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Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 08:08 AM
The game is out, so I'm free to answer questions and talk about the game :)

I'll use this first post to try and clear up some questions I've seen asked several times that didn't already get a clear answer. Hopefully these will help. If you have others, just ask. No guarantees I'll know the answer though!

I'm sticking this in the spoiler forum, since there's no explicit spoiler tag, and some of this material may touch on stuff people don't want to know just yet. You have been warned!

I'll update these posts as questions are asked and answered, or if information is corrected by the devs.

Visit this page for all your skill calculation needs: http://www.titancalc.com/

Attributes

In most cases, attributes that boost damage affect any source of that damage, weapon, staff, bow, many skills, etc. Attributes do NOT boost +flat modifiers from equipment or skills. Str does not boost the Physical damage from Earth or Dream, nor does Dex help the piercing damage from Scatter Shot. Int DOES help Elemental spell damage.

Strength:
Increases Physical damage dealt. At lower levels, the absolute bonus generally gives you a larger boost, particularly with attack speed modifying items, later in the game, the percentage boost can become very substantial, especially in concert with other damage modifying items. Because of the absorption property of armor, some physical damage can always get through armor (more on this below)


(physicalDamageDV*((strengthDV/500)+1))+(strengthDV*0.04)
Each 50 points of Strength adds 10% Physical damage and +2 flat Physical damage.

Dexterity:
Increases Piercing damage dealt. Dexterity gives a slightly smaller bonus per stat point than strength, but remember that Piercing damage completely ignores armor. Keep in mind that some enemies are Pierce resistant (particularly skeletons, who are very common Undead enemies)

Because most weapons deal a fairly small percentage of piercing damage, focusing heavily on Dexterity for damage is probably not wise unless you are using a Mastery that gives bonus Piercing damage - either Hunting or Rogue can add 50%+ Piercing damage easily. This means that Warfare/Rogue for dual wielding piercing swords, or Hunting/Warfare for Spears, or Hunting/Rogue are all 'obvious' natural combinations for heavy Pierce damage.

Dexterity also adds to OA/DA. If you are focusing specifically on offense or defense, items that directly increases OA/DA directly are going to give you more punch per point than Dexterity, but Dexterity gives both and boosts your Piercing damage. In any case, increased OA gives you a chance for critical hits and increases the potential severity of those critical hits. You need to have an OA much higher than your targets DA to score maximal (50% added) critical hits. Note that crits only apply to melee hits, and only boost the physical and pierce damage dealt. DA works in reverse, decreasing the chance for opponents to hit you, damage you, and crit you.


(pierceDamageDV * ((dexterityDV/1000)+1))+(dexterityDV*0.03)
Each 100 points of Dexterity adds 10% Piercing damage and roughly +1.95 flat Piercing damage

Note that Dexterity was changed from 65 points per 10% in TQ to 100 points per 10% in IT

Intelligence:
Increases Elemental damage dealt. Also increases Elemental damage over time. Elemental damage is Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Frostburn/Burn. Note that there is an entirely separate damage type (and resistance) known as 'Elemental' damage (literally, just flat Elemental damage). This damage type is very rare however, only a few items give it as a damage bonus. A few items do give explicit resistance to it, and in the case of resistance, it DOES add to normal Elemental resistances.

Armor has no effect on Elemental damage, only resistances help against it. To the best of my knowledge, there are no immune monsters to ANY basic damage type (Elemental/Physical/Pierce) anywhere in the game, though there ARE creatures with very high resists to specific damage types.

Intelligence also increases base Energy regen, and allows you to wear 'Mage' class armor, necessary if you're going to get a high Energy regen rate later in the game, as all Mage armor comes with built in +% Energy regen mods - note that this is only really necessary for characters that depend on Energy to deal damage. Most hybrid characters can get by with Energy potion usage.

Because increasing your Elemental damage output requires a fairly heavy investment in Intelligence, you need to consider if it is worth investing in for as a Hybrid character. You may get a better return on investment from Strength (flat physical) or Dex (flat Piercing PLUS OA/DA bonuses). However, it is worth noting that point for point, Piercing OR Elemental are likely to deal more damage to most creatures than Physical is (in most cases).




(elementalDamageDV * ((intelligenceDV / 650) + 1)) + (intelligenceDV*0.025)
Each 65 points of Intelligence adds 10% Elemental damage, and roughly 1.625 flat Elemental damage (I'm not certain how far out TQ keeps the decimal)


elementalDamageDV * ((intelligenceDV / 500) + 1)
Each 50 points of Intelligence adds 10% to Elemental duration damage, spread evenly over the duration (yes, you get a bigger bonus to Burn/Frostburn/Electrical Burn!)

Combat Details

Face smashing, ancient Greek style

Ok so, how do weapons actually interact with armor?

Well first off, when you get hit by a monster, a location on your character is randomly chosen, weighted between the various spots on your body. 40% of hits go to your chest armor. Each other body spot has a 20% chance to be hit. Yes, this means that walking around with low armor in one body spot can occasionally result in hard hits.

Next, any physical damage taken up to the armor value of your armor is reduced. Mastery skills that add bonus armor add it to ALL locations (handy). Any damage in excess of the armor value in a given location is taken fully by your character.

Here's the part that isn't at all immediately apparent: Physical damage reduced by armor is reduced by 66%. That's right, armor does NOT fully soak damage. Also, Pierce damage completely ignores armor.

This property is known as 'Armor Absorption', and if you check the skill trees, you'll notice that several skills can boost this 66% Armor Absorption value, greatly increasing the power of equipped armor (Defense, of course, has a tier 1 skill that can raise this modifier).

Think of armor as 'physical resistance', in the same way that resists lower but do not fully eliminate non physical damage (indeed, all resists are capped at 80% in any case), armor can soften damage taken, but not eliminate it fully.

Stonewalling

However, there is one last line of defense against physical attacks, and that is a shield.

Shields are highly potent defensive tools, because a) they can block both melee and ranged attacks and b) they block their soak amount FULLY. This makes shields very powerful defensive tools.

All shields have a 'recast' block timer of 3 seconds, before other modifiers

Shields do have a cooldown time before they can block another attack, preventing you from sponging up every attack that comes your way (though Defense, again, has a modifier that can reduce this shield block time, and there is a Charm that can help here too).

Additionally, Shield damage reduction is done AFTER resists are taken into account (in other words, it's highly likely that if you have high armor/pierce resistance, the shield is going to stop the hit completely)

Couldn't hit a Cyclops in a barrel

These notes about OA ONLY apply to melee! Ranged attacks and staff attacks always hit, never crit. DA works for anyone against melee critters of course.

This info is dated, see below in the last post for a link to a table with precise OA/DA calculations

The way OA and DA compare, with even values, you have a 100% chance of hitting your target. The scale is very soft, so missing is rarely an issue. Of greater interest is the critical calculations. Consider this information suspect, since I don't have direct verification :P

Going by the equations in the database, each 100 points of OA over your target's DA gives you a chance to hit the next 10% tier of critical hits. That is, if your OA is 150 and your targets is 50, you have a chance of scoring a 110% hit. 250/50, 120% hit, and so on. Note that these crits cap out at 150% damage.

You can't see these values in the game (though medierra indicated he was looking at adding a display that compared your OA to the last target's DA that you hit, which would make this much easier to calculate), so the only way to get a feel for how your OA is doing relative to your opponents DA is to watch the critical hits (make sure to turn on the critical hit display in the options menu).

If you are scoring frequent critical hits, your Dex + your OA bonuses are probably sufficient. Conversely, if you are seeing frequent red numbers, you should think about raising either your Dex, or getting gear with +DA modifiers. Note that some enemies (say, Zombies) have lower DA than normal - generally big slow targets do. On the other hand, fast vicious enemies (say, Mantids) often have comparatively high OA, resulting in more critical hits.

In any case, since you can't see the numbers directly, it's best to simply decide if you want to focus on OA or DA, and skew your gear (and possibly your attributes) in that direction. If it would be beneficial to your character based on your Mastery selections, focus on OA or DA, otherwise you may not need to worry about them (beyond enough DA to avoid constant crushing critical hits in the higher difficulty levels)

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 08:09 AM
Singing with blades

Dual wielding seems to be a cause of enormous confusion, so a few points

First, while yes, the Dual Wield ability itself only gives a small chance to trigger, this isn't quite the whole story. The Dual Wield ability is giving a chance for BOTH weapons to hit at the same time, dealing full damage, modified by your abilities, each with a chance to score a critical hit.

The rest of the time, your hands randomly attack, with a 50/50 chance of either hand swinging (they do not alternate, it's random - you can try it yourself, stand still with Onslaught on your rmb and hold it down, watching the swinging pattern - you can even see Dual Wield/Cross Cut/Tumult triggering).

Your attack speed is averaged between the two weapons you have equipped, so if you have a very fast sword in one hand and add a slow club in the other, your attack speed will drop (causing a resultant decrease in DPS).

Keep in mind that the visible average damage/DPS/attack speed display isn't entirely accurate when it comes to figuring Dual Wield damage, because of the element of chance involved.

Another important point to Dual Wielding - as you are giving up a shield, the return in offensive power is substantial. First, you can wield two weapons, and this gives you access to powerful offensive modifiers that affect BOTH weapons. Have a weapon in your offhand with +50% attack speed and +30% physical damage? Both weapons get those bonuses. Further, because you can modify both weapons with Charms and Relics that can only be applied to weapons, you are getting an even larger offensive bonus.

