Attack damage converted to health

[CWO109]

seems kinda nebulous, but how does this work? Is it of any type of damage you deal, or just what comes from your weapon. In D2, life leech was very important, but I'm confused as to how this is different than TQ's life leech.

[Viperace]

For lifeleech, look for the following mod:

10% Attack damage% converted to health


So, if you deal 100 damage, you immediately leech 10 HP.
You can stack the above mod with other items/relic/charms etc. .. For example, you have a weapon that gives
20% Attack damage converted to health

A ring that gives
10% Attack damage converted to health

Now, if you deal 100 damage, you immediately leech 30 HP.


Usually physical weapons (melee weapon or bow) are able to leech via a use of skill or a normal attack; as long as your hit 'connect'.

Not sure bout staff, maybe they can leech too.

[Viperace]

I want to add another thing. The effect of
1) X% Attack damage% converted to health

is different from

2) M life leech for N seconds

Both have the same effect, giving you HP while you damage your enemy. In game terms, they are different. Effect 1) is instant, while 2) is a Damage over time effect.

You will usually see mod like
+30% life leech.

Such mod only applies to effect 2), life leech. So you leech 1.30M HP in N seconds

Feel free to correct me ;)

[dom625]

Attack damage converted to health is the best thing that I've seen in a long time. My harbinger has a sword with +15% ADCH and she rarely swills a potion. It's great to sneak in (Phantom Strike), smack six enemies at once (Dream Stealer), and immediately return to full health. She's cruising through epic with few problems so far.

[BelgarathMTH]

I wonder whether %dmg to health isn't kind of overpowered.

I'm currently taking a staff-wielding Prophet through Epic Greece. By means of my staff and a Soul Shiver artifact, I have 30% damge to health. I haven't needed a potion in ages. I'm through the Parnassus Caves, and owning everything. So far, I very rarely need to cast my only spell, Temporal Rift.

[CWO109]

does it work on the undead?

[dom625]

You can use attack damage to health on anything. I leech from undead, constructs, anything that I hit (except the fire/ice/arrow traps). I'm surprised that it works on undead though, since they tend to be immune to vitality damage.

[painkilla]

it doesnt work on undead an machines so there must be a kind of resistence for it. Vitality damage? Strange because the convertion is pure client/player sided and doesnt have anything to do with the enemy your facing but only the damage you deal i think

So the deathchill aura with necrosis helps in getting more life from %dmg converted to health because there vitality res. is lower?

[asdf1234]

Probably Nercosis or Trance of Wrath is on if you are getting X converted to health from undead. I am wondering if you have ToW on and 15% converted to health item, will you get more than 15%?

[Warmonger Smurf]

I'm going to tentatively say yes. My Templar in early Legendary seems to soak up more life (30% ADCtH with Spinebreaker and Soul Shiver) with ToW on. More importantly, ToW is vital to soaking life from the undead and constructs.

[Whisk33]

%attack convert to health is not a dmg type. It does not inflict any dmg on an enemy and that is why IT DOES WORK on undead. It simply converts a percentage of the dmg that you inflict.

Life leech is a vitality dmg type that also gives you health. Life leech is resisted by vitality resistance/life leech resistance.

The only thing I would check Viper is that I thought I remember people saying that +%life leech worked on %attack converted to health...
But, I really dont know...

[apocalypse80]

To leech more than 15% when you have an item with 15% converted to health , you'll need to push the opponent's resistance to the negatives.

ToW can NOT (http://www.titanquest.net/forums/immortal-throne-spoilers/15481-resistances-question.html?highlight=resistances) do that.
What it can do is reduce the 100% resistance that some things (like the undead) have , so you can actually leech some life from them.
Let me repeat ; ToW will NEVER push an opponent's resistance to the negatives.

Necrosis can do it.
And it does work like a dream with dmg converted to health items.

[fm2055]

%attack convert to health is not a dmg type. It does not inflict any dmg on an enemy and that is why IT DOES WORK on undead

I seriously doubt; the effect of sapros'd leech and unsapros'd leech on Hades is simply too dramatic (I leech around 1/20 of my HP bar unsaprosd, vs 2/3 of the bar sapros'd) to be accounted for by statistical variation alone. And that means HP conversion is related to some form of damage type, no matter what it is.

[Poinas]

I seriously doubt; the effect of sapros'd leech and unsapros'd leech on Hades is simply too dramatic (I leech around 1/20 of my HP bar unsaprosd, vs 2/3 of the bar sapros'd) to be accounted for by statistical variation alone. And that means HP conversion is related to some form of damage type, no matter what it is.

