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Zaishi
03-05-2007, 05:36 AM
I started a new character and finished IT on normal, now into epic and I don't see these new higher level skills. Do I still have to go farther to unlock them? Or do they just not exist?

damador
03-05-2007, 05:39 AM
there is no new skilll - there is one new class only

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 05:45 AM
10 Additional Character Levels - Bring existing and new characters to new heights with higher level equipment and skills.

Says that all over the place.

Nemo
03-05-2007, 06:21 AM
Higher level skills in existing masteries. With the ten additional levels, you can increase points in the skills of your mastery further than before.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 06:35 AM
Higher level skills in existing masteries. With the ten additional levels, you can increase points in the skills of your mastery further than before.

Not as far as I can see. All the skills have the same max levels as before.

Nemo
03-05-2007, 06:36 AM
But could you maximize most skills, even when reaching the highest level? That's the point, surely.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 06:45 AM
Being able to max more skills can't be called "higher level skills" by any stretch of the phrase. Not to mention some builds already have all useful skills maxed by level 65, any extra points are useless. The character I'm playing now will have every skill I want maxed by level 60. The rest goes into stuff that I probably will never use. I mean I already have all my important skills maxed at level 40, the next 20 levels is stuff that will kinda help a little. :neutral:

Terca
03-05-2007, 06:51 AM
Being able to max more skills can't be called "higher level skills" by any stretch of the phrase. Not to mention some builds already have all useful skills maxed by level 65, any extra points are useless. The character I'm playing now will have every skill I want maxed by level 60. The rest goes into stuff that I probably will never use. I mean I already have all my important skills maxed at level 40, the next 20 levels is stuff that will kinda help a little. :neutral:

You don't want to pump ANY skills after level 60? Regardless of build there should always be some sort of passive skill or something that would be usefull. Sorry if this was a little off topic :)

Dedo
03-05-2007, 07:38 AM
Most optimal builds really have all the skill points they need by level 55-60.

So to answer your question, there is no other higher skill to accommodate a 65-75 cap increase.

You will have a lot of useless left over skill points with no real practical or worthwhile use. Which leads to the point of one-point wonders [big thread about it in the suggestions section

http://www.titanquest.net/forums/suggestions-developers/11870-one-point-wonders-oh-humanity.html].

Hopefully in the patch change some skills are reworked.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 08:11 AM
So they lied in all their advertising? Fantastic.

I read that and thought another tier of skills in each mastery, say level 40. That was one of the biggest draws to the expansion for me (and it looks like it would fit perfectly on the skill window). I kept pushing on through the content hoping it would be unlocked by a quest or something. :cry:

Ring
03-05-2007, 08:49 AM
No, actually they did not lie. If you look at the artifacts, you'll notice that a lot of them offer skills that we haven't seen before. Powerful, unique and introduced in IT. Yup, that pretty much covers the definition of "new skills" if you ask me.

Introducing new skills to existing masteries would be pretty strange. It could result in massive respeccing, could ruin the balance of the game... No point in that, is there?? I don't recall Lord of Destruction introducing new skills for the Barbarian or the Amazon, or Hellfire granting new abilities to the Rogue.

The old characters stay the way they were, they can gain new skills via artifacts and/or items and that suits me just fine. I really see no "lying" here. They promised new skills, they gave new skills. At no poin did they say "we're changing the old masteries to introduce new abilities for existing characters".

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 09:25 AM
No, actually they did not lie. If you look at the artifacts, you'll notice that a lot of them offer skills that we haven't seen before. Powerful, unique and introduced in IT. Yup, that pretty much covers the definition of "new skills" if you ask me.

LOL

You haven't tried those yet have you? They aren't skills, they are very low chance proc effects. They are worthless. ;)

Dunno why you are trying to compare this to Diablo. Neither game raised the level cap IIRC so your points are moot. If you raise the level cap, you add new skills, it's a staple of RPGs, and it's something Iron Lore said they were doing everywhere.

Ring
03-05-2007, 10:01 AM
Worthless?? Dealing several k damage is worthless??!! Wow. That's a new one.


If you raise the level cap, you add new skills, it's a staple of RPGs I beg to differ. Sacred Underworld raised the cap, introduced new characters, items, areas and so on, but didn't touch the old characters.

And please don't mix up RPGs with action games which can be called action RPGs (if you're feeling generous) or simply hack'n'slash if you want to use the more technical term. Fallout is an example of an RPG game. TQ is H'n'S.

ward_rb
03-05-2007, 10:07 AM
Worthless?? Dealing several k damage is worthless??!! Wow. That's a new one.
i think he meant because of the very low proc chance....from what ive been hearing its around 1-2%, although i dont have IT yet to check myself.

if the proc chance is really that low, i would agree that its worthless. cool when it goes off, but you cant depend on it.