A Dervish of Fury

Your basic attack calculation for damage dealt is fairly simple. Take your weapon damage, find the average, add any modifiers to physical damage, pile up all the mods and add them together, then take the Piercing %, convert from Physical to Pierce damage, pile up all the Piercing mods, then take any Elemental or other damage type damage, and (yes, again), pile up on all the mods on it. Once this is done, your target is smashed with X Physical, Y Piercing, Z Elemental/Bleed/Poison/etc damage. They get their armor and resists to decrease the damage, and finally their health is reduced (and possibly, keeps reducing, if you had dot damage in there).

All of that is pretty straightforward, and raising those modifiers directly increases your average damage dealt. This is important, because rather than worrying about if you're dealing 500 damage per hit, or 550 damage per hit, what is often more important is the answer to a simple question: "How many hits does it take for me to kill a monster?"

And that's where attack speed comes in. Unless you can get your average damage to the point where all monsters are dying in a single hit, how fast you deal damage can sometimes be more important than how much damage you deal.

Think of attack speed as a global modifier to all of your damage dealt. At 200% attack speed, you are inflicting twice as much damage in the same period of time, and this is where the Damage Per Second display comes from.

All weapons have a certain basic attack speed (some variance from the baseline 100% value). This value is modified by any Attack Speed or Total Speed modifiers affecting your character.

Theis would be pretty straightforward, with attack speed having an important, but not overpowering influence on your damage, if it wasn't for two facts: First, your attack speed affects the actual animation time of your attacks, which influences how quickly you can deal damage and then disengage from melee (extremely important for ranged characters for one thing, since melee is usually a bad place for them to be). Second, and of greater importance; skills that have a % chance to trigger are NOT scaled to your attack speed.

That is, if you have a 10% chance to deal 50% more damage per hit, that chance is not on a sliding scale 'balanced' to your attack speed. It is ALWAYS 10%. And this means that attack speed can have a much greater impact on your overall damage output than it may first appear. Prize items that increase your attack speed if your character has many % based abilities that trigger when you attack!

Speed Caps

Player minimum speed is capped at 60%. Attack speed is capped at 50% minimum, 222% maximum (199% for dual wield), run speed is capped at 166%. Player minimum run speed is capped at 50% in Normal, 40% in Epic, 30% in Legendary (what, you thought it would get easier?).

Monster minimum speed is capped at 20% in Normal, then 30% in Epic and 40% in Legendary. Boss monster minimum speed is capped at 50%

There are a few types of speed in the game. There are three separate speed attributes: Attack, Cast, and Run. Many items only modify one of the three. Items that modify them all tend to use the term 'Total Speed', as do a few skills that give full speed bonuses. I believe there are a few cases where this is inconsistent however, and the skill may say 'Speed' instead of 'Total Speed' explicitly, but I believe those are still modifying all three speed types.

Resistances

Player resists are capped at 80%, and penalized by 40% in Epic, 100% in Legendary

Modifiers

The general rules of thumb for 'does this skill affect that other skill or weapon' are fairly simple.

If a skill is passive, it affects everything you do
If a skill is an activated buff or a constant aura, it affects everything you do (and potentially everything your teammates or pets do)
If a skill is a modifier for a base skill, it ONLY affects that skill.

A note for modders

I figured those of you working on Custom Quests might find this to be of interest: Check this record records\game\combatequations.dbr (just insert that directly into Import Record, no need to search for it manually), and you can then change all of the above formulas! There are also many other base game mechanic formulas that can be changed, including critical hit thresholds, hit location percentages, experience formulas, and others. Check records\game\gameengine.dbr and records\game\gamerules.dbr - and there are more besides

Enabling PVP!

This cat is out of the bag from the lead designer, so in it goes :D
Add /pvp to your launch shortcut to enable PvP in multiplayer
eg, "C:\Program Files\THQ\Titan Quest\Titan Quest.exe" /pvp

Only PvP enabled servers will show up in the multiplayer list, and you need to have it enabled yourself to join. You can fight anyone not in your group.

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 08:09 AM
The beasts have claws and teeth, but you? You have fire, you have Zeus like bolts...

Following is a braindump and infodump on various aspects of the game. Some of this is rather scattershot, because it consists of various questions that I asked over time, some from my own questions, some from fan questions that I relayed.

Modifiers to damage types from an item, an active buff (Call of the Wild), an active aura (Earth Enchantment, etc), a self buff (Blade Honing, etc), an unattached passive skill (Anatomy, Volativity, etc), and all three of your attributes affect ALL types of that damage. Generally, the only types of modifiers that do NOT affect all types of damage dealt are the passive modifiers to base skills, such as the damage bonuses to Ice Shard or Flame Surge.

That means your sword hit, your staff shot, your bow shot, your spell, whatever. If the damage types match up, they get boosted. +25% Fire damage from a ring? More staff damage if your staff deals fire damage. More fire damage from an axe with fire damage on it. More fire damage from a spell that deals fire damage. Same for any of the other modifiers. The only exceptions are the specific cases where Str or Dex do not boost some skill damages, or amplify the effects of +flat damage bonuses from equipment.

Curiously, this does mean that in a case where an item has more types of damage, it can potentially benefit from more modifiers. That is, a staff that deals fire damage, but has an affix giving it lightning damage gets the boost from Intelligence twice (once on each elemental damage type), and again from modifiers that boost lightning OR fire damage. The same goes for Piercing weapons. Assuming you're playing a melee character with high str and dex, a weapon with no Piercing % (Most clubs or an axes for example) loses out on the % and +flat Piercing damage bonuses from Dex, items, skills, etc.

Remember, +% modifiers require that damage type to already be present. +flat modifiers add that damage amount, and can be modified by ANY enhancement to that damage type.

+% Damage is PHYSICAL damage. Other +% damage types list the specific type (+% Bleed Damage, +% Poison Damage, +% Fire Damage, +% Life Leech, and so on)

Buffs that only affect you don't help your pets, but auras do (Earth Enchantment, Heart of Oak, etc). Pets do get stronger on Epic and Legendary! Note that traps and briar ward are 'pets' of a sort.

Damage Resistance items are applied to the incoming physical damage in an additive. That is, if you have 100% TOTAL Damage Resistance, it's going to be eliminating incoming Physical damage completely. afaik, this also applies to most other sources of direct damage reduction (particularly +% resist from monster types like Undead/Beast/etc!)

Another point related to Damage Resistance - Piercing damage is converted from Physical BEFORE your resists are calculated from the hit - that is, even if you reduce Physical damage a ton, the Piercing is still going to punch right through at full strength, unless you have high Piercing Resistance.

Damage over Time effects (Burn, Frostburn, Electrical Burn, Poison, Bleed) that are on your gear/skills are shown in the DPS and Average Damage display as though the first second of damage was being applied immediately on hit. This is not what is actually occuring, rather, the display is attempting to give you a rough idea of how much the added damage over time is actually adding. It still takes a second for that effective damage to occur (and any dot damage beyond that first second). Beware of comparing two weapons in terms of damage per hit if one has a high amount of dot damage!

Remember also that all five dot types have their damages boosted by +% dot damage mods, not by Int (in the case of the 'elemental' dot types).

On Crits - they affect Physical (and as a result, Piercing), but they do NOT show the Piercing damage in the yellow crit, only the Physical damage.

Vitality Damage, Life Leech, % Damage Converted to Health, and % Life Lost can be a bit confusing. First off, there is resistance to Vitality damage, then there is resistance to Life Leech damage, even though only one display shows up on your character screen. Additionally, Undead tend to be immune to all forms of Vitality Damage, Leech, AND % Life Lost effects (Doom Horn, Take Down, etc), and many bosses are resistant to the effects.

The +% Life Leech modifier, as with other similar % based modifiers ONLY works if you ALREADY have Life Leech - yes, it is possible to get +% Life Leech and have no Life Leech damage over time. Note that this modifier does NOT work on % Damage converted to health! It does NOT work on % Life Lost (Plague, Take Down, etc).

The % Damage converted to health mod takes all forms of 'flat' damage into account for the health conversion, but it does not include any form of damage over time.

Vitality damage is NOT boosted by Intelligence. And to be clear, ONLY Elemental (Fire, Cold, Lightning, in any form) is boosted by Intelligence. The main benefit to Vitality damage is that very few types of creatures (besides Undead of course) have any resistance to it at all.

When you have multiple chances to stun % or dodge % from gear/skills, the chances are added together. Note that Dodge Ranged is a separate modifier from Dodge, Dodge only works on Melee hits. Neither helps with spell attacks. Note that Dodged Ranged helps against many objects that Titan Quest treats as projectiles, including staff bolts and Eruption boulders.

% Damage Reduction from a specific creature type is incredibly powerful - it works in an additive manner! Get 100% Undead Damage Resistance and you take 0 damage! Not only that, it applies to ALL types of damage dealt by that creature type. Similarly, this works in reverse - bonus damage against a monster type adds to all types of damage dealt to that type of monster.

This one is sort of roundabout - I was asking a question about the order of damage dealt, in an effort to find out if the Health % reduction from Take Down occured before or after other damage. The answer was that it happens AFTER Physical, Pierce, Elemental, and Poison. That might point towards the damage type order, but it doesn't include Bleed, Vitality, or Energy Burn.

Every 100 points of Dexterity adds 10% to the chance to avoid projectiles (?!). This one really surprised me, it needs to be tested.

Enemy resistances CAN be driven negative, boosting your damage output. Note that enemies get a global resistance bonus in Epic/Legendary.

And for your random skill tidbit: Storm Nimbus has a 70% chance of dealing Cold damage, and a 30% chance of dealing Lightning damage.