Sapros dramatically lowers the resistance of Hades, so you can convert more damage to health. Or it lowers the physical resitance so you edeal more dmage and therefroe gain more dmage to be conveted into healt. Or both I canät ecide now.

[Warmonger Smurf]

Y'know, from a purely objective point of view, I'm inclined to agree with you, Whisk... but with empirical data, I was simply not able to leech life from the undead with %damage converted in Epic. I looked carefully at the numbers before and after I activated ToW, and it went from 0 to not-quite-full potential.

[The Rock-man]

There is a resistance for it guys, and it not vit resist.

[asdf1234]

To leech more than 15% when you have an item with 15% converted to health , you'll need to push the opponent's resistance to the negatives.

ToW can NOT (http://www.titanquest.net/forums/immortal-throne-spoilers/15481-resistances-question.html?highlight=resistances) do that.
What it can do is reduce the 100% resistance that some things (like the undead) have , so you can actually leech some life from them.
Let me repeat ; ToW will NEVER push an opponent's resistance to the negatives.

Necrosis can do it.
And it does work like a dream with dmg converted to health items.

Good post. The link is worth checking out.

[BelgarathMTH]

In Epic, I find that I DO get %attack to health against the undead, but it is MUCH less than against 'living' creatures. I use TOWrath. I think that my experience confirms what Apocalypse has said.

[Whisk33]

I know that its crazy out dated, and 50% of the time it isnt accurate any more but http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spoilers/1159-knowledge.html#post13156

Vitality Damage, Life Leech, % Damage Converted to Health, and % Life Lost can be a bit confusing. First off, there is resistance to Vitality damage, then there is resistance to Life Leech damage, even though only one display shows up on your character screen. Additionally, Undead tend to be immune to all forms of Vitality Damage, Leech, AND % Life Lost effects (Doom Horn, Take Down, etc), and many bosses are resistant to the effects.

The +% Life Leech modifier, as with other similar % based modifiers ONLY works if you ALREADY have Life Leech - yes, it is possible to get +% Life Leech and have no Life Leech damage over time. Note that this modifier DOES work on % Damage converted to health! It does NOT work on % Life Lost (Plague, Take Down, etc).
The % Damage converted to health mod takes all forms of 'flat' damage into account for the health conversion, but it does not include any form of damage over time.

Vitality damage is NOT boosted by Intelligence. And to be clear, ONLY Elemental (Fire, Cold, Lightning, in any form) is boosted by Intelligence. The main benefit to Vitality damage is that very few types of creatures (besides Undead of course) have any resistance to it at all.

Now I will admit that not even Phil himself completly understood this topic of discussion when writing this,(and really nothing definate can be said until tested) But it still says that %dmg converted to health takes all forms of flat damage into account for health conversion. Note that it involves that amount of dmg that you are dealing (regardless of whether it is physical and/or pierce etc since phil wasn't sure about that) and it takes that Damage that you deal and converts a percentage of it back to you. As far as I know there is NO resistance to attack converted to health (from now on I am calling that ACtH) aside from maybe damage absorbtion... indirectly of course.

For those of you use Sapros and ToW, please think about the effects of reducing all resistance. You are reducing All your resistances. Fire,cold, light,psn, pierce, PHYSICAL, vitality, stun, energy, and Nathan Lane dmg also! and since both these items are absolute numbers it will dramtically increase your dmg against any enemy. so regardless of which school of thought is correct you should be recovering more health.
IF I was wrong and it is indeed impossible to have ACtH against undead due to their vitality resistance then the way to test it would be this. Use a character that deals NO vitality dmg or life leech or %reduction to enemy health. Then hit a zombie or other vitality resistant enemy. Record health regained. Repeat a bunch of times (+20) average the numbers. Now reduce ONLY his vitality resistance. and see if you recover more health. Tip. A bow might be the easiest way of doing this, but make sure you get rid of things like gouge scattershot and volley before hand. Dont forget to use our heads here.

[apocalypse80]

One of my favorite targets when it comes to testing is the statue of apollo , yes the one from old typhon.
Which of course is a construct.

Using scepter of thanatos I don't leech a single hp of life back.
Nothing , 0 hp.

Using sapros I still don't leech all that much , but I do get a few hundred hp per hit.
Which is an increase of infinite %.

Which makes me think there's definitely a resistance.
Furthermore I know I barely leech any life from skeletons in particular , even with sapros.

[Whisk33]

What are the stats of the statue? resistance wise?
And I assume you are indeed damaging it... This is very interesting, and quite possibly incredible annoying...
If it is indeed vitality resistance then all bosses would be impossible(very difficult) to leech from also correct? I usually get a good amount of health from Big t still though... any ideas on that?