TommyD
03-05-2007, 10:25 AM
If I am level 65 and I have only 5 or so points invested in xxxxx skill. But now I get to 75 and I can dump more points into said skill, then guess what I have--a higher level skill! 8 is a higher level than the original 5.

So yes, it might be a little sneaky, but they are not lying by any stretch of the imagination, even if the higher level skill is worthless or minimal compared to just 1-point in that skill.

Mindless
03-05-2007, 10:27 AM
i think he meant because of the very low proc chance....from what ive been hearing its around 1-2%, although i dont have IT yet to check myself.

if the proc chance is really that low, i would agree that its worthless. cool when it goes off, but you cant depend on it.

Of course it's low proc rate.

Tyrants fist (a greater artifact) deals 3000 - 3100 physical damage along with 6000 - 6100 lightning damage in a wave in the direction you are facing when attacking. I don't call that bad. What should the % be? 5%? 10%!?

No, then you'd be cleaning up stuff way too fast to enjoy anything. I don't want my character to spew out waves of flames, ice and water every hit I make that obliterates everything in my vicinity. I'd much rather have a attack / defensive skill that activates once in a while (, and you go like "**** YEAH!" everytime it happens.

There are some very useful artifacts that activate on low hp which adds like +50 HP regen, mana regen and 300% resistances to everything, making you completely immune to attacks and fully healing you.

Too much eyecandy gets boring and we've seen that before...

Sontrois
03-05-2007, 10:37 AM
Makes perfect sense to me, it says along with higher level equipment and skills not NEW higher level skills for your existing masteries. I think what it says can be interpreted as the later only by stretching the phrase.

The way I read it, I was never under the impression that there'd be new skills for the existing classes. My skills can be brought to higher levels....by raising the skill masteries due to the higher level cap...makes perfect sense...

Ring
03-05-2007, 12:02 PM
Too much eyecandy gets boring and we've seen that before... Amen to that. I remember the good ol' days of GameBoy Advance and playing Golden Sun. When you got the best weapons, the ones with great unleashes (kinda like summons, you hit with the sword, and some magical effect occurs) it was amazing to see them in action. But once you realized they happened in 80% of hits, they quickly got boring and annoying ("yeah, yeah, hurry up, will ya??"). I wouldn't want that in TQ.

I believe Iron Lore said what they meant and meant what they said. They can't be held responsible because of someone's interpretation of their words.

ororor
03-05-2007, 03:28 PM
One point wonder thingy doesn't apply to my build which needs mare 69 lvls to master all (but i still have something to improve)
TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Diviner (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Diviner&master1=2&master2=9&m1=32-6-0-0-8-0-0-0-1-16-0-0-8-0-1-8-12-0-0-1-0-0-0&m2=32-0-12-0-0-8-12-6-16-6-8-0-12-1-0-0-6-0-0-8-0-0-0-0)

Evil666
03-05-2007, 05:06 PM
There's news skills available when you're using scrolls, artifacts or news items that grant news skills.

But they don't added news skills to the existing Masteries.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Worthless?? Dealing several k damage is worthless??!! Wow. That's a new one.

I beg to differ. Sacred Underworld raised the cap, introduced new characters, items, areas and so on, but didn't touch the old characters.

And please don't mix up RPGs with action games which can be called action RPGs (if you're feeling generous) or simply hack'n'slash if you want to use the more technical term. Fallout is an example of an RPG game. TQ is H'n'S.

Um, I can hit for 3k AoE damage with Phantom Strike every like 10 seconds. At level 30. These artifacts might do that much, but you'll be lucky to see it go off once every 10-20 minutes. Worthless.

Sacred Underworld did not raise the level cap. The level cap has always been so high in that game that you can't really get there, even with Underworld.

WTH are you talking about with the RPG thing. TQ is a point and click, hack and slash RPG, same genre as Dungeon Siege, Diablo, Silverfall, Mageknight, Sacred, and many MMOs like Lineage 2, RF, RO, etc. I've played them all, I know what I'm talking about.

Scrolls are not skills, they are (very expensive) consumable items, like potions. Proc effects on items are not skills.

Bottom line is there are no higher level skills, no matter how you interpret the phrase. It's false advertising, it's a lie to get people to buy the game. Just like the girl on the cover, and the rotating cameras in the trailer.