Armor is only useful against Physical damage, Elemental and (particularly) Piercing resists are very important in Epic/Legendary.

Farming boss chests is good for unique items, but gives you no chance at all to find monster rare items. You MUST fight monsters of that specific type to find rare monster items, many of which have extremely powerful modifiers (and note that these modifiers DO increase in power in each difficulty level, so the same pair of Sentinel's Armbands from a Gorgon or the suit of Exotic Armor from a Tropical Spider in Normal are less powerful than those found in Legendary). On top of that, monster items CAN have affixes, including rare affixes, potentially a rare suffix and a rare prefix, and they CAN be modified by Relics/Charms, unlike uniques... just something to think about for those of you mercilessly farming Typhon on Legendary ;)

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 08:10 AM
More crunchy bits!

The Relic and Charm data in the guide wound up slightly dated, as they were changed (for the better!) late in development, adding a custom list of randomized modifiers for each complete Relic or Shard. Following is a list of the modifier pools that any given Relic or Shard can pull from.

Monster Charm Completion Bonuses

Bat Fang % Phys Damage, Fire Damage, % Damage to Demons, Phys Damage, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Boar's Hide Protection, Resist Cold, Resist Pierce, DA, % Protection

Pristine Plumage DA, Protection, Dex, OA, Resist Poison

Turtle Shell Resist Pierce, Life, Str, % Protection, DA, Str

Hag's Skin Protection, Resist Fire, Dex, Resist Pierce, DA, % Protection

Lupine Claw % Damage, Pierce Damage, % Damage to Demons, Attack Speed, Phys Damage, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Rigid Carapace Resist Fire, Resist Stun, Resist Pierce, Life, Str, % Protection, DA

Vile Ichor OA, Stun, Reduce Protect, Poison Damage, Reduce Attack Speed

Peng Claw % Damage, Pierce Damage, Attack Speed, Dex, Reduce Protection, Phys Damage, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Raptor Tooth % Damage, Pierce Damage, Attack Speed, OA, Str, Reduce Protection, Phys Damage, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Saber Claw % Damage, Pierce Damage, Attack Speed, % Bleed, OA, Phys Damage, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, Attack Speed

Viny Growth Protection, Life, Regen Life, Resist Pierce, DA, % Protection

Yeti Fur Protection, Resist Cold, Str, DA, % Protection, Life

Demon's Blood Resist Stun, Resist Fire, Resist Elemental, % Damage to Demons, Resist Life, DA

Diseased Plumage % Poison, Protection, Dex, DA, OA

Mechanical Parts Protection, Str, Dex, OA, DA, % Protection

Spectral Matter % Energy burn, Int, % Damage to Undead, Energy, Leech Energy

Venom Sac OA, Stun, Reduce Protect, Poison Damage, Reduce Attack Speed, % Poison


Relic Shard Completion Bonuses

Greece

Archimedes' Mirror Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Resist Lightning, Resist Pierce, Resist Poison, Life, Str, Pierce retaliation, % Protection, DA, Str, Life Leech retaliation

Artemis' Bowstring % Damage, Poison Damage, Phys Damage, Reduce Attack Speed, Dex, OA, Attack Speed, Pierce Damage

Dionysus' Wineskin DA, Life, Str, Stun, % Protection, Resist Cold

Golden Fleece Int, Cooldown Reducetion, DA, Life, Resist Lightning, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Energy, Resist Elemental

Hecate's Crescent Int, Cooldown Reducetion, Leech Energy, Resist Lightning, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Energy, Resist Elemental

Herakles' Might % Damage, Protection, Reduce Protection, Resist Pierce, DA, Life, % Str, Stun, Reduce Attack Speed, Str, OA

Prometheus' Flame % Damage, Fire Damage, % Fire, % Damage to Demons, Phys Damage, Resist Fire, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Valor of Achilles % Damage, Dex, Reduce Protection, Phys Damage, Stun, Reduce Attack Speed, Str, OA, Attack Speed

Zeus' Thunderbolt % Damage, Cold Damage, Lightning Damage, % Lightning, Phys Damage, Stun, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, Dex, OA, Attack Speed

Egypt

Amun Ra's Glory Life, Int, Protection, Resist Lightning, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Energy, Resist Elemental

Ankh of Isis Life, Leech Energy, Resist Lightning, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Energy, Resist Elemental

Anubis' Wrath % Damage, Leech Life, Fire Damage, % Damage to Demons, % Damage to Undead, Phys Damage, Stun, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Djed of Osiris % Damage, Leech Life, Fire Damage, % Damage to Demons, % Damage to Undead, Phys Damage, Stun, Leech Energy, Reduce Attack Speed, OA, Attack Speed

Set's Betrayal % Bleed, Protection, Int, Dex, DA, OA, Leech Life

Udjat of Horus Protection, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Resist Lightning, Resist Pierce, Resist Poison, DA, % Protection

China

Code of Hammurabi % Int, Cooldown Reducetion, Resist Lightning, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Energy, Resist Elemental

Domain of the Dragon Kings Life, Protection, % Protection, Dex, Regen Life, Energy, Resist Elemental

Guan Yu's Grace DA, Attack Speed, Protection, Dex, Movement Speed, Pierce Resist

Jade Emperor's Serenity Life, Int, Protection, % Protection, Resist Lightning, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Energy, Resist Elemental

Li Nezha's Guile DA, Attack Speed, Protection, Dex, Movement Speed, Resist Pierce

Monkey King's Trickery DA, Protection, Dex, movement Speed, Int, Resist Pierce

Shen Nong's Dark Medicine % Damage, % Poison, Phys Damage, Stun, Reduce Attack Speed, OA

Yen Lo Wang's Bloodletting % Damage, Leech Life, Fire Damage, % Damage to Demons, % Damage to Undead, Phys Damage, Stun, Reduce Attack Speed, OA

Shrine Data

The Energizing Shrine is located in the Typhon fight, the 'Greece1/2' locations are before/after Megara.

These shrines are the same throughout the game:

Battle Shrine grants: +100% physical dmg; +75% elemental dmg; +60% attack speed; +5% movement speed. Duration: 60 sec

Shrine of Healing instantly refills health

Regeneration Shrine regens health/mana at 7% per second (8 meter radius). Duration = 40 sec

Shrine of Experience increases experience gained by 50%. Duration: 60 sec

Energizing Shrine increases energy regen rate by 800%


These shrines get more powerful as you progress through the game:

Frostbite: cold/slowing per second, for 6 seconds. Total speed slowing = 75%. Duration = 60 sec.

Thorns: bleeding dmg per second, for 3 seconds. Duration = 60 sec

Mastery: bonus to all skills. Energy cost reduction = 25%. Duration = 60 sec


Shrine Type Greece1 Greece2 Egypt Orient EGreece EEgypt EOrient LGreece LEgypt LOrient TyphN TyphE TyphL
Frostbite Shrine 8 15 20 25 33 40 45 50 55 60 6 17 31
Shrine of Thorns 11 17 24 32 47 53 67 86 93 106 13 35 65
Shrine of Mastery 4 4 6 6 8 8 8 10 10 10 n/a n/a n/a

Monster scaling info

You'll probably need to copy this out to get it lined up cleanly


Diff #OfPlayers %Physdmg %pierce %allother %physresist primaryresists 2ndaryresist str/dex/int %str/dex/int life %life %mana %mv %atkspd %Hregen OA/DA %OA/DA

Normal 1 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 -10 0 0 0
Normal 2 5 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 5 20 0 14 -10 0 0 0
Normal 3 10 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 40 0 14 -10 0 0 0
Normal 4 15 10 15 0 0 0 0 0 15 60 0 14 -10 0 0 0
Normal 5 20 13 20 0 0 0 0 0 20 80 0 14 -10 0 0 0
Normal 6 25 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 25 100 0 14 -10 0 0 0
Epic 1 100 53 100 15 30 15 50 15 200 150 100 20 0 50 50 15
Epic 2 105 55 105 15 30 15 50 15 210 155 100 20 0 50 50 15
Epic 3 110 58 110 15 30 15 50 15 220 160 100 20 0 50 50 15
Epic 4 115 60 115 15 30 15 50 15 230 165 100 20 0 50 50 15
Epic 5 120 63 120 15 30 15 50 15 240 170 100 20 0 50 50 15
Epic 6 125 50 125 15 30 15 50 15 250 175 100 20 0 50 50 15
Legen. 1 200 53 100 30 50 30 100 30 300 300 200 26 10 100 100 20
Legen. 2 205 55 105 30 50 30 100 30 310 305 200 26 10 100 100 20
Legen. 3 210 58 110 30 50 30 100 30 320 310 200 26 10 100 100 20
Legen. 4 215 60 115 30 50 30 100 30 330 315 200 26 10 100 100 20
Legen. 5 220 63 120 30 50 30 100 30 340 320 200 26 10 100 100 20
Legen. 6 225 63 125 30 50 30 100 30 350 325 200 26 10 100 100 20


Potion Data

Just some quick numbers on how much Potions restore. Since you can 'preload' a Health potion before a fight, you can burn one before you start fighting a tough pack of enemies or a boss, and the regen portion of the Health potion should still be running by the time the Potion timer refreshes, allowing you to enter the fight with regen still running.