[apocalypse80]

As far as I see , despite being listed under the same name in IT , life leech and vitality resistance are still 2 very different things.
Experiments and the editor both agree on that.

Bosses get vitality , undead and constructs also get life leech.
Plus there is a hidden extra monster resistance to %health effects , one that doesn't get affected by necrosis.
Leeching from bosses works fine , not sure if the constructs and undead among them are resistant.

[Whisk33]

For those of you who are just now joining us, read this post!
This is what I have come to think of how these health related attacks work... Test em and correct em maybe. I'll try and be a specific as possible. Any suggestions are welcomed. I have updated this everytime something has been tested and proven. This is accurate.

P1
Life leech is a life leech dmg type over time. It is resisted by life leech resistance. It is increased by +%life leech. This is true for both heros(our toons) and enemies. The amount of dmg that is inflicted on your enemy gets returned back to you as health.

P2
Vitality dmg is a vitality dmg type. It is not increased by any character stat(possibly increased by intellegence). It is resisted by vitality resistance. It is increased by +%vitality dmg. This is true for both heros(our toons) and enemies.

P3
##% reduction of health is a vitality dmg type. It takes the total current health (like the static charge skill from the sorc in D2) value, determines the %reduction and inflicts that number. The number is then resisted by vitality resistances and for enemies there is also an additional resistance to specifically %reduction of health attacks. This is why this dmg has little to no effect on bosses. When using items that reduce resistances all resistances (including the hidden %health are lowered) This dmg can NOT be increase by +%vitality dmg.


P4
% of Attack converted to health. This stat will take the "flat" dmg that you inflict (physical, pierce, fire, cold, lighting, vitality) (no dots). Once that dmg has been resisted by the armor and resistance of the enemy is it totaled, multiplied by the %conversion to health and then before this health is granted to you it is reduced by the life leech resistance of the enemy. The amount of health recovered can NOT be directly increased by +%life leech, but indirectly the amount CAN be increased by lowering the -life leech resistance of the enemy.

[The Rock-man]

P1
Life leech is vitality dmg over time. It is resisted by life leech resistance and vitality resistance. It is increased by +%life leech and +%vitality dmg. This is true for both heros(our toons) and enemies.

P2
Vitality dmg is a dmg type. It is not increased by any character stat. It is resisted by life leech resistance and vitality resistance. It is increased by +%life leech and +%vitality dmg. This is true for both heros(our toons) and enemies.

P3
25% reduction of health is a vitality dmg type. It takes the total possible health (the max health not the current health. Current health would be like the static charge skill from the sorc in D2) value, determines the %reduction and inflicts that number. The number is then resisted by life leech and vitality resistances. This can be increase by +%life leech and +%vitality dmg. This is true for both heros(our toons) and enemies.

P4
% of Attack converted to health. This magical stat will take the "flat" dmg that you inflict (physical, pierce, fire, cold, lighting, vitality) (no dots) and converts a percentage of that value to health. Before this health is granted to you it is reduced by the life leech and vitality resistance of the enemy. The amount of health recovered can be increased by +%life leech and +%vitality dmg.

#1 Wrong Life leach is it own damage type, and as far as i know is only resisted by leach resistance. Edit i thought it was clear that +% Vit damage doesnt effect this, from the first 8 words.

#2 Wrong Vit damage is not the same as life leach damage +% life leach dont effect it.

The secondly tab info on resist lumps these together giving false info, and don't forget that if your thinking about the skill "life drain" thats vit damage and % damage converted to health.

#3 as far as i know that is correct.

#4 As far as i know this is correct.

Edit part 2 : This is general stuff that i have noticed over the past few weeks, not tested throughly just stuff the I notice from using different gear and some testing (it's hard work).

[Whisk33]

But here is my beef. I thought I remembered them "FIXING" the secondary display so that life leech resistance WOULD BE lumped together with vitality resistance. Of course this means I need to do a lot of searching to find out if it was actually said...

P.S have you specifically tested these situations within the past month?

if not maybe are man Apocalypse will want to step up to the plate again and throw down some facts that we can all ponder on?

P.P.S Rockman you left many open ends in your fixings of my paragraphs. i.e in #1 you said life leech is it's own dmg and resisted by life leech only. BUT you didn't say that it was not boosted by +%vitality dmg. Was this an error or intentional. Edit your above post accordingly and I will correct my previous paragraphs. woot woot 950 posts...

[apocalypse80]

#1 + #2

Vitality and life leech are 2 completely different damage types.
You can leech just fine from an opponent with over 100% vitality resistance with either life leech or %dmg to health.
As different damage types , they get separate resistances and separate modifiers.