Mindless
03-05-2007, 08:38 PM
Once every 10-20 mins you say? Your attackspeed must be negative.

And despite all that, you bought it? Oh well...

Regarding the spinning camera, that's a shot from debug mode.

Tell me, have you ever seen a game trailer that hasn't displayed features that aren't actually in the game. In the trailer for Lineage 2's 4th chronicle (for example), they pictured 33 heroes killing the toughest dragon (so far). That's not possible. Is that false advertising? Because the two are basically the same thing because: They picture something you can not do ingame.

Face it, you had too high hopes for the game, and you litterally interpreted the text of the new features.

I've bought games saying 100+ hours of awsome playtime, yet, I've found myself beating everything in less than half of that? Warhammer: Mark of Chaos said the same thing, uber long, expansive campaign, I finished it in a few hours at most.

EDIT: This is what the box says exactly:

"Visit mysterious Enchanters who will create powerful artifacts from collected items and let you draw upon a barrage of new skills, scrolls and weapons."

As we all know, commas (,) are put in places where you pause instead of ending the sentence. In other words, it says the artifacts let you draw upon a barrage of new skills.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 09:12 PM
Once every 10-20 mins you say? Your attackspeed must be negative.

Actually I posted my stats and one of the artifacts I was testing in the "Post your Artifacts" thread. Link to the screen. (http://home.nycap.rr.com/irealms/screenshot02.jpg)

I went from fifth domain to the point I took this shot seeing it trigger only twice. Both times it was completely useless since I can kill everything in one shot anyway. Ya, awesome new skill right there. Maybe if you cap your atk speed and your DPS is trash you might see it going off a little more often. :whistle:


and you litterally interpreted the text of the new features.

I did what? Wow, what was I thinking? :knockout:

Mindless
03-05-2007, 09:40 PM
Actually I posted my stats and one of the artifacts I was testing in the "Post your Artifacts" thread. Link to the screen. (http://home.nycap.rr.com/irealms/screenshot02.jpg)

I went from fifth domain to the point I took this shot seeing it trigger only twice. Both times it was completely useless since I can kill everything in one shot anyway. Ya, awesome new skill right there. Maybe if you cap your atk speed and your DPS is trash you might see it going off a little more often. :whistle:

I did what? Wow, what was I thinking? :knockout:

Well of course everthing dies instantly if you have high enough damage.

It's quite obvious by now that we both have completely different ideas of a enjoyable game since you pretty much want your character to spew out fire and brimstone every other hit. Or am I mistaken?

I got capped attackspeed at (222%) and get around 10 000 DPS with Collossus Form + Adrenaline Rush. Monsters on legendary pose no real threat with this, yet, I would find it fun and entertaining if my character would blase the monsters with a wave of psionic energy that kills everything every once in a while.

And regarding the interpretation:

I simply assumed that a person who has such vast experiences of RPG's and MMORPG's would know what to expect after the (probably) massive ammount of time playing these games. Lineage 2 alone takes weeks worth of gametime (as in several hundred hours) to get any form of reward in playing the game.

Something one should also take note of is the level of the artifact. 30. There are several above 50 and probably above 60 that exist in the game. One I found added 4000% energy leech on attack (200% causes damage) which means 200% will be multiplied with the remaining 3800% (38 times) = over 7000 damage. I don't find that bad. Not bad at all if it's a attack that affects a group of monsters. Add to that your own damage (mine goes up to 7000 a hit on Hades), can't complain about 14 000 damage myself.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 09:48 PM
Well of course everthing dies instantly if you have high enough damage.

It's quite obvious by now that we both have completely different ideas of a enjoyable game since you pretty much want your character to spew out fire and brimstone every other hit. Or am I mistaken?

You are mistaken. I don't know what you are talking about. These skills are worthless because they are unreliable, and in most cases overkill. It's better to just use another artifact that adds a more reliable form of DPS, like +%damage or attack speed.

What good is a proc that triggers once a dungeon and instantly vaporizes everything around you if you could already kill that stuff almost instantly?


I simply assumed that a person who has such vast experiences of RPG's and MMORPG's would know what to expect after the (probably) massive ammount of time playing these games. Lineage 2 alone takes weeks worth of gametime (as in several hundred hours) to get any form of reward in playing the game.

What does this have to do with anything? Yes I play grind games, I spend a lot of time on them. I like working for things. What is your point? I have a level 77 Necromancer in L2.