% of total regained (instant) flat amount regained
Lesser Health Potion 15 300
Health Potion 15 500
Greater Health Potion 15 650
Grand Health Potion 15 800
Superior Health Potion 15 1000
Divine Health Potion 15 1200

Lesser Energy Potion 50 0
Energy Potion 60 0
Greater Energy Potion 70 0
Grand Energy Potion 80 0
Superior Energy Potion 90 0
Divine Energy Potion 100 0

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 08:11 AM
reserved for great justice

great justice has arrived (shhhhh!)

these are small, short, and not compiled fully yet. they are probably also not fully tested. in other words, don't blame me if you burn yourself on the coffee (did the greeks drink coffee? I don't think so)

Attributes and Modifiers:

DA and OA: The gist of it is that DA provides more benefit per point in terms of reducing damage than OA does to raise your damage. Both are quite useful however. Related is the point that high DA values become near physically immune even in Legendary because the DA penalty to attackers damage is applied BEFORE all of your defenses/shield block/etc.

And in an effort to confuse you about some of the more obscure damage types, here's a few points:

+% lightning/fire/cold do NOT boost the dot elemental damages (burn/frostburn/electrical burn). Only Intelligence and +% burn/frostburn/electrical burn damage modifiers help.

Life Leech is a SPECIFIC damage type, dealt over time. It IS boosted by +% Life Leech. It is resisted by Life Leech resistance on some monsters, not by Vitality resistance.

Vitality damage, as mentioned, is a specific damage type that is not boosted by Int. It is boosted by +% Vitality damage and resisted by Vitality resistance.

Vitality Decay is simply Vitality damage in dot form, resisted by Vitality resistance.

% reduction to Health is ALSO Vitality damage. It is resisted BOTH by Vitality Resistance AND by the special resists that bosses have. It is NOT boosted +% Vitality damage.

% Attack Damage Converted to Health takes a % of ALL of your base, flat, non dot damage and adds it to your health. Any type of damage - Physical, Pierce, Vitality, Elemental, etc. It is resisted by the enemies Life Leech resistance. It is NOT affected by +% Life Leech.

Of the two health draining modifiers (Life Leech and %Attack to Health convert), the %Attack mod is generally easier to use for quickly regaining health through hits. Life Leech can be helpful if you have a means of spreading it across multiple targets that will then be drained by the leeching to restore your health.

Damage Absorbtion is applied in a multiplicative manner after other resistances and defenses are taken into account. It can soak any type of damage, making it very powerful defensively.

Skills:

Hamstring, Pulverise, Shield Smash and items that appear to be reducing FLAT Defensive Ability/Offensive Ability are in fact reducing it as a PERCENTAGE. Even nastier, Hamstring appears to be slightly bugged, in that the penalty it is applying stacks twice. End result? Two hits with Hamstring maxed on your character dices a monsters DA to 10%, virtually guaranteeing a string of max damage crits from you.

It is very likely that these effects are a bug, but they are as yet untouched by the fan patch, so feel free to abuse them or avoid them at your whim. This is also the reason any enemies with Hamstring can deal heavy damage to even stacked DA characters.

Onslaught appears to deal its FULL damage on your FIRST hit, and actually stacks up to 2x the listed value - it is twice as powerful as it appears to be.

War Wind hits twice with spears, once with other weapons.

Items:

Shields block ALL TYPES of damage, not just physical. Crazy, right? They do not help against AoE attacks however...

When you attack with a Shield special move from the Defense tree, you're hitting with both your shield and your weapon at the same time.

Miscellany:

Elemental damage is 1/3 each of fire/cold/lightning. Skills that boost +% elemental will raise any elemental damage, but +flat elemental only benefits from 1/3 of a specific +% fire/lightning/cold modifier.

Numerous people in the community have worked on a large range of very helpful and informative posts. Be sure to check the stickies in the various gameplay and spoiler forums, you can find a lot of extremely helpful and up to date information there.

Handy Links:
Go here for a quick breakdown of all damage types and how they are boosted or resisted by whisk33: http://www.titanquest.net/forums/immortal-throne-spoilers/15941-dmg-type-resistances.html

This post by Kalyan provides a superb breakdown of how OA/DA scales: http://www.titanquest.net/forums/spoilers/19785-melee-attack-mechanics-oa-da-criticals.html

There is now a substantial effort by several dedicated fans to create a fan patch for TQ: IT. You can find the thread here at: http://www.titanquest.net/forums/modifications-editor/22442-bugs-fixes-unofficial-patch.html

And the webpage and bugtracker at http://tqitfanpatch.com/index.php

Many thanks to Xaece, Kalyan, Viper_Sweden, Whisk33, apocalypse80, and many others for keeping the torch of knowledge burning for the years since TQ was released.

Frag
06-27-2006, 08:16 AM
You rock, P.M.

Care to explain attack speed? Such as how increases affect overall/base dps, if there is a cap, what the formula is?

Cheers,
~Frag :cool:

Ragefist
06-27-2006, 08:58 AM
Thanks much for all the info! Your posts have cleared up a number of things and the game looks more detailed than I had thought... which is good.

I had no idea hits were directed at specific armor. This is good and means a melee character may not be so quick to use any caster gear.

leth
06-27-2006, 10:19 AM
You rock so much P.M!!! Now if you can work your magic and make amazon ship my darn TQ strat guide I would be much appreciated :)

Really though, could you please explain more about resistances, and items that adds both % dmg and a flat dmg?

In particular, say if I have frostbite, which slows the enemy. Does the dmg and the slow part get resisted separately or are they resisted all or nothing style?

Also, weapons sometimes have stat like

10-20 fire dmg

+10%fire dmg
6 ice dmg

What is the actuall dmg of the staff?

thanks

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 10:26 AM
Slow has nothing to do with frost resist, it's not an inherent property of cold, but a separate attribute entirely (though it is tied to Ice Shards, and maybe a few other cold items - Frostbite shrines have slow, and there's a rare prefix that has cold damage and slow). There is no resistance to it, afaik - I've used it on every boss in the game

10-20 fire damage, average 15 fire, +10%, 16.5 fire damage +6 ice damage, 16.5 fire damage, 6 ice damage, 21.5 total damage ignoring resists

Though that specific modifier you mentioned is fire/frost/shocking, a rare suffix that adds both a +% element, and a flat amount of that damage type. As far as I know, flat amounts are added up BEFORE percentage modifiers are applied (to give you the highest possible damage, eg, 20+20%+2 would give 24, but 20+2+20% would give 24.4)

leth
06-27-2006, 10:40 AM
Uhh thanks for the clarification. Yeah I found couple rare staffs with interesting stats like that. One of them had life leech too, which I assume is not added to the overall dmg right?

I had a staff that is a ice based staff, but also does burn dmg...

Rhym
06-27-2006, 10:40 AM
I LOVE YOU and i want to have your manbabies! :clap:

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 10:41 AM
Depends, life leech over x time is added, % damage converted to health is just that, and +% life leech is a modifier to existing leech damage (that is, just like +% elemental damage, you need to have some leech damage in place already for it to do anything)

edit: there's also a fairly rare +%leech duration mod floating around out there also, come to think of it

edit again: now that I think about it, % damage converted to health isn't that simple, since there are two things I don't know about it - one, does +% life leech affect it, and two, precisely what 'attack damage' is converted. If you hit with a weapon that's dealing physical, pierce, elemental, bleed, and poison, I'm not sure if ALL of the damage is totaled and then converted to health gain, or only the physical portion

chooch709
06-27-2006, 10:58 AM
Great post. :cool:

Killa John
06-27-2006, 11:00 AM
So P.M., why do we need to buy your guide? :D

Your the man ... :rockon:

Marine OKeefe
06-27-2006, 11:05 AM
Thanks alot for this info.

Fyren
06-27-2006, 11:08 AM
has the fps problem been fixed?. All my fellow dual core buddies over in technical are saying retail didnt' fix anything. That is very disheartning if its true..

Marine OKeefe
06-27-2006, 11:10 AM
This isnt a thread for FPS problems and what "FPS problem" are you talking about exactly?

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 11:12 AM
So P.M., why do we need to buy your guide? :D

Haha, well, a couple of points there

First, it's not 'my guide' - very important - I wasn't even the primary author, I was brought in to help David Cassady on some aspects of it (I didn't write the main story/quest portion), and beyond that, guides are never the work of just one person. My editor, the design team, input from the folks at Iron Lore and THQ, and so on. It's a much bigger process than scribbling down some text and handing it in to be printed out. Add to that the fun of trying to hit a moving target of a game still in development before it ships.

Second, as I said in my very post here on the forums, I'm not here to shill the guide. I did make a conscious decision to post as 'myself' here though, consider it an experiment :P I didn't ask for a special tag either, I think the mods conspired and stuck it on me ;)

And last, think of this as 'online' support for the guide and the game. The flat reality is that print media is outdated the second it's on the page, and that has always been a source of rather intense frustration to me when it comes to writing strategy guides. Moreso for games that I know will have an online community of any size, and obviously, a very sticky issue when it comes to MMOs of any stripe.

But in any case, it's my attempt to support the guide and the game past the print deadline. I've actually done this before with other games, but not quite so 'overtly' as I am here. Give it a few days, and I'll be getting some flack for something written in the guide instead of praise for posts here :P Though honestly, that bothers me less than people who might get the guide and not have access to info online.

Anyway, none of that has anything to do with Titan Quest q&a, keep em coming folks!

Roland
06-27-2006, 11:18 AM
GREAT JOB P.M. :clap:

Thank you for the info!

-------------------------------

leth
06-27-2006, 11:26 AM
More question for ya.

1) How does the pet scale exactly to the different difficulty levels? Do they get the same multiplier that the monsters get?

2) Does skills that have a fixed dmg amount scale to higher difficulties at all?