Vitality comes as ;
vitality dmg (no duration)
Vitality decay (DoT)

Life leech comes as ;
%dmg converted to health (no duration)
Life leech (duration)

You didn't see that coming , did you?

#3

%health is vitality damage and it reduces the CURRENT life of the target by a %.
As far as the characters are concerned , vitality resistance is the one that applies.
Monsters apparently get *2* separate resistances to it ; the normal vitality one and a second , specific against %health.

Which explains why necrosis amplifies flat vitality but still doesn't allow %health attacks to work on bosses.
Total resistance debuffs do.

#4

The life you leech is proportional to the damage you actually do to the opponent as far as I can see.
All damage types are calculated , as long as they actually work on the target.
Only life leech resistance matters.
I'm not sure if +%life leech applies , +%vitality really shouldn't.

This part I'm not entirely sure about (aka not enough data) , apart from the part that vitality resistance doesn't matter.

[Whisk33]

Life leech comes as ;
%dmg converted to health (no duration)
Life leech (duration)

You didn't see that coming , did you?

Answer: No. I didnt

Ok question then. Lets say I do 1000 flat physical boring dmg. I have 7%attack converted to health also. Nothing else. Now when I attack the enemy my 7% attack converted to health works as a pierce conversion only for a life leech dmg type?!?!?

If thats true, I am really confused on what they actually meant to do with this whole thing... I guess this is where two people working on different projects come together and go... opps.
Paragraphs are edited.

give my paragraphs another look over now that I have edited them. If they are correct then I'll post it to Phillip with of course honor where it is due.

[apocalypse80]

%dmg converted to health and %current health effects are the odd ones.

The %dmg converted to health effect is listed as "life leech" , but it doesn't appear to do any damage itself.
You just get back whatever percentage of your actual (not listed) damage back as health.
And while it falls under life leech resistance , it gets no benefit from +%life leech.

The other version of life leech (x life leech over y seconds) does damage and heals you by an equal amount.
This one is modified by +%life leech.

Similarly , %health is vitality damage and it does nothing to things with a 100% vitality resistance.
But it gets no benefit from +%vitality dmg modifiers.

As for your original paragraphs , if you submit it be sure to emphasize that vitality resistance (like that from demon blood relics) and life leech resistance (it's everywhere) are NOT the same thing.
The char sheet can say whatever it wants.

[Whisk33]

The %dmg converted to health effect is listed as "life leech" , but it doesn't appear to do any damage itself.
You just get back whatever percentage of your actual (not listed) damage back as health.
And while it falls under life leech resistance , it gets no benefit from +%life leech.


Ok I corrected the parts about being able to increase those two things

Here is my question though and I feel as if it is important. If you are doing only physical dmg and have 10% converted to health. what happens when you attack a monster with
A) 100% physical resists
B) 100% life leech resistance
C) 50% physical 50%life leech.

This is important becuase are we getting double resisted? i.e. that answer to both A) and B) would be 0 life returned and then C) would be dmg*.5*.5*.1=health returned...
Does %attack converted to health act as a lifeleech conversion ratio? and if it does when is it applied. This could make a thorny maul incredibly unimpressive (well aside from the fact that pierce dmg is still really easy to increase)

[apocalypse80]

A) No damage and no life leech
B) No life leech
C) You get 5% of the actual damage you do to it back as health.
That actual damage will be whatever gets past the target's physical resistance and armor (perhaps shield).

[The Rock-man]

Yep apoca is correct in 3 cases
for #3 50% physical resist & 50% leech resistance that means you receive 2.5% of you base DPS. in this case 2.5% or 25 heath per hit with 1K DPH weapon.

And % damage converted to health works like this, 100% of your dph is applied to mob then mobs resists & armor reduces this to damage dealt. Then %dth conversion factor is applied to damage dealt to find out how much health you can get, and then life leach resist is applied to get actual health regenerated.

[Whisk33]

C) You get 5% of the actual damage you do to it back as health.
That actual damage will be whatever gets past the target's physical resistance and armor (perhaps shield).
Did you check that, because that doesn't make sense. That would mean it would only be going through one of the resistances and either A or B would have to result in a percentage of health recovered. It should be dmg*.5*.5*.1 and result in only 2.5%of the actual damage that you do to be returned as health. If you are getting .5 it is skipping one of the resists. Why and which ones...
Unless when both are present it only uses one or only uses the greater of the two?...
What happens with
D) 30%dmg resist and 70%life leech
E) 70%dmg resist and 30%life leech

[Whisk33]

@Rock
Where did you get 6 from? 2.5% of 1000 is 25. For our purposes ignore DPS and lets all assume we are working on idividual hits to prevent confusion. What you said makes sense though. That the dmg you deal is filtered through the aplicapble resistance against that type and then convert by the %of conversion and then filtered through their life leech once again to be returned to you. I'll go change my paragrahs again...