Edit:


Something one should also take note of is the level of the artifact. 30. There are several above 50 and probably above 60 that exist in the game. One I found added 4000% energy leech on attack (200% causes damage) which means 200% will be multiplied with the remaining 3800% (38 times) = over 7000 damage. I don't find that bad. Not bad at all if it's a attack that affects a group of monsters. Add to that your own damage (mine goes up to 7000 a hit on Hades), can't complain about 14 000 damage myself.

Proc effects aren't skills regardless of how useful they are.

WNxDeathbane
03-05-2007, 09:53 PM
I got the same issues with the whole leve cap raised.
My warden already got all his main skills at lvl 45 or something and im lvl 53 now.
Next 22 lvls will be useless additions for my mastery's.
Alot of builds just don't require much skill points.
I really don't get it though, whats the use of raising the lvl cap when you don't add a new set of skills for each mastery.
Ah well not the first company to make mistakes:razz:
Guess some builds do got some use out of all the extra skill points

Mindless
03-05-2007, 09:55 PM
Then use one that adds only passive bonuses.

Problem solved?

Regarding new skills, my guess is that there is more to come. Zaishi, I'm sure you noticed the two portals after you kill Cerberus. One leads to Elysium and the other one is closed. Maybe they will add some form of 'secret cow level' to this area to justify these 10 new levels and artifacts that are 'useless'.

However, this is ultimately only a speculation from my part.

Amaran9th
03-05-2007, 09:58 PM
Pick your battles man. From my knowledge of your posts on here and gamespot, I see you are trying to find flaws in the marketing, or "false advertising." That's fine but do you think any of us really care about that on a game forum? Take it up with someone who can do something about it if you feel so strongly about it, and it seems like you do.

You picked apart the statement about 8 new classes... due to your infamiliarity with the game maybe
You're shocked that there's not a new tier of skills... I'm shocked that you had inside information that said there was a new tier, you just assumed because there was space above level 32 skills?

If you're unhappy about the way the skills proc on the artifacts, be my guest, give the developers your feedback and let's all discuss whether we liek the current system. I for one do not give a damn about what little details you choose to nitpick about a great game and a great developer. If you don't agree with that last statement, there's a simple solution, take your business elsewhere, and your marketing rant posts.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 09:59 PM
Then use one that adds only passive bonuses.

Problem solved?

What problem are you talking about? I don't have any problem with artifacts. I have a problem with there not being higher level skills despite a level cap increase and them saying there would be. :knockout:


Regarding new skills, my guess is that there is more to come. Zaishi, I'm sure you noticed the two portals after you kill Cerberus.

I made this post hoping to get an answer as to whether or not that was the case. I did notice that other door, I'm guess it goes to hell or whatever.

Mindless
03-05-2007, 10:01 PM
So, in the end, this was all about poor wording Zaishi? Items imbued with spells and magical effects are not skills because you don't think they are. And as Amaran reminded us, you started going on about the 8 new classes which actually are 9. Geez.

EDIT: I see where this mentaility is coming from. Reminds me why I quit playing L2...

Regarding the new content, I highly doubt that a game company would announce a coming title or breaking news regarding an expansion in such a hurry. Especially on a public board.

/me thinks you should PM a developer from Iron Lore and ask them this, as obviously we can't reach a final conclusion.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 10:04 PM
You picked apart the statement about 8 new classes... due to your infamiliarity with the game maybe
You're shocked that there's not a new tier of skills... I'm shocked that you had inside information that said there was a new tier, you just assumed because there was space above level 32 skills?

All I have to say, is you need to reread some of the things you are arguing with.

A. My post on GameFAQs was about ther being NINE new classes not 8.
B. I didn't assume there would be a new tier of skills, that was just a guess, it could have also just been higher level skill point caps in some skills. Where is my "inside information" about this? Gee, it's on the main IT website, under game. Very first feature listed.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 10:07 PM
Items imbued with spells and magical effects are not skills because you don't think they are. And as Amaran reminded us, you started going on about the 8 new classes which actually are 9. Geez.

I didn't "go on" about them. I made a topic meant to be humorous because it says 8 when there are 9.

The definition of skill:
The ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well.

An item that has a chance of doing something is not a skill, by definition. Not because I think so.

Mindless
03-05-2007, 10:09 PM
The artifact is a magical orb. It has the knowledge of how to use the skill, not your character.

Oh wait, am I trying to interpret stuff in benefit for my own hopes and beliefs? Yes.

Or do you mean to say that the orb lacks this 'skill' because it's not capable of doing something well (as in high proc rate)?

