View Full Version : Warfare/Rogue - Onslaught & Calculated combine poorly?
06-29-2006, 11:56 PM
Do these two abilities, which are a big part of both masteries, not combine well?
It seems like these are abilities that you need to have as your main attack, but obviously you cannot have BOTH of them as your main attack, so you'd need to pick.
06-30-2006, 12:27 AM
You can put one on the left key and one on the right. Then you sort of juggle them for maximum damage. I haven't tried it, but I'm told it works. Sort of awkward, though.
06-30-2006, 01:10 AM
How would that work, swapping them though?
Onslaught has to build up for the best dmg.
Calculated strike has to build up for the best dmg, and only gets the big hit after you've swung with it 4 times (is that right?).
So if you went warfare/rogue, you would basically have to pick?
Now, there seem to be some synergies with dual wielding and other rogue skills (like all the bleeds and such - although I wonder how good bleeds are, since Damage over Time doesn't seem that great when each fight is so fast).
Anyway, the conflict between onslaught and calculated strike makes me wonder if rogue/defense is better than rogue/warfare, or what the synergies are for both.
06-30-2006, 01:26 AM
"So if you went warfare/rogue, you would basically have to pick?"
Thats what I thought also ...
I read about a guy on the vn forums that used onslaught left mouse and calculated strike on right mouse ... he really liked it ... I personally am not sure it would work well; maybe vs bosses it would but regular mobs you wont get much use out of it I would think.
06-30-2006, 01:40 AM
Yeah, i read that guy's posts on VN also. But it doesn't make sense to me, since hitting 3 times with onslaught and then using calculated for the 4th swing wouldn't count, since I think you need to hit 4 times with calculated.
06-30-2006, 02:21 AM
ya; I would only see a use personally vs bosses ...
I'm in the same boat ... trying to figure out a complimenting class for warefare ...
I just completed normal with a pure warefare build (was waiting to decide on a 2nd class).
Damage is pretty good; cept bosses are a bit tough ... defense thou ... thats another story ... magic/archers and tough champions can rip me a new one.
Not sure what class would give me a bit more defense vs the above and a little bit more offense.
Defense - doesnt give you too many things; armor handeling/adrenaline and rally, but not much else that is of use
Rogue - calculated strike for bosses, poison (prob is it's damage component I dont see it helping much since you kill things pretty quick, hone blade hmmm not sure what else here.
Spirit - good vs undead; which there are alot of ... deathchill aura is really nice when they are in melee range.; the lich is nice; and the outrider just plane owns
Nature - 96% more hps :) and 18% elemental resist, wolfs and a nymph, some healing (but you wont be healing much in battle.
I dont know much about the storm or earth line ...
oh almost forgot the hunting line ... I'd maybe go defense/hunter or rogue/hunter ... I dont think warfare works to well with hunter ... unless you were going to concentrate on hunter first and pick up some warefare skills like the onslaught line, battle rage, warcry, and warwind (can you warwind with a spear :)
06-30-2006, 02:27 AM
oh I should point out that luckily there are so many good things in the warfare line that you wont be spending that many points elsewhere :)
06-30-2006, 10:21 AM
I'm going that route myself right now and just using calculated strike. Can't see how they would work together myself for already mentioned reasons. Even without that my feeling is there is so much other stuff available in both trees for that play style (non magic high damage meleer) that it is still worthwhile. I'm sure something will come out in a month showing I'm better off with something else for raw melee damage thanks to someone's math... but right now I'm finding it working very well.
06-30-2006, 10:28 AM
So if you went warfare/rogue, would you just pick onslaught or calculated?
It seems to me that onslaught is better, since you get +dmg on every swing rather than only on every 4th swing. Most mobs don't take 4 swings to kill.
The synergy I guess is dual wielding along with open wounds & anatomy. 8 points in that means you have a 33% chance every swing of 118 bleed damage. The other synergy is dual wielding + blade honing for a lot of piercing damage.
Although, if the lucky hit mod is a 33% chance every calculated hit swing, rather than every 4th hit, then maybe calculated strike is better than onslaught.
It seems that for defense, war horn and flash powder (and maybe poison gas too) together provide two very good defensive tools. Then I guess you max dodge and Ignore Pain.