Is it confirmed that all flat dmg is used to convert dmg to health. Fire cold, lighting included.

[The Rock-man]

Whisk33 ^^ read my post that just above i explained it all there.
I assume both D) and E) are resistance values and your using a 10% life steal weapon.
D) This is 70% of base "DPH" dealt this can be classed as "actual damage" and 10% of this is converted to health giving a chance to steal 7% of your DPH, this is then reduced by 70% giving 2.1% of base DPH life gained

E) You damage is less at 30% and % of life stolen is 10%*70%=7% giving the same amount of life gained 2.1% of base damage.

NOTE "actual damage" as used by apocalypse80 is the damage inflected on the mob IE damage after Phys/Pierce/Elemental etc resist have been accounted for.

Edit: Corrected above post Wisk you edited the above while i was typeing this.

[apocalypse80]

NOTE "actual damage" as used by apocalypse80 is the damage inflected on the mob IE damage after Phys/Pierce/Elemental etc resist have been accounted for.

Yep.
Technically , the physical damage that will get through to the enemy is reduced by physical resistance , armor and shield.
So I used the term "actual damage" to include it all , because (obviously) you will do less than half your listed damage to a target of 50% physical resistance.

The life leech percentage however is only affected by the life leech resistance , so it will become 10%*(1-50%) = 5%.

2.5% of your listed damage is the best case scenario , assuming the target has no other defense besides resistances.
But nothing has a 0 armor rating , even if they appear naked.

[Lillis]

The %dmg converted to health effect is listed as "life leech" , but it doesn't appear to do any damage itself.
You just get back whatever percentage of your actual (not listed) damage back as health.
And while it falls under life leech resistance , it gets no benefit from +%life leech.

Wow, this struck me as quite the shock; I've always been under the impression that "+%Life Leech" (found on Sapros, Band of Souls, and Agamemnon's Death Mask, among other things) actually did modify the amount of leech that comes from "%AttackDamage>HP". Sure, Sapros lowers all resists, but I could've sworn that I got an increase with this modifier on the same kind of enemies, on the same difficulty, without Sapros, Necrosis, or any other lowering effect.

Oh, well...

[Balshar]

That was my understanding too...and that's why they are OFTEN paired on items...

[apocalypse80]

Actually it seems to me that +%life leech is on almost every item with %dmg converted to health.
So perhaps it was intended to work that way , I don't know.

What I do know is that it definitely doesn't work that way , not in my game.
Ersichthyon's (sp?) hunger alone or combined with a band of souls (+75% life leech) makes absolutely no difference.
I still leech 200 health out of a 1600 dmg hit (1600 dmg before armor).

[Lillis]

I'm also thinking these mods were definately meant to work together, especially since there were a lot of the added weapons in IT that came with them paired (Bladestring, Meerkwood Bow, Gauntlet of the Necrolord, I'll stop or else the list will go on forever ;)).
Is this hardcoded in the game or would it be possible to change it through a mod?

[Whisk33]

I'l fairly certian that they (vitality and life leech) were meant to be one dmg type. Back in the day... 1.15 I think life leech and vitality resistance WERE NOT sumed together on the secondary resistance screen. *And this was an error because they were are the same thing and that is why they corrected the values by summing them* *astreiks note currently incorrect information*.
I thought I remembered devs saying that %AtH items were increased by +%lifeleech. Of the betrayer gives that stuff doesn't. It's a shame becuase it could have been really easily abused.

[The Rock-man]

Life Leach and vitality where NEVER the same thing, %AtH and +%lifeleech may stack with each other.

[apocalypse80]

Life Leach and vitality where NEVER the same thingYes.

%AtH and +%lifeleech may stack with each other.No.

What?
I'm not going to write an essay on every post.

Anyway , we can theorize all day about what could/should/might happen.
All that matters is what does happen.

[Bacon Sandwich]

Good post. I've learned quite a bit from listening to all you fine folks.

Question: does % ADtH only function via regular attacks? I read this entire post and didn't see a direct answer. I'm only asking because I read a bit further back on this thread when someone was explaining how cool it was to phantom strike 6 targets and get full health. Now, I tried this out, and got absolutely no health back at all as a result of %ADtH when using Phatom Strike (1 point, 8 into Synergy) . I have a meager little lvl 31 Harbringer, wielding Yin and Yang. For this experiment I also threw on a Soul Shiver (i think). All in all this gave me a fairly hefty %ADtH rate, however, I was only benefiting from it via regular attacks (and onslaught).

What am I doing wrong? My apologies for not having the exact numbers, but I'm workin' for the man today instead of sitting in front of my machine.