2) Merchant item spawning system. What triggers the "refresh" of merchant inventories? Are the items specific to the merchant? (i.e. you can only get certain armor from certain merchant) Are there merchant specific items? How is the "refreshing" done? It seems to me that when refresh happens, pretty much all of the items are "refreshed", esp. the nicer once that I didn't have the money to buy previously :(

thanks much

Darth Executor
06-27-2006, 11:29 AM
So armor is useless if the monster's damage is higher than the armor value?

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 11:30 AM
1) How does the pet scale exactly to the different difficulty levels?

2) Does skills that have a fixed dmg amount scale to higher difficulties at all?

2) Merchant item spawning system.


Don't know about the exact pet changes, other than to confirm that they do get stronger

Nope, but keep in mind that as long as they are Physical, Piercing, or Elemental damage, they'll continue to be modified by stats, which usually continue to increase. Also, for say, Bleed or Poison, you can usually find gear to increase them by some % amount, which scales a bit better than a flat increase.

But yes, that does mean some skills are less useful late in the game than early. Since you can retrain skills, it's not much of an issue though.

Leaving the area. You can just teleport from one vendor in one town to another and go shopping. And yes, if you're going item shopping, bring lots of cash. The only way to 'anchor' an item is to have a player remain with the vendor while you go round up the cash.


So armor is useless if the monster's damage is higher than the armor value?

No, it soaks up to the armor amount, any damage in excess goes through. If you get hit for 110 with 100 armor on your chest, you take 44 damage, not 110. This is what makes piercing so heinously nasty later in the game, archers on Epic and Legendary are bad news. Pile on that pierce resistance :P

Sven
06-27-2006, 11:34 AM
I am about to go out and buy the strategy guide.. but I was wondering, what is in it? (This might not be exactly on topic.. sorry)

Does it contain any info on game mechanics? Or is it mainly just a list of all quests and storyline? Does it deal with the editor any? Does it go through all the magical properties items can have?

Thanks (And again, sorry for going off topic)

leth
06-27-2006, 11:39 AM
Hehe, I am spending my lunch time not eating lunch but thinking of more question... so sad...

Anyway, when you said "pet get stronger" do you mean that they just get more hp/mp or do their abilities become better too. In particular I know you played a hunter/storm build (right?) how does the wisp improve? (it already has 99% chance avoiding dmg but I assume that in higher difficulty levels that percentage is actually lowered by some fixed amount right?)

Leech spells says it does vitality dmg, that is just a "type" of dmg right? I keep on thinking that there is some hidden "vitality" attribute that I am missing...

Yeah I found out the lack of "anchoring" for merchants the hard way... From what you said, it seems to me that items are indeed merchant specific right? And they improve as player gets higher in level too right?
(side note: you know the reviews that says that there are no good vendor items to buy, what are they smoking!? I have found better items on merchants, most of the time I cannot afford them tho... I for one, think that money is going to be a issue...)

Marine OKeefe
06-27-2006, 11:43 AM
Ive definitely had money issues in the Demo at least.

Reviewers usually smoke crack, by the way.

leth
06-27-2006, 11:43 AM
btw sven take a look at this post
http://www.titanquest.net/gameplay/613-hi-there-strategy-guide-author.html

that should give you a good idea of what the guide will have

Darth Executor
06-27-2006, 11:54 AM
No, it soaks up to the armor amount, any damage in excess goes through. If you get hit for 110 with 100 armor on your chest, you take 44 damage, not 110. This is what makes piercing so heinously nasty later in the game, archers on Epic and Legendary are bad news. Pile on that pierce resistance :P


So the formula (assuming no pierce damage or armor absorb modifier) is Monster Damage - Armor*.66?

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 11:54 AM
Hehe, I am spending my lunch time not eating lunch but thinking of more question... so sad...

Anyway, when you said "pet get stronger"

I keep on thinking that there is some hidden "vitality" attribute that I am missing...

From what you said, it seems to me that items are indeed merchant specific right? And they improve as player gets higher in level too right?


I'm waiting for my gf to go to lunch shortly myself, so I'll probably vanish for a bit ;)

Pets, like I said, I don't know the details. I think it was in the last set of questions I sent to the devs, so I might have a more detailed answer for that at some point. It's not something that is immediately apparent from in-game though, since you can't exactly see statistics at a glance for your pets, and I didn't spot it looking through the database. The wisp is a sturdy little fellow, on any difficulty. I never noticed any penalty to his dodging (that was actually added fairly late, which is a good thing :D). He can croak to massive aoe attacks, that's about it.

Oh, that reminds me, if you do have a specific question about a certain item/monster/mod, you can often find very detailed info using the Art Manager to access the database, just import a record that looks likely (they're fairly well organized), and then poke around. Often, a record will have links to other records, which can lead you down the trail to find specific info. I did this a few times myself to figure out the damage type on a specific bosses attack, that sort of thing.

Vitality is just a typeless 'magical' damage. It's not Elemental, it's not boosted by Int, and as a secondary resist, it's much more uncommon than other types of damage. Few enemies have resistance to it, and getting resistance to it yourself can be tough.

Items do indeed improve on merchants the farther you get into the game. Affixes have certain minimum levels before they'll start showing up on items, which means that you won't be seeing the very best modifiers until higher levels, and to get the best base items for those modifiers, you need to be shopping in Legendary (well, both kinds of shopping, one with gold, the other involving your axe and a monsters head)

rmkincaide
06-27-2006, 12:08 PM
Very nice post, Phillip Marcus. Thanks!

Phyrex
06-27-2006, 12:30 PM
Yes, awesome post. Helps a lot. :clap:

One question though:

You said elemental damage is a separate damage type. Does this mean that “+50% elemental damage” which Dark Covenant gives, only affects damage that is labeled *elemental* or does it simply include Fire/Cold/Lightning/Burn and Frostburn too? (and no poison)

Thanks.

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 01:01 PM
Oops, I probably made that more muddled

There are a few issues where skill/item labels probably aren't 100% clear, so I'm not helping with that

You'll know Elemental damage when you see it, offhand, I can only think of one 'normal' item affix that gives it (Prismatic amulets give global elemental resist, AND add a flat amount of straight Elemental damage)

In other cases, where you see +% Elemental damage, it modifies any sort of Elemental damage, I was speaking more of the explicit flat damage type 'Elemental'. I think it shows up on some uniques as well, and I can think of a few other places, though it's certainly not common

Marine OKeefe
06-27-2006, 01:03 PM
So, +Elemental Damage is just that and +%Elemental would be Fire/Cold+Shock?

yoshi74
06-27-2006, 01:06 PM
Going by the equations in the database, each 100 points of OA over your target's DA gives you a chance to hit the next 10% tier of critical hits. That is, if your OA is 150 and your targets is 50, you have a chance of scoring a 110% hit. 250/50, 120% hit, and so on.

I don't really understand this part. Does it mean that +100 points in OA give me a chance of doing 110% damage instead of 100%?
In the demo i had the impression that the chance to get a critical (red numbers over enemies) increase significantly. But the way you mention it seams (at least to me ;) ) that it only increases slightly the damage the critical hit does.

dannyc14
06-27-2006, 01:12 PM
Thanks, i have one question how much will the Guide cost

Reader81
06-27-2006, 01:17 PM
19.99 at EBgame.com and Amzon.com.

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 01:20 PM
So, +Elemental Damage is just that and +%Elemental would be Fire/Cold+Shock?

Yep, and you won't see +Elemental very often


I don't really understand this part. Does it mean that +100 points in OA give me a chance of doing 110% damage instead of 100%?
In the demo i had the impression that the chance to get a critical (red numbers over enemies) increase significantly. But the way you mention it seams (at least to me ) that it only increases slightly the damage the critical hit does.

Mind the disclaimer there, I'm not sure about the precise mechanics of this myself, and it's very difficult to verify without some in-game method of checking enemy DA.

In any case, red means YOU are getting crit :D Yellow is you critting the enemy. And yes, there is a sliding scale on crits, you need to exceed their DA by a fair amount to get a larger critical hit, the range is from 110% to 150% on a crit.

Probably the best way to test this would be to make an editor monster with some absurd amount of hp, then place some items with +100/200/300 etc OA, set the monsters DA to 50, armor to 0, make a weapon that deals 10 damage, and see what happens with each. I did something similar to see if dot damage from poison/bleed was dealing its first second of damage on hit (it isn't, incidently :P)

Prito
06-27-2006, 01:40 PM
Great information btw!

Now on to the questions!

1) Recast timers, is there a reason why they are chosen to be hidden? (As in not displayed ingame) Is the only way editing / modding doing some kinda tech-wizardry, and if so how? (hoping its easy accessable:errf: )

2) Are recast timer included in the strategy guide?

Cheers,
Prito

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 03:45 PM
Couldn't tell you, I was sort of surprised they weren't on the skill tooltip myself. You get a feel for them after awhile, I suppose the actual number doesn't matter much.

Nope, I'm actually working on a list to put online (here?) fairly soon (still waiting to hear back on a few more detailed queries, as I'd like to do one big batch update)

Also, for anyone just coming into this thread, please don't ask direct questions about the guide here, this is just for TQ gameplay questions

If you have more questions about the guide, please take them to this thread, thanks :)

http://www.titanquest.net/off-topic/1212-tq-guide-table-contents.html

Naithin
06-27-2006, 06:32 PM
Thanks for the information, Phillip! It is beyond appreciated, and learning there is in fact a /pvp toggle = <3

Especially in conjunction with the ability to edit combat formula's and the like.

Along these same lines though, are you aware of any Hardcore mode toggle? ie; 1 Life per Character.