Amaran9th
03-05-2007, 10:16 PM
Just so we're clear and on the same page, your post from Gamespot, unless there's another Zaishi:

"Somebody doesn't know how to count. There's 9, going by their view of "classes." They forgot the pure Dream class, AKA the Seer. Really there's only one new "class" though, with 8 new multi-class options. It's kind of annoying when devs overstate the content in their game, though very amusing when they fail at simple math in the process."

Your conclusion here is that "there's only one new 'class' though"..."it's kind of annoying when devs overstate the content in their game"...

You go on talking about dirty tactics used by marketing, so here is where I draw my information, from your posts, excuse me for that.

All I'm asking is if you're going to continue to vehemently search for flaws in marketing strategies used by THQ, take it somewhere where people wish to discuss that sort of thing. People here aren't grateful for your shedding light on these "dirty tactics," we're here wasting our time debating with you when there's obviously no way to change your opinion. Your mind seems set, am I right?

Let's discuss the power of these new skills in the game that proc when using the new items, not whether or not the wording on the expansions web site is misleading or not. If someone does wish to continue this scintillating discussion, this is the last you'll hear from me on the matter.

Mindless
03-05-2007, 10:20 PM
I actually found it quite enjoying at first but as the subject obviously changed from a game discussion to a near political discussion, no. Not as entertained.

Zaishi
03-05-2007, 10:22 PM
this is the last you'll hear from me on the matter.

Cheers. :happy:

Infares
03-05-2007, 11:02 PM
Keep in mind that most of the advertising that goes onto the backs of boxes or on press releases by the Publisher are often written by people with only a cursory knowledge of the game.

This has lead to false advertising in the past, and isn't really Iron Lore's fault. Imagine creating a great game and having a press release include fanciful tidbits of stuff that aren't even really important, even taking story arcs out of context and playing up features of the game that are tertiary at best in an attempt to extend the target audience beyond what would actually pick the game up and play it if it was just a DVD in a transparent jewel case.

Edit: Aside from your seemingly anal-retentive style of semantic debate, Zaishi, your avatar's pretty hot.

TommyD
03-05-2007, 11:53 PM
My earlier post about having a level 8 skill being higher level than a level 5 skill (by definition) goes unreplied to.

As for the 9 classes, it is clear that the definition of "class" is a two-mastery combo, which is why the original's manual claims that there are 28 classes (even though there are names given for the single-masteries, also in the manual).

So given their definition of a class, they are abosultely correct. Given practically anyones definition of a higher-level skill, they are still correct. Heck, even given the definiton of an artifact-given skill, they are still correct...useless or otherwise.

Zaishi
03-06-2007, 01:25 AM
My earlier post about having a level 8 skill being higher level than a level 5 skill (by definition) goes unreplied to.

The fact that they raised the level cap obviously implies one would get more skill points. There's no reason to include "more skill points" as a feature, and if they had that would have been their words. It was unreplied to because it wasn't very intelligent and I was trying to be polite by not pointing that out. Not to mention that angle was already covered very early on in the topic.


As for the 9 classes, it is clear that the definition of "class" is a two-mastery combo, which is why the original's manual claims that there are 28 classes (even though there are names given for the single-masteries, also in the manual).

My manual makes no such claim, nor does it list class names. Don't go off-topic.


Given practically anyones definition of a higher-level skill, they are still correct.

Practically anyone? Aside from like, every dictionary, and everyone who knows what they are talking about you mean.


Aside from your seemingly anal-retentive style of semantic debate

There's nothing semantic here. There is no other way to interpret "higher level skills," there just isn't. Stop looking at the topic subjectively and trying to fabricate silly alternative meanings to a very blunt and simple statement. You know very well what was meant and what the reader was intended to think.

Ring
03-06-2007, 02:07 AM
There is no other way to interpret "higher level skills," there just isn't So it's a simple case of "I'm right, you're wrong STFU n00b, I R teh H4xz0R with lvl 77 Necromancer"?? Since when do you have a monopoly on truth??

Your interpretation of the devs' words is just that: an interpretation. And, like all interpretations, it is highly subjective. You understand their words one way, the rest of the community seems to understand them differently. You're entitled to your opinion, we're entitled to ours.

The funny thing is that the majority here doesn't seem in any way "cheated" by Iron Lore.

If I could suggest something: let's get this thread closed. It's turning into nothing more than a flamewar. There is one disgruntled customer, who will even go on to say that white is, in fact, black, because that's how he interprets it. Nothing new is being said and the whole thing is getting personal.

Batman
03-06-2007, 06:43 AM
Agreed. If you think you've been cheated by IronLore, contact them directly. They really are great people and will deal with you fairly and reasonably, which is a damned site better treatment you'll get here. Probably.

THREAD CLOSED