercing damage works, but I'm still confused about Acth% and Life Leech and Energy Leech and Vitality Damage... If that's explained in the manual, I've missed it.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spoilers/16010-game-mechanics.html