Am I right about the Harbinger and Templar?

[dambros]

Am I right that Dream will be way too overpowered? I don't know, but after reading the Dream mastery it's seems kinda OP, mostly those 2 classes...

Let me explain why...

First the Harbinger that IMO will be the strongest one.

Well the build I'm gonna describle is based on DW and survival.
A lot of people complain about DW chars that dies too often, so Dream looks like an answer. This answer is the life steel aura...
You are gonna have the best attack speed of the game from DW tree, and a huge damage bonus from Onslaught. From dream you will have the life steel aura, plus 124% damage from skills and some electrical damage that I don't know how to calculate.
Now imagine yourself with a green sword that gives you life steel plus a Bat fang (not sure if that is the right relic), you can get almost 25% of life stell. If you DPS is around 500 without buff, with the dream auras this may reach 1120, now put more 50% from Onslaught and you have 1620 of DPS.
With 25% of life stell you're going to regen 405 hp per hit... Your DW will give you the speed you need to have you HP pool always full...
The build I talked about would be something like this:
TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Harbinger (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Harbinger&master1=3&master2=9&m1=32-6-0-8-6-6-6-1-6-0-1-0-6-6-0-6-0-6-6-6-16-0&m2=32-0-12-0-12-8-12-6-0-6-8-0-0-0-8-0-6-0-0-0-0-0)

The Templar now.

Well with pure a pure defender you can reach almost 100% of shield block using +4 items (focus + quick recovery + green shield with turtle shell).
The dreams mastery gives you a 60% damage reflection aura.
With a ~100% shield block char plus a 60% damage reflection, 3-10% damage converted to health, and 124% damage bonus you're going to have a imortal char. AND you still have a pet to hang around and help you out the inteire game.
The build I talked about would be something like this:
TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Templar (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-0-1-0-6-1-0-8-6-6-6-1-0-0-6-8-6-6-0-8-6-0&m2=32-0-12-0-12-8-12-6-16-6-8-0-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-8-0-0)

The max level will be 75, right?

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Dream Mastery will be a hell of a class, and will get nerfed very soon after the game is released.

Please if something I said about the build is wrong, fell free to correct ^^

Thanks for reading.

[CycloneJack]

Nah, a Harbringer won't be any more imbalanced than a Spellbreaker. A Spellbreaker can already do massive life leech with the Necrosis Aura, combined with some good %Dam Conv to HP weapons, you can get most of youe HP bar back in just a few hits. Lucid Dream tree is quite comparable with the Deathchill Aura. One buffs self while the other debuffs nearby enemies. The big difference will be in the use of some of the direct damage skills, such as Phantom Strike and Distort Reality. You'll be doing much more damage than a Spellbreaker, but you will not have the utility of Fear and Mind Control. Overall, I think the two will be comparable. I'll probably run a Harbringer, just so I can compare it to the Spellbreaker. Each has their strength and weakness.

Cyclone Jack

[mamba]

From your build I guess you think you get it from Psionic Touch (+96%) and Lucid Dream (+28%), but Psionic Touch is an active skill, so you either will use Onslaught or Psionic Touch, not both.

Psionic Touch reminds me a lot of Calculated Strike from Rogue, both have 3 charge levels and both deal a huge amount of additional damge (CS even does +156% +103 piercing, so exceeds PT). So I assume the skills work the same way.

CS is triggered on every 4th hit and then needs another 3 to recharge (unlike Onslaught, which builds up its full force over 8 hits and stays there).

As both skills are active, they do not complement each other but compete for being the standard attack. Usually Onslaught wins out over CS, so it should also do so over PT (which is weaker than CS).

Thus your +124% seems to be based on wrong assumptions, so the build is not overpowered but very comparable to an Assassin (Warfare + Rogue) for the regular damage. The Assassin even has the advantage of further boosting this thru the Envenom Weapon tree.

[Diran]

Actually Spirit is probably still stronger and for less points although it might be close. Spirit's aura does massive -life leech resist which greatly increases your leeching and allows you to leech against skeletons (and provides aura specifically for skeletons, only a few points help you a lot) There are some good purple swords that work. Attack speed is also very important. The offensive ability may almost be more valuable as we saw the character have trouble hitting at higher levels.

The spirit auras also greatly reduce damage and speed as well as taking damage over time. I haven't played with the reflect ability much on my defender, but it may be slightly better. I think Psionic Touch conflicts with DW, so you can only use one at a time. Maxing war horn (for AOE and duration) will do more to help your survival. I'd like more points in battle standard. This is probably a bit better build.

TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Harbinger (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Harbinger&master1=3&master2=9&m1=32-6-0-8-6-6-6-10-6-0-3-8-6-0-0-6-1-6-6-6-16-0-0&m2=32-0-0-0-12-8-12-6-0-0-8-0-0-0-8-12-6-0-0-0-0-0-0)

Distortion Field is questionable. Normally it doesn't activate early enough into combat, although the duration is long enough you might be able use it during the start of the next battle. Another possible tactic is Distoration Wave with the first upgrade. Pretty good damage, increased by STR with a large amount of -armor and a good slow. Not quite clear how big or long this attack is.


As for you Templar, get rid of the pet, there are so many better places you can put it. First, you've ignored the entire rally line. Max Adrenaline, combined rally, and other +regen or +HP/sec items can really help your life regen. Max the second skill after rally to double the duration to 20 seconds, then max the third skill for another 60% reflected (120%) total and 50% resist elemental. Combined with Adrenaline you can almost keep this perma if it procs at the right time. Batter is absolutely required for aoe damage. After all that you are here:

TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Templar (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-0-1-1-6-12-1-8-6-6-6-1-6-1-6-8-6-6-12-1-6-0-0&m2=32-0-0-0-12-8-12-6-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-0-0-0-0)

I removed Psionic Touch and upgrade in this build. It's useful, but we can't don't have a good synergy with either the vitality damage or the electric burn which is very small late game. You have a few places to look at placing your remaining points.

Trance of Convalescence combined with +regen items and rally will boost your HP recovery even more and is probably a better skill against various bosses and heroes.
Distortion Field when it goes off provides straight damage absorption and some reflection (increased by str and +damage mods). Your battles will take longer then warfare so you might get more use out of this.
Rally - maxed gives you a 1720 heal, and 40 armor. nothing to laugh at. The heal means you can wait a little longer hoping adrenaline will proc.
Shield charge for more damage.
Batter for more damage and larger slow, up to 50%.
Distort Reality - looks like it will be pretty good damage over a decent AOE. The upgrade could provide a little more defense with petrify. The burn won't be as useful though (unless maybe you are using lightning weapons and items?)
Distoration Wave if it's a decent arc and range also looks quite good. Large slow, decent damage and large armor decrease that might make for a good shield charge.

Honestly I'd probably go for Rally, and either batter or the Trance. You could even reduce your dream mastery to level 24 and take all three it looks like, at level 75.

[mamba]

Well, here's my Templar build idea

TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Templar (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-6-12-0-6-1-4-0-0-6-6-0-1-0-6-8-6-0-12-8-6&m2=32-0-12-0-12-8-12-6-0-0-8-0-12-0-0-0-6-0-12-0-0)

Instead of Batter, I opt for Phantom Strike for my AoE, with the prolonged stun from Concussive Blow this looks very good to me.

The one thing I always missed in Defense is a good attack, with Psionic Touch and Phantom Strike this is nicely added, so I certainly wouldn't forego either.

[The Rock-man]

You may want Psi Strike as a Templar Dream/Defense why? +95% total damage every 4th hit and no other active skill this is an avg of +24% damage boost.

Also Guys Remember theres an Extra 10 levels that +30 Skill Points more with out counting +skill items of which your gonna have some of by the end levels.

BTW Mamba only 1 Thance at a time so don't max all 3. Phant Strike has a long cooldown of 15+s it more Sheild charge than Batter, i think Psi Burn what your thinking of.
I think maybe something like this would be good Linky (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-6-12-1-6-1-1-5-6-6-6-1-6-1-6-8-6-4-12-8-6-0&m2=32-0-12-0-12-8-12-6-0-6-8-0-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-0-0-0)

[Shadow_azzazen]

I am at the moment making a warrior wich will later become a harbinger, and I've read this post, he will still become very powerfull even if he can't use both PT and Onslaught, but what I am really thinking about is the prophet. He will have two power-spells; lightning bolt and distort reality with its synenergi the temporal rift. Temporal rift grants 800 electrical dmg over 4 sec. With trance of wrath and lucid dream + eye of the strom, static charge and items, this spell will deal sooooooooo much dmg, -recharge and intelect bonus won't make it less powerfull. So i think it is this class that will be OVERPOWERED.

PS : temporal rift also does 6 sec of pertrify, wich doesn't hurt too

[Infares]

I guess medierra said that elemental DoT like Electrical Burn aren't boosted by bonuses to Lightning Damage, although they are boosted by Intelligence and straight bonuses to electrical burn damage etc.