Regards
~Bacon

Edit: I may have misread some of the item bonuses on yin, yang, and Soul Shiver. Some of them are %ADtH, some are +5 to life leech. Even so, I am getting a metric ton of HP back via onslaught, and nonthing back from Phantom Strike/Dream Stealer.

[Apollospeed]

so.....when farming for Sapros, do I look for the most DPS, most %conv.health, or most reducing attribute?

Cause I have a Sapros with 15% that does 1300 DPS for me......and I have a Sword of Covo that is 17% that does 2450 DPS.

Should I use the Covo cause it makes more damage to actually convert? Or Sapros cause it has reducing attributes as well??

[Bacon Sandwich]

so.....when farming for Sapros, do I look for the most DPS, most %conv.health, or most reducing attribute?

Cause I have a Sapros with 15% that does 1300 DPS for me......and I have a Sword of Covo that is 17% that does 2450 DPS.

Should I use the Covo cause it makes more damage to actually convert? Or Sapros cause it has reducing attributes as well??


I'd say use both. "W" is your friend!!! I do it all the time, swap weapons for stat damage and effects, or DPS, then back to %ADtH when I need more HP back.

[Whisk33]

I'd say use both. "W" is your friend!!! I do it all the time, swap weapons for stat damage and effects, or DPS, then back to %ADtH when I need more HP back.
yeah you could do that...


Sapros will do more dmg becuase of the reduced resistances that it will apply on the monster afterwards. You should use whatever weapon helps you live,kill,have more fun better. Sapros will probably leech more since it will also reduce the life leech resistance of the monster as well.

Bacon.
%ACtH will work on every attack that involves that weapon. and is Soul Shiver's case every attack that involves any weapon. So yes with at least soul shiver you should be receiving health back. Possible reasons you are getting your health.
1 You missed your enemy. Phantom Strike often misses.
2 The monster had an extremely high life leech resistance
and my personal favorite
3 You are wrong. Possibly the most likely of them all. Chances are you infact did recieve life. I know even if I use a 10% ACtH with my haruspex and I hit more than two people it's instant full health. Of course I also get criticals for some +23000 when I use that PS puppy. Its a massive one.

[The Rock-man]

Bacon.
other poss are the following
1) it only hits with on weapon Yin making your life steal just 10%. Using onslaught your most likely doing a ton of duel-wield moves so both Yin and Yang are hitting (Yang will steal 20% life). Yin and Yang are low damage weapons 44 base DPH.
2) And there is a chance that Dream-stealer doesn't work with %ADtH and the guy who health filled up would of done so on a single mob (As PS has a +200% total damage).

[Whisk33]

Bacon.
2) And there is a chance that Dream-stealer doesn't work with %ADtH and the guy who health filled up would of done so on a single mob (As PS has a +200% total damage).

That is possible... To be honest I never cared too much, but I think... (whatever thats worth) that more mobs got me more health since your weapons stats and attributes are also applied to the multiple enemies that you hit. (I.E. it isn't only the bonus damage that they get hit with.)

[Bacon Sandwich]

Bacon.

2) And there is a chance that Dream-stealer doesn't work with %ADtH and the guy who health filled up would of done so on a single mob (As PS has a +200% total damage).

This one seems the most likely to me. I've only 1 point into PS and full into it's synergy. Even so, my HP's don't move, at all when I PS. I'll shift points around tonight and swap swords around and see what happens. Makes a lot more sense than "You're actually getting health back, you just don't know it" ;)

Update forthcomming...



and my personal favorite
3 You are wrong. Possibly the most likely of them all. Chances are you infact did recieve life. I know even if I use a 10% ACtH with my haruspex and I hit more than two people it's instant full health. Of course I also get criticals for some +23000 when I use that PS puppy. Its a massive one.

No, sorry. I may have just starting posting here, and may have only been playing for a scant few weeks, but I know when the numbers go up and when they don't. I've been gaming for years. I'd be willing to accept a few times here and there as PS simply missing (or my buddy killing my target mob before PS goes off, effecitvely resetting the CD but not going off). But that's simply not the case. If it's going up by such a minimal ammount that I'm not even seeing my health move, yet regular attacks are putting me at full after a few seconds, then somthing is wrong. I believe Rock-man's analysis is far more likely. Also, he's just less of a forum bully ;)

[Whisk33]

Also, he's just less of a forum bully ;)
*whisk33 gets hand slapped*
Ok. Ok.
So many people say things without thinking them through. I shouldn't have assumed you didn't do that.