Playing HC is definitely a large life extender for game like this, after having finished it through in normal mode once or twice, going through it HC with some mates just cannot be beaten. :)

If it isn't available as a game engine toggle, do you know whether the scripting portion of the mod tools are sufficient to create it for Custom Quests at least?

Again though, thank-you for your time and effort in this thread. It is appreciated. :)

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 06:40 PM
re: Hardcore, not that I know of, but keep in mind that your deaths are tracked on your character sheet. Hardcore is a state of mind and force of will anyway, if you don't have the capacity to delete your character with that 1 death marker on your character display, what are you doing playing HC in the first place? (roguelikes for life ;))

Ah scripting... There isn't really a 'scripting language' for TQ, the quest editor has some basic if/then functionality, with conditions and triggers, but you can't explicity code new functionality or behavior into the game (you'd need IL to release an a source SDK for the engine for that, since external scripts aren't supported directly by the game)

However, that said, I fully expect people to push the limits of the database editor, the map editor and the quest editor to the limits, likely in ways the devs never intended or thought of (isn't that always the case? there's a multiplayer mod for Oblivion floating around out there O_o)

Naithin
06-27-2006, 06:50 PM
Ah yes, I know that you /can/ do HC the 'manual' way, but it doesn't have quite the same feel to it. There is quite a difference to the psychology of it between knowing that as soon as you're dead, that's it, no more.. And having that slight room there for calling 'lag death' or something similar. Of course, this in part comes down to will as you said, but I'm talking that even if you delete it anyway even in such a case.. It's just.. different. I was hoping considering it would be such a relatively speaking easy toggle to enable - I'm not demanding they balance the game on it or spend any design time making sure it's possible to solo etc - that it would be implemented.

Nonetheless, even the PvP toggle alone is still great news. And as you say, people certainly do push engines in totally new directions once they get their mitts on 'em. :)

Phillip Marcus
06-27-2006, 06:54 PM
Honestly, I was sort of surprised there was no HC option, since it is such a simple gameplay mechanic. But there are reasons I'm sure. Perhaps down the road in a patch, just have to wait and see what the devs do.

Naithin
06-27-2006, 07:06 PM
Indeed. I am confident we will get it in some form later on down the track. I would of course prefer an official solution via a patch, but anything that works is fine. If the toggle was implemented, it would be fine to leave it to us to make Custom Quests to work with it. :)

Ohh, one thing that just came to mind.. It is my understanding that in retail, over a certain level you actually lose xp upon death. I assume amount lost is likely to be some function of your level, with it checked to block actual de-levelling.. But is this formula also included in one of the database files you mentioned?

If so, and if the check that prevented delevelling was actually in this formula rather than hardcoded, could be fun to set it to actually delevel you upon each death, as a sort of semi-hardcore mode. ;)

I realise that may be something of a 'PITA' question, so if you don't know off the top of your head without having to go delving that's fine, perhaps someone else would be willing to investigate til I can finally get my hands on a copy. Have it pre-ordered, just doesn't get here in New Zealand til at least the 30th.


As a slightly easier question, simply wanting some clarification on 'Retaliation' effects, for instance on the Heart of Frost storm skill. It simply means it impacts upon an enemy that has just struck you, correct? And if so, does it matter whether the enemy strike was melee/ranged/magical?

Prito
06-27-2006, 07:55 PM
/Raises hand

Another question from the eagerly crowd!

The lich king skill Wraith Shell has this description: "Allows the Liche King to diminish its corporeal presence making it less vulnerable to all types of damage."

Then at max lvl it says: 50 Energy Cost, 2 Active Energy Cost/Second, 70% Damage Absorption, 33% Damage Resistance

From what I understand and based on the description, 70 dmg absorption = against all dmg? And in addition 33 dmg resistance probably mean against physical?

If both are infact meant against physical dmg only, then what is the difference between dmg absorption and dmg resistance?

ucankurbaga
06-28-2006, 07:39 PM
Hey Philip, fantastic guide mate.

I would like to raise question about critical damage; (sorry if its asked before)

My average dmg is currently 257 and my dps is 337.

And when i crit the dmg shows between 250-300, it rarely goes up to 300+

Is this because of enemy armor? Shouldn't critical multiplier be like 2x of your normal damage at least? I mean thats why its called crit right :P

Xaece
06-28-2006, 09:38 PM
Hey P.M. Love your info so far.

But, heres some questions you I haven't seen asked nor answered.

The damage listed on Shields, that only applies for Shield Skills, right?

For Poisons and Bleed. If I'm attacking every 0.9 seconds, and have a 5 second duration Poison and 3 second duration Bleed. How does the damage work with that? Since it doesn't do its damage intially, does that mean my Poisons and Bleeds are being reset every hit? Or are they stacking up? If they do stack up, whats the stacking limit? If they do stack, how do they stack, does the damage stack up, or are the durations just added together?

Skills (and item modifiers) that are % chance of retaliation. Do these trigger when the enemy outright misses (i.e. Warfare Dodge)?, or block all of the damage (Shields, and defense mastery bonuses)?

I also didn't see any clarification on Piercing mods and such. Specifically, the Rogue Mastery tree. Blade Honing lists +% Piercing, Lethal Strike lists +% Piercing Damage. Now, am I to understand that +% Piercing converts the physical damage into Piercing damage, and +% Piercing Damage increases that Piercing damage?

Say, I have a dagger that deals 10 damage, and it has a base of 30% Piercing, so it'll deal 7 Phys and 3 Piercing. Adding a +20% Piercing from Blade Honing should make it 5 Phys and 5 Piercing them? (Excluding the +Piercing Damage on Blade Honing).

That's all I can think of so far. TIA!

EDIT: Heres a hard question for you as well! For Defense/Warfares. What happens when your secondary is Rogue, and Calculated Strike fires (the 4th shot), and a Dual-wield or Shield skill procs? Or can the DW/Shield proc on a Calculated Strike? o.O Hard to test, I know.

Sven
06-29-2006, 03:19 AM
Quick question... for + x% damage, does that increase elemental damage as well? (as in, it increases all damage) or just physical? And, for a weapon, would it increase the damage before or after the piercing % is calculated..

For example, 50 dmg 10% piercing, +100% dmg modifier
Would it be.. 50 x 2 = 100 dmg x10% = 10 piercing damage?
Or 50x 10% = 5 percing damage then 45x2 = 90 regular damage?

Thanks.

Phillip Marcus
06-29-2006, 11:08 AM
/Raises hand
From what I understand and based on the description, 70 dmg absorption = against all dmg? And in addition 33 dmg resistance probably mean against physical?

If both are infact meant against physical dmg only, then what is the difference between dmg absorption and dmg resistance?

The 33% Damage Resistance is indeed Physical - the general rule is that if something says just 'damage', it's talking about Physical damage, however, there are a few exceptions - Damage 'Reflection' works (or worked at least) on any type of attack. I checked the Lich's database record for Wraith Shell, but other than the clear indication that the 33% was Physical, I couldn't find an indicator if the absorption was all types or physical only.

Best way to test that would probably be to make a custom map that has a 'quest' set to trigger on map load that gives a pile of skill points and enough xp to get to level 8 - train the lich up to full, drop a few monsters on the map that do different damage types, and run around to see what happens when he gets hit.




My average dmg is currently 257 and my dps is 337.

And when i crit the dmg shows between 250-300, it rarely goes up to 300+

Is this because of enemy armor? Shouldn't critical multiplier be like 2x of your normal damage at least? I mean thats why its called crit right :P


Your DPS doesn't have anything to do with your crits, it's just your (estimated) damage over time. Only your average damage (damage per hit) matters for crits. Also, I believe crits only impact physical damage, while your average damage display shows all types of damage (including dot damage over one second). In any case, re-read the section in the original post on crits - they only go from 110% to 150%, and you need to have an OA far higher than your targets DA to get those maximal crits. And yes, on top of that, your damage is being reduced by armor.

Good example - with a displayed average damage of 1300, I was scoring crits with a Spear of 500-675 or so on various enemies in Act 1 of Legendary (or slow fatty enemies in Act 3), but it's not going to show any 'odd' damage types in that number in any case.




1. The damage listed on Shields, that only applies for Shield Skills, right?

2. For Poisons and Bleed...

3. Skills (and item modifiers) that are % chance of retaliation. Do these trigger when the enemy outright misses (i.e. Warfare Dodge)?, or block all of the damage (Shields, and defense mastery bonuses)?

4. I also didn't see any clarification on Piercing mods and such. Specifically, the Rogue Mastery tree. Blade Honing lists +% Piercing, Lethal Strike lists +% Piercing Damage. Now, am I to understand that +% Piercing converts the physical damage into Piercing damage, and +% Piercing Damage increases that Piercing damage?

5. Heres a hard question for you as well! For Defense/Warfares. What happens when your secondary is Rogue, and Calculated Strike fires (the 4th shot), and a Dual-wield or Shield skill procs? Or can the DW/Shield proc on a Calculated Strike? o.O Hard to test, I know.



1. Yep, also, most of the 'and a shield hit' skills strike with your weapon as well, and both hits can crit. Your shield also counts as a 'weapon' for various special attacks (eg, I can poison foes with Batter if I use Envenom)

2. There's a good post by medierra about dot stacking, it's pretty simple. Similar types stack up, new hits refresh the damage timer

http://www.titanquest.net/demo-gameplay/480-leeching-along.html#post6116

3. Good question - I can't recall this off the top of my head, one of my characters has several retaliatory abilities, and I can't remember if they triggered when the hit whiffed in the first place. I seem to recall a few cases where an arrow 'missed' my character (via dodge ranged) but storm surge still 'exploded' from my character. This could be tested with the editor as well. Copy an item over, add 100% dodge/dodge ranged to it, and put down a few pieces of retaliatory gear or skills on your char, then drop a test mob and see what happens.