[Shadow_azzazen]

I guess medierra said that elemental DoT like Electrical Burn aren't boosted by bonuses to Lightning Damage, although they are boosted by Intelligence and straight bonuses to electrical burn damage etc.

how sad, and I who thought I had found the "new" oracle.......:cry:

[Infares]

how sad, and I who thought I had found the "new" oracle.......:cry:

I know lol, I was going to make a strength based Stormcaller myself.

Diviner's still good though, start one of those.

[bug]

I guess medierra said that elemental DoT like Electrical Burn aren't boosted by bonuses to Lightning Damage, although they are boosted by Intelligence and straight bonuses to electrical burn damage etc.

But it still gets +45% (just above 60% with ultimate) from lucid dream. And there's quite a bunch of skills in Dream mastery that benefit from this. :rockon:

[bug]

You may want Psi Strike as a Templar Dream/Defense why? +95% total damage every 4th hit and no other active skill this is an avg of +24% damage boost.

I just thought of this, but what if Psi Touch works like Onslaught (goes up three charges and stays there)? I know it would be almost overkill, but the description doesn't say that it goes off every 4 hits and I haven't seen any info that it does indeed. :confused:

[Infares]

I just thought of this, but what if Psi Touch works like Onslaught (goes up three charges and stays there)? I know it would be almost overkill, but the description doesn't say that it goes off every 4 hits and I haven't seen any info that it does indeed. :confused:

medierra confirmed that the "3 charge levels" meant that it was closer to Calculated Strike in implementation.

[bug]

medierra confirmed that the "3 charge levels" meant that it was closer to Calculated Strike in implementation.

Who's medierra, and how did he/she confirm this? And what does 'closer to Calculated Strike' mean?

[Mindless]

Who's medierra, and how did he/she confirm this? And what does 'closer to Calculated Strike' mean?

Medierra is one of the game developers that quite frequently roam this forum to answer questions.

Calculated Strike is a skill that Rogues has that basically charges up a level each time you attack, and after three charges, it unleashes a powerful attack that deals X%+ in damage.

Reply to the actual topic:

Templar sure seems to allow some excellent damage resistances. With Premonition and a Agamemnons Scepter you'd have about 40% increased OA and DA. Getting above 1500 (possibly 2000+) in both should be very easy for a higher level templar. With a armor such as Ferrus Gnosi, Ajax' Bronze Shield and Armor of the Burning Blade (the helm) you would be pretty much like a walking fortress (or Deimos and Phobos for %damage/hp conv. and the +skills). Add Collossus form to that and other synergies... well, you get the idea. Add to that the possibility of some new, awsome rings and amulets from IT and most importantly artifacts, that might also add armor protection, hp, damage resistance and so on.

Got to agree. Making a turtle Templar should be pretty awsome, and still be able to dish out a hell lot of damage (thanks to the %offensive ability).

[The Rock-man]

Dont forget there be new armors and weapons added, after all theres a whole new act and class that needs items.

[bug]

Calculated Strike is a skill that Rogues has that basically charges up a level each time you attack, and after three charges, it unleashes a powerful attack that deals X%+ in damage.

Ok, but how can Psi Touch act 'closer to CS'? It either goes off every 3rd strike or it doesn't...

[Mindless]

Ok, but how can Psi Touch act 'closer to CS'? It either goes off every 3rd strike or it doesn't...

He meant closer to Calculated Strike in the sense that it charges up three levels then delivers a heavy blow, in contrary to Onslaught which charges up seven levels, and starts loosing levels unless you keep charging it (by attacking).


Dont forget there be new armors and weapons added, after all theres a whole new act and class that needs items.

Of course not. With over 250 new uniques (think that was the number) I'm sure there will be some great items among them. The armor you see in the trailer looks awsome (some undead-like armor with lots of spikes and stuff on it).

[Dedo]

I can almost guarantee you any Dream combo won't come close to my 26 dps 80k+ crit Spear Trap Brigand.

Also, Defense is very strong with plenty of masteries, it all seems fine to me.

[bug]

I can almost guarantee you any Dream combo won't come close to my 26 dps 80k+ crit Spear Trap Brigand.

Also, Defense is very strong with plenty of masteries, it all seems fine to me.

It doesn't need to. It has skills like Distortion Wave or Distort Reality or a pet that can sow confusion. Lots of electrical DOT skills. It's a different play style.

[Stilldream]

There's nothing unbalanced about the dream mastery. Phantom strike and distort reality, while being good skills, have long cooldowns (about 15s). However, I do find distort reality very useful. Would only bother with its upgrade though, temporal rift. 7s petrification at slvl 12 plus significant damage if your geared right. One distort reality is the bane of any non-boss. (Its got huge aoe as well).

Phantom strike is definitively fun to mess around with and its doubtlessly worth at least 1p for the "teleport" ability alone.