The reason why I think that the second is the least likely is not just becuase I think human error and "feelings" will always lose to hard numbers. Its that when you(I) use PS I have gotten crticals for over 23,000 (23.000 for you europeans). Why is this important? Becuase it would have to take into account the dmg from the weapon (the base dmg) in order to reach a value that high. My reasoning is therefore if it uses the stats from the weapon it will use all the stats from the weapon. I'll try it out with my Spear of Ares and some gorgons.

Confirming, the MOBS you are PS are the same ones you are normal attacking and filling your health bar correct? Certain enemies will have a significantly higher Life leech resistance and that will reduce the amount of health granted back to you.
You are dual weilding? Do you have lots of points into Dw, Hew etc? If this is true you might be doing much more dmg on your normal attacks than your PS(or relatively not much more dmg on your PS than your normal) I believe if you have %ACtH on one weapon it will apply to the dmg that both do on a DW proc. Dependinging on what weapon you have on your right hand (this one will NEED to have ACtH) (though with the soul shiver artifact would apply to every weapon used).

Perhaps I was more helpful this time?
If not grow up some and try it when you are more like 60... The higher levels will increase you dmg a ton. I definately can fill up my whole health bar with PS and a 10%ACtH which shouldnt be happening EVEN IF I am doing 23,000 factoring life leech resistance of the monster also! So I would say numbers are definately saying that PS works on all enemies that hits.


EDIT:
So I grabbed my Spear, surrounded myself with some gorgons, let my health fall beneath 1000 AND PS everyone around me. Mind you I didnt get any crticals, but still.. my average dmg is around 3500 I belive. So if we times that by 8 we get 28000 multplied by 3 (for the +200%) which ups it to 84000. 10 percent of that is 8400. Now I figured I got around 1500 health or so (accuracy is not something I'm going for here). Depending on the resistances of the monsters this really isn't too bad. (I never factored armour pierce reisstance into the equation which would lower my original damage amount and finally life leech which will lower my health returned.)
closing thoughts, You might have a good point. I think someone should test it. *cough* APOC *cough*

[Bacon Sandwich]

As it turns out, you were partially correct (I maintain my hand slapping, however. Fie!)

There appears to be a bit of a bug with Ps/DS, at least for me. I logged in after work to test it out, rounded up a gaggle of Pengs (god I hate those things) and let them beat on me for a few. Then (using aforementioned relic and weapons) I let them have it and took them all out with DS. No health converted!

"HA!", I said to myself. "That Wisk33 guy is obviously wrong! I've won another moral victory!".

Then I noticed I wasn't getting ANY health back, at all. So I tried it out again. Beat on a few more pengs, same results. No health. Went and bothered some tigermen for a bit...no health.

"Bugger that!" Said I. I restarted my client, and tested it again. This time, I let the Pengs beat on me, then *WHAM* Phantom Stike. Full health. "By Crom! WTF?", said I.

I spent the better part of 3 hours trying to figure out what was causing it, to no avail. Here's what happens:

1.) I get full benefit from my %ADtH and never die. (Nerf Dream)
2.) I Get full benefit from my %ADtH EXCEPT from PS/DS.
3.) I get nothing from %ADtH and have to restart my game.


So really, I have no idea what triggers it. Even fighting mobs with ridiculously high "life leech" resist, I should still be getting some health back from my %ADtH. I think. I'm not sure. Shouldn't I?

[Whisk33]

So really, I have no idea what triggers it. Even fighting mobs with ridiculously high "life leech" resist, I should still be getting some health back from my %ADtH. I think. I'm not sure. Shouldn't I?

What does Fie mean?

on topic. No. If they have more than 100% lifeleech resistance then you wouldnt get anything (I think) but yeah normally you really should be getting at least some back...

That is definately the craziest thing I have ever heard. You weren't getting any health by any attack some times?!?!? Are you using mods by any chance? Do you have a legit copy of the game? I haven't heard of this yet and my Harbinger can only survive on %ACtH so if there was a time when I would be missing it I would quickly find myself at a rebirth shrine.

[Bacon Sandwich]

What does Fie mean?

on topic. No. If they have more than 100% lifeleech resistance then you wouldnt get anything (I think) but yeah normally you really should be getting at least some back...

That is definately the craziest thing I have ever heard. You weren't getting any health by any attack some times?!?!? Are you using mods by any chance? Do you have a legit copy of the game? I haven't heard of this yet and my Harbinger can only survive on %ACtH so if there was a time when I would be missing it I would quickly find myself at a rebirth shrine.


"(archaic) Used to express distaste, disgust, or outrage.
Fie upon you, you devilish fool!"

I jest :)

So 100% Life leech protects from Life Leach AND %ADtH? That is rather silly, as they're two differing types of damage according to the manual. I'll...have to look into it! I love that kind of thing.