4. As far as I know, all piercing mods simply add to piercing damage, they don't enhance the base pierce conversion percentage from any given weapon, and it may be just an unclear description.

Also, from eyeballing my damage display, it looks like Blade Honing is just adding the % to the piercing damage, not the piercing % conversion, because it increases the damage dealt (beyond the flat +piercing it adds, that is), and if it was just affecting the conversion, the damage wouldn't actually be increasing, only the ratio of physical/pierce damage dealt, with no impact on average damage beyond the flat +piercing added (not to mention that it would be insanely powerful ;))

You could test this as well though, by making a creature that has a very high armor absorption % (so that only piercing would pass through), set its hp to a fixed even amount (100, 1000, etc), make a weapon that deals a nice round number (say, 1000), then fiddle with the pierce modifiers to eyeball the damage dealt.

5. Not only does it work, Dual Wield tends to charge it up really quickly :D Of course, using it in concert with Onslaught requires a little button juggling, but you can do that too... I don't know if it'll hit every target from a Cross Cut/Tumult though, or only one randomly chosen. Sammy the Super Satyr was alone for my testing, I could drop a few clones in to see if the 'sparks' appear during a spin.



Quick question... for + x% damage, does that increase elemental damage as well? (as in, it increases all damage) or just physical? And, for a weapon, would it increase the damage before or after the piercing % is calculated..


+% Damage is just physical damage, if it's another type, it'll say explicitly (Elemental, Bleed, Cold, Poison, blah blah)

Physical + mods, then pierce conversion, then pierce + mods was how it was explained to me - I think the general rule is that most calculations are done in a manner that favors maximal damage output for the player (so % mods are done after +flat mods are applied, and so on)

Phillip Marcus
06-29-2006, 11:14 AM
Since you guys have a lot of test case questions, I think it might be worth putting together a sample 'testing grounds' custom map that could be downloaded.

Only problem is that there isn't really a one size fits all answer for a test map. When I want to do some testing of my own, I modify or import records as needed, and drop down custom creatures/items on a case by case basis (eg, when I was testing dot damage to see if the first second was applied instantly, I made a weapon that dealt 999 over 3, then made a mob with 333 hp to see if it'd croak instantly on the first hit, or when I want to test % based attack skills, I'll take Sammy the Satyr with 100000000 hp out and whack on him for awhile, since he's harmless, and so on).

There's already the editor guide out to show you how to get a custom map up and running, but maybe some sort of abbreviated guidelines, since it really is dead simple to make these test maps. All you need is one terrain block and a player spawn from editor.exe. From ArtManager.exe, import any records you want to modify (monsters, skills, or items), and then use Editor.exe to drop those modified monsters or items into the map (modified skills will be in place automatically). QuestEditor.exe can be used to make a quick 'cheat' to max out your characters attribute/skill/xp, allowing you to test any skills or attributes as needed.

Once you have those basics in place, it's just a matter of editing records to get the numbers in place for whatever test you want to run (as in the examples I gave above).

Something to think about anyway, it'd let you answer some questions faster (and probably more accurately) than I could in some cases.

Don't take that as discouragement from asking though! I'm happy to help, just throwing that out as another avenue of exploring the game mechanics.

Xaece
06-29-2006, 08:42 PM
Great info! Thanks for all the answers. I think why we're enjoying asking ya is because it'll stay on this forum for others to see and read. ;)

If we test things, and then don't leave a post about it, then no one can read up on the tests, etc.

Phillip Marcus
06-29-2006, 09:08 PM
Quite true, and it's not that I mind testing (or bugging the devs) about various esoteric questions directly, it's just that it obviously takes time, and I can't always do it (or in the case of the devs, they generally have better things to do :P)

I'm actually mulling over the test map idea though, because I do think it would be useful for quite a few people, and the editor really isn't hard to use once you learn a few basic steps to get a functional map running

In any case, like I said, I don't mind answering questions. And as I mentioned before (at least, I think I did), I've still got a few updates planned.

Also, people are still settling into the game at this point, just barely completing Normal and getting into Epic at the outside, from what I've seen so far. I expect even more queries will show up as people aim for Legendary completions and hardcore finishes.

Viperace
06-30-2006, 12:18 AM
"Physical + mods, then pierce conversion"

That means Pierce Damage is a subset of Physical Damage?

Physical damage can be divided into
1)Non-pierce (which can be absorbed by armor)
2)Pierce (ignore armor)

Right?

Sven
06-30-2006, 12:21 AM
Nother question, for fire enchantment and the storm melee dmg thing, when you dual wield and hit with both hands, is that effect applied to both weapons? So basically it gets doubled?

Xaece
06-30-2006, 07:29 AM
"Physical + mods, then pierce conversion"

That means Pierce Damage is a subset of Physical Damage?

Physical damage can be divided into
1)Non-pierce (which can be absorbed by armor)
2)Pierce (ignore armor)

Right?
Not quite. Piercing damage doens't get the benefit of crits. So, in a way its not physical damage at all. O.o

Phillip Marcus
06-30-2006, 09:07 AM
Nother question, for fire enchantment and the storm melee dmg thing, when you dual wield and hit with both hands, is that effect applied to both weapons? So basically it gets doubled?

Yep!

As for piercing and crits, I don't know - but that's a very east test to run, gimme a few minutes

edit: Yep, just Physical. Made a 100% piercing weapon and no crit damage ever showed up. Seems like they didn't want crits running away from them damage wise. They're still useful though, since it's essentially free damage once your OA is high enough

Andrew the Legit SP
06-30-2006, 09:21 AM
Thanks for answering all these technical questions, Philip.

I posted my question below yesterday, but since no one has touched it,
I'll just copy it into this thread:

------------------------------

My Warfare/Defense character just earned level 16 and has a few skill points to spend.

I love using War Horn/Doom Horn to stun and weaken groups, but I don't understand how the damage is applied.

Doom Horn takes off a percentage of each target's life.
But is that calculated based on their total life (preferable)
or their current life (as in Diablo's crushing blow) ?

If the former, then I can wait until I get a boss down to 25% life
and then finish him off with DH.

If the latter, then I have to use DH at the very start of each fight
and hope the boss doesn't heal. I mention this because I just got
past the Gorgon sisters and the one named "Sssonth" (sp?)
drove me nuts with her life steal every time I got her down to a sliver.

Phillip Marcus
06-30-2006, 09:40 AM
Current, not max. Also, the damage type is considered to be a form of vitality/life leech damage, so a lot of enemies (ye olde undead) and some bosses are immune/resistant to it. Curiously, looking at the skill record, I spotted a Total Resistance reduction, something that isn't noted in the skill description.

Two other points - I checked the Lich's Wraith Shell against a pack of casters, and took very little damage, so it appears that it is any type of damage

Last, I'm now utterly confused about crits :P With a 1 damage weapon and ~+500 or so oa, I was hitting for up to 8. Even accounting for the 10% bonus and +2 flat damage from a base starting 50 str, that still doesn't make up for the other damage, and I didn't have any other skills running. Have to ask Medierra about the crit system again I guess.

edit: @#$@#$@$# char had modded attributes, durh, I'm doing more testing :P

Andrew the Legit SP
06-30-2006, 09:58 AM
Thanks for the answers, Philip. I guess I'll still be maxing out
Doom Horn, but it won't be the boss-slayer I was hoping for.
Although that "total resistance" debuff is intriging...

My Conqueror still needs a "burst DPS" skill. Maybe I can find
an epic sword with +Lethal Strike skill?

On the crit discussion, I've been buying up my Dexterity rather than
Strength and have been generally pleased with the results.
It sure would be helpful, though, if there was some way
to see the OA/DA of the last monster I hit.

Diablo 2 had this feature when you hovered your mouse pointer over
your attack rating/defense rating on the character screen.
I heard a rumor that something like this might be added to TQ
in the next patch. To which I say, please do!

Phillip Marcus
06-30-2006, 10:06 AM
Yeah, Medierra mentioned he'd like to put that in. I'd expect a patch to fix up technical issues before they work on fiddling with balance or ui options, but I'm sure we'll see some changes down the road

Anyway, as for burst dps, just have two setups - dual wield on one, sword/shield on the other. That may not be practical early on due to skill points (though you could always retrain), but Hew (and dual wield in general) really helps for dishing out pain on single targets

Still fooling with some crit testing, getting results a few points off expected values, trying to nail down the order of calculation the game is using.

Edit: Curious, it looks like stat bonuses are being applied AFTER crit bonuses, at least, that was the only way I could get the numbers to add up right. 500+ oa over target for 50% crits, 100 damage weapon with 50% piercing.

As expected, pierce damage was not shown in crit. I don't know if it's truncating the decimal or actually dealing fractional damage though.

Andrew the Legit SP
06-30-2006, 12:59 PM
Thanks, Philip.

I'd rather not go down the Dual Wield road.
Seems like every Warrior I meet chose Dual Wield
(typically with Earth Enchantment/Brimstone or
Blade Honing/Envemon Weapon) for max DPS.

I want play the guy on the box cover art (who I like to believe
is the same guy that kills the Gorgon in the opening cinematic).
He's tough, deadly, and absolutely fearless.