Distortion wave has good range and low cooldown (around 4), but you really have to max it all out (at least psionic immolation) for it to do any significant damage, and even then, bosses will hardly notice it. Good for clearing thrash mobs early on, and the slow effect always comes handy.

Not much to say about the lucid dream line, hardly unbalanced in any way.

Psionic touch is functionally EXACTLY like calculated strike. And by the way, dont waste points on its upgrade, it stinks big time in my opinion.

[The Rock-man]

Dont forget ALL "damage" skills get str bonus added!
Lucid Dream line is fine, balances out most of the weak points of dream.

Phantom strike is nice for getting to any nasty range mob (In game in just turn invisible and walk over and kill them, you can tell this via footprints).
Also when used it makes you invincible, nice for getting past a monster ulti move.

[Infares]

Also when used it makes you invincible, nice for getting past a monster ulti move.

Awesome. I love having tactical options. Seeing a boss rear up and then evading the attack by warping is hot sauce.

[brimanfu]

why not use onslaught on left mouse button, psi-touch on right button. every two or three hits with onslaught use psi-touch once since the charge doesn't drain

[bug]

why not use onslaught on left mouse button, psi-touch on right button. every two or three hits with onslaught use psi-touch once since the charge doesn't drain

I don't think Psi Touch charges if you're not actually using it.

[brimanfu]

like calc. strike its keeps count of hits till you reach four, then it uses the power

[Wyvern]

I am also thinking on Dream, but I think I'll buy the Spirit because now all the surprise has gone. The class and abilities, now I know them well. I think I'll be a Warlock-like character.


And this gives me the 100th Post!!!!!

:clap: :lol: :clap:

Here' also a nice picture to colour this page:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r163/WyvernLuso/Cerberus.jpg

Now, I think I'll stop playing 'till IT. Yeah, got things well done.

[bug]

like calc. strike its keeps count of hits till you reach four, then it uses the power

Yes, but three hits with onslaught won't charge psi touch.

[brimanfu]

while you charge onslaught, every so often right click to put a on charge on psi-touch. you'll be charging onslaught and slowly building up psi-touch.
then unleash with the fourth(psi-touch) hit. AND onslaught will still be charged.
it only takes a second to hit right mouse, it takes about 3-4 secs for onslaught to die down.

[bug]

while you charge onslaught, every so often right click to put a on charge on psi-touch. you'll be charging onslaught and slowly building up psi-touch.
then unleash with the fourth(psi-touch) hit. AND onslaught will still be charged.
it only takes a second to hit right mouse, it takes about 3-4 secs for onslaught to die down.

Hm, I see now. Rather complicated, but it can be done.

[brimanfu]

Just a way for extra dmg to be dealt. along with the total speed bonus, dmg bonus from lucid dream. sounds good to me

[dagoo7]

while you charge onslaught, every so often right click to put a on charge on psi-touch. you'll be charging onslaught and slowly building up psi-touch.
then unleash with the fourth(psi-touch) hit. AND onslaught will still be charged.
it only takes a second to hit right mouse, it takes about 3-4 secs for onslaught to die down.


Other posts on this forum (e.g., the one asking whether psi strike is working correctly) seem to indicate very clearly that psi touch charges do decay (and from the sound of it rather quicly). Somebody's obviously wrong here, who is it?

[The Rock-man]

They do decay what they are saying is hit a mob with onslaught then psi touch etc, if done fast enough (and with enough mobs) it doable. The main problem is having enough mobs around for it to work.

[Devoras]

I was thinking something in these lines for a maxed lvl`d (75) Templar:

TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Templar (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-0-1-1-0-1-0-0-6-6-6-1-0-8-6-8-6-6-0-1-6-0&m2=32-0-12-1-12-8-12-6-16-0-8-8-0-8-8-0-6-0-0-8-0-0)

Dev

[The Rock-man]

I was thinking something in these lines for a maxed lvl`d (75) Templar:

TitanCalc by stonedonkey - A Titan Quest Calculator - Templar (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-0-1-1-0-1-0-0-6-6-6-1-0-8-6-8-6-6-0-1-6-0&m2=32-0-12-1-12-8-12-6-16-0-8-8-0-8-8-0-6-0-0-8-0-0)

Dev

This build be better; Linky (http://www.titancalc.com/TitanCalc.asp?mastery=Templar&master1=5&master2=9&m1=32-0-1-1-6-1-1-0-6-6-6-1-6-1-6-8-6-6-12-1-6-0-0&m2=32-0-12-0-12-8-12-6-16-0-8-0-0-4-0-1-6-0-0-0-12-0-0)