06-30-2006, 01:49 PM
left-click onslaught until your "circle" gets really big showing you have it at max power. then start right-clicking calculated strike. when your onslaught "circle" starts getting small, switch back to left-clicking onslaught.
works best with faster attack speeds so you can click calculated strike more times before you have to switch back to onslaught.
too tedious for me so I went war/storm and just use the storm enchantments to buff my attacks.
06-30-2006, 02:11 PM
I think you're missing the point. Once Onslaught is fully charged it slowly deteriorates, but it gets no extra bang at that point from using it. I think at last lvl it's 8 swings to fully charge. At that point you have suped up damage and if you click the Onslaught button you will do that damage and keep Onslaught fully charged.
If you get fully charged and switch over to CS you are now multiplying the CS and Onslaught bonuses. Yes... it is only every 4th swing, but that 4th swing is insane. Even the second 4th swing is excellent damage. Best bet is to fully charge Onslaught then toss out 8 CS'es then another 2ish Onslaughts FULLY recharges it so you can start CS'ing again.
Onslaught maxed is a consistent 50% dmg boost while fully charged. CS is a 150% dmg boost every 4th swing with piercing damage. What you're trying to do is make sure you're still at about +40% dmg from Onslaught when yyou're CS kicks in. Instead of 150% of 100% dmg you are getting 150% of 140% dmg. By the time the second one goes off you're getting 150% of 130% dmg. Follow?
06-30-2006, 02:25 PM
Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Ok, now that is pretty sweet.
Would that onslaught bonus apply to mortal strike, open wounds, etc?
If so, then wow, that could get pretty nasty fast. :)
Ok, warfare/rogue is sounding a lot more interesting.
06-30-2006, 03:37 PM
Like I said previously,
I would think the onslaught and calculated strike combo would only be useful vs champions and bosses (which is pretty important).
Although I'm not sure if I would dedicate calculated strike to the right mouse button or not thou; ie I have whirlwind on my right mouse button; and I actually like it and use it all the time (although the cool down is a pain).
My warefare guy has alot of the dual wield skills high level but he still wants to kill packs faster so hence the use of whirl wind ...
ie I usually run in a area get a bunch on me and whirlwind once and beat on the rest and perhaps whirlwind again if I need too.
I used to think I would use warhorn alot because of the damage from doomhorn and the stun; but in reality the stun is a pain because the mobs are more spread out and you cant use your 'aoe' attacks from dual wielding or whirlwind to kill them as well (you have to play 'run to where the guys are and kill em - which takes alot longer') ...
although I do use warhorn when I want to single out a champion and kill him first before I get the whole pack on me.
anyways ... I'm getting off topic here :)
so you could set your right mouse to calculated strike and perhaps a # key for whirlwind - might work ...
here's another thing I didnt think of ... you could build up poison bomb instead or warhorn and use that instead; ie poison bomb reduces their 'aim' which would still allot them to clump around you so you could kill them quick.
although the radius is a bit low and you have to 'throw' the bomb out so theres a slight delay ...
warhorn is insta cast and lets you kill the champion ' or work on him ' without being hit.
some things to think about; ie if I was going warefare rogue I would probably take these skills as rogue ...
calculated strike line
poison tree line
and now I'm thinking about the poison bomb
but thats it pretty much;
your problem will be undead; they are nasty ... your rogue tree wont help much
06-30-2006, 05:19 PM
I don't have a Warfare/Rogue, instead I have a Rogue/Defense. And I wouldn't say Calculated Strike is a big part of the rogue tree by any stretch. Its Lethal Strike thats the big one, along with Flash Bomb and Poison Bomb.
I first made a Defense/Rogue, but later remade (Spent too many points in Defense mastery and had no skills to help me out lol) as a Rogue/Defense. I balanced my Mastery points and skills points, and totally skipped Calculated Strike without a lick of notice. Lethal Strike gives a huge bonus for the tough enemies, and the bombs clear out minions with ease that Calc Strike, is really, a waste of points I feel.
I can see charging Onslaught to full, then using Calc Strike, but, you really won't be missing much by skipping Calc Strike, even if you can't get Onslaught you won't really miss it is my point.
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