And he does NOT dual wield. :)

Phillip Marcus
06-30-2006, 03:05 PM
Well, in terms of progress and farming, dps > anything else for the most part, and that means dual wield, ternion, etc, are going to overpower defense, pets, and so on

However, in mid-late Epic and Legendary, defenses become a lot more important (assuming you don't mind croaking all the time, and the xp penalty starts to get pretty harsh as you get to the higher levels)

So, you might want to consider speccing for higher damage early, then looking at your defensive options later in the game, once you start running into serious trouble (unless of course, you don't mind a more stately pace through the game, nothing wrong with that)

Andrew the Legit SP
06-30-2006, 03:32 PM
I'm comfortable with my slow-and-steady Conqueror build.
Just this once, role-playing will take priority over pure DPS.

Thanks Philip.

Harkonis
06-30-2006, 05:29 PM
Thanks, Philip.

I'd rather not go down the Dual Wield road.
Seems like every Warrior I meet chose Dual Wield
(typically with Earth Enchantment/Brimstone or
Blade Honing/Envemon Weapon) for max DPS.

I want play the guy on the box cover art (who I like to believe
is the same guy that kills the Gorgon in the opening cinematic).
He's tough, deadly, and absolutely fearless.

And he does NOT dual wield. :)

I think the guy on the cover art DOES dual wield, he's just not doing it in that picture ;) Check the second sword on his back, when he hits 'W' he'll have both swords out :P

Jagadance
06-30-2006, 10:35 PM
One quick question if you don't mind answering. :)

Can bow's get critical hits? The reason I ask is that a few people, including myself have not seen any numbers floating above any of the mobs when using a bow and having the game options set to display crit numbers. There is a little discussion on it here http://www.titanquest.net/gameplay/1554-damage-numbers-screen.html/

Thanks for your time. :)

cloudkat
06-30-2006, 10:42 PM
Let's see if I can ask this with out turning this into some HUGE post:

How is dmg figured for weapons??
I have the Deathweaver's Legtip (green)
25-30 dmg...ect.,
I was looking at anther double-bladed ax (also green) that does 26-35 dmg, but when I equip it my Avg Dmg, Att Spd, and Dmg per sec all go down. Now I understand that this is because of the piercing Dmg that the Legtip does w/ all my peircing dmg modifiers. But what I am wondering is this:
On the Double-Bladed Ax, it has something that says:
+23% Dmg
+16% Dmg

Is this extra Dmg factored in to the numbers shown for my Avg Dmg, Att Spd and DPS?? Or is this extra damage that I do that is not calculated into the numbers shown??

I hope this is understandable :(

It would seem that the Double-Bladed Ax should be doing more Dmg than the Legtip, even with the piercing Dmg and modifiers of the Legtip. But this can only happen if the "+23% and the +16% to Dmg" is NOT figured into the numbers shown on the player stat page but instead is Dmg that is factored in the final Dmg dealed out in each hit.
Last thing is this:
with this weapon having two "+%" to the Dmg, wouldn't that mean that you thak the base damage and ad the first +% to it, then take that total and figure in the other "+%"
on top??

Sven
07-01-2006, 12:01 AM
Another question, relating to armor:

The determination for armor absorbtion of damage is...
Damage - Armor * .66 (increases to .82 I believe with max armor handling)

Now, how does bonus armor figure into this? Is it divided by 4? so 4 bonus armor gives +1 armor to each spot?
Or, is it like a everywhere armor? +4 bonus armor gives +4 armor to every spot?

Thanks.

Quakes
07-01-2006, 04:47 PM
Is attack speed really capped at 300%? On my Assassin, no matter how hard I try, I cannot seem to get my attack speed to go over 171%.

I'm wielding 2x Spatha of Devouring, with a "Very fast" speed. One of them has a +25% attack speed from relic, and the other has +15%. Then, from the rest of my equipment, I have +20% from the amulet, +10% from a ring, +15% and +8% from bracer (15% from the bracer itself, another 8% from a relic), +18% from Weapon Training, and finally +8% from Ardor when I have onslaught on.
It still shows 171% under Attack Speed. If I remove the bracer and don't have onslaught on (15%, 8%, 8% less) it still shows 171%. Is there something I'm missing here?

mokka
07-01-2006, 05:59 PM
Attributes

In all cases, attributes that boost damage affect any source of that damage, weapon, staff, spell/skill, etc



one more question: im playing a storm/spirit (oracle) character.
in the skill tree, the damage for my spells is fixed, no matter how many points
i put into INT (e.g. by putting rings on and off).
is there any way to see the INT bonus on my spell damage ingame? how do
i know that the points i put into INT really raise my spell damage?

thanks for the information, great work!

Arthias
07-02-2006, 04:38 AM
My question is about Art of the Hunt under Hunting Mastery. At level 1 it looks like this:

+12% Pierce Damage
+3 Damage to Beastmen
+3 Damage to Beasts

My question is, does that +12% Piece Damage pertain to all enemies or just beastmen and beasts as well. It doesnt specify which has me somewhat confused.

Savant
07-02-2006, 08:23 AM
I was also having some thoughts regarding the +x% Fire Damage that the Earth Enchantment skill provides, primarily because its description states that it "Imbues your weapons and the weapons of nearby allies with the power of rock and flame.". Does this mean it will only affect and add a bonus to Fire damage from weapons and not to spells? Or do spells like Flame Surge and Volcanic Orb benefit from this +% Fire damage bonus from Earth Enchantment as well (because you said +% Fire damage equipment affect them)?

Reader81
07-03-2006, 03:24 PM
I wonder why this isn't in Sticky?

Mivo
07-03-2006, 03:32 PM
If I'm reading this right, then a bow-using hunter only needs to add points to dexterity, since bow damage is piercing damage and strength does not modify the damage of bows at all?

Phillip Marcus
07-03-2006, 07:49 PM
Hmm, a backlog :)

Let's see what we can do:

Jagadance: I've never seen a bow crit either, and while I actually asked about this, I never did receive an answer. I've never been crit by a ranged attack either, so based on testing and experience, it seems that only melee attacks can score critical hits, and only physical damage is modified by the crit.

This makes crits basically free bonus damage for melee characters (due to the way OA/DA works, if your OA is high enough, you score almost constant crits), but makes OA worthless for ranged or caster type characters. Given that Ternion is already so hugely powerful though, it doesn't really need crits... the lack of crits on bow hits is sort of odd, but I'm not sure what the reasoning there is.

Cloudcat: You need to look over the info a bit more, and provide a clearer description and question for me to answer. Remember that dual wielding averages your speed between the two weapons, the dps/average damage display is not a perfect indicator of actual damage, and that % based modifiers affect both weapons

Sven: Yes, Armor Absorption defaults to 66%, there are some modifiers in the game that can increase this number. 'bonus' armor is applied to all four body locations equally (+4 gives +4 to chest, head, arms, and legs).

'Armor Protection %' is a a modifier to the base armor value of armor in that location only - supposedly, this modifier is meant to increase the value of all equipped armor, but this does not seem to be the way it is functioning currently.

Quakes: I'll look into this a bit more, those numbers are pulled out of the database, but I'm not 100% sure about the player caps myself (I've seen different maxed speeds on my own characters). One possibility is that there is a 300% max on the INCREASE to your weapons speeds - which is potentially a much lower displayed number than a '300% Attack Speed'. That is, the maximum could be three times the normal speed of whatever weapon you have equipped, which might account for the display discrepancy.

Mokka: Unfortunately, there is no in-game mechanism to see a damage division by type, or to see exactly what modifiers are applying where. Int DOES boost staff damage, spell damage, and elemental damage from weapons however (as do most other 'global' modifiers, that is, passive abilities, auras, and any equipment source of % based damage modification)

Arthias: That's just a boost to your piercing damage, form any source, so yes, max it! Against Beastmen and Beasts, you get the added benefit of a nice hefty flat damage boost (handy, given the number of Beastmen class monsters in the game)

Savant: Earth Enchantment is a buffing aura, once active, all fire damage from you, your pets, or your party members is boosted (in addition to the other bonuses it gives)

Cironir: No, only a % of bow damage is piercing, the rest is physical. Strength modifies physical damage, so it boosts base bow damage (indeed, you want to get your base damage high anyway, because the pierce conversion is done from the base physical amount, so a large piercing boost if your base damage is terrible is not especially useful)

Phew. Think that covers most of them.

Hope everyone is enjoying time off for the 4th of July weekend :)

Jagadance
07-04-2006, 12:15 AM
Thanks much for the reply Phillip. :)

Though the whole bow thing is a little funky to me. I just got an epic bow with +offensive ability on it. I guess it could be there for the "to hit" chance, but I honestly don't even remember missing anything ever, so it would be kind of a useless stat for a bow. :(

Phillip Marcus
07-04-2006, 02:34 AM
Nope, arrows/staff shots/magic attacks always hit, there isn't really much of a tohit calculation (or well, there is, but it's so soft that any melee character is likely going to either be always hitting, or always hitting and getting some level of crit on top of that)

Savant
07-04-2006, 03:31 AM
Wow Phillip, really, your knowledge of the internal workings of the game and your dedication to explaining this and answering our inquiries is amazing, and greatly appreciated.

Kiz
07-04-2006, 08:40 AM
So, to confirm - if I've got a weapon that deals entirely physical damage (no +fire or anything like that), a +20% fire damage ring would be rather useless to me? I'd thought upon reading the tooltip that this was the case, however equipping such a ring increased my displayed DPS by a rather significant amount, which confused the hell out of me. Can I get some confirmation as to if it does or doesn't 'add' extra fire damage to the physical? For instance, if I'm doing 200 physical damage, does it add 40 fire damage to that? There really do seem to be some bugs with