Re: My game version -
When I run my Harbringer, I turn every mod off (with the notable exception of potion stacking, and "show all daamge"). It's my "Legit" toon, no added xp, items, ect. ect.
I do, however, Like to play around with test characters, so often times I'll crank the XP and mob item generation way up and dink around with wierd combos and whatnot.

I take it in stride, though. I also randomly get a bug where I can't actually see any enemies, pick up any items, or hit any hotkeys.

[Whisk33]

So 100% Life leech protects from Life Leach AND %ADtH? That is rather silly, as they're two differing types of damage according to the manual. I'll...have to look into it! I love that kind of thing.


When using %attackconverted to health all of your flat damage that is inflicted upon you enemy then goes through the percent conversion to health and then finally through the monsters life leech resistance before you are granted the health.

if possible always try to use a completely clean game for tests. I have never experienced your no enemies or butterfingers bugs before.

[Bacon Sandwich]

When using %attackconverted to health all of your flat damage that is inflicted upon you enemy then goes through the percent conversion to health and then finally through the monsters life leech resistance before you are granted the health.

if possible always try to use a completely clean game for tests. I have never experienced your no enemies or butterfingers bugs before.

Really? That's crazy, I didn't know that. How in the hell was that even tested? Regardless, it makes a lot more sense now. Perhaps I was running into a bunch of mobs with very high resistances. It wouldn't explain everything, but it would help.

I'll run a fresh client and see what happens.

[Whisk33]

Really? That's crazy, I didn't know that. How in the hell was that even tested? Regardless, it makes a lot more sense now. Perhaps I was running into a bunch of mobs with very high resistances. It wouldn't explain everything, but it would help.

I'll run a fresh client and see what happens.

Apocalypse did the testing on that one. I believe it was in a different thread http://www.titanquest.net/forums/dream/15643-attack-damage-converted-health-3.html#post144357
That post should clarify how it works. That thread talked all about it.

[Bacon Sandwich]

@#$# how did I miss that thread??

Thanks!


Uh, wait, dude...thats this thread.


I'm such a moron. I'm actually "loling" right now. I'm so getting fired. I actually read Apoc's posts on the subject and by the time I got to the end and started talking to you, I forgot.

Remember, kids. Recreational drug use DOES HAVE AN IMPACT. If you don't believe that, just ask me...somthing. What?

Bacon: Hay Gusy im wunderin how come leik when i phantom st1ke sometims i get 0 helth bak?
Wisk33: Uh...isn't that...what this thread is about??
Bacon: Whut? No lets argue!!!

[GawainBS]

What exactly does Vitality damage damage? As far as I get it, it's seperate from Health reduction. Can you shed some light on this?

BTW, I tried searching, but this thread seemed most appropriate.

Thanks in advance!

[Whisk33]

What exactly does Vitality damage damage? As far as I get it, it's seperate from Health reduction. Can you shed some light on this?

BTW, I tried searching, but this thread seemed most appropriate.

Thanks in advance!

Vitality damages the same thing everything damages? The targets health.
I do not know what you mean by that question. Vitality dmg is a damage type. Just like Pierce damage, fire damage, lighting damage, physical damage.

You need to be much more specific in your questioning.

[Bacon Sandwich]

I believe what he's asking is "how is Vitality Damage diferent from other types of damage?".

@Gawain, check this thread (http://www.titanquest.net/forums/immortal-throne-spoilers/15941-dmg-type-resistances.html?highlight=damage+types) by the great Whisk33. Doesn't 100% answer your question but it's a start.

[Whisk33]

That thread was made to answer any questions on Damage types. I simply tried to help clarify the information that the Knowledge thread and Manual give you a taste of. If you have a question, post it there as to help keep the threads on topic and relevent.

[GawainBS]

So it's just another damage type.
I though it would be something along the lines of "reduces max health" or "limits regenaration" or, to use D&D terminology "Constitution damage", instead of raw HP damage.

Thanks for the answer.:)

[Bacon Sandwich]

So it's just another damage type.
I though it would be something along the lines of "reduces max health" or "limits regenaration" or, to use D&D terminology "Constitution damage", instead of raw HP damage.

Thanks for the answer.:)

Oh that reminds me, your Thac0 needs to be around the -2 zone by the time you finish normal mode, otherwise the displacer beasts will tear you apart. And don't even think about taking on the Terasq without a minor wish.

[GawainBS]

Oh that reminds me, your Thac0 needs to be around the -2 zone by the time you finish normal mode, otherwise the displacer beasts will tear you apart. And don't even think about taking on the Terasq without a minor wish.

Hehehe. Thac0 is gone since 3.5... Now I'm hungry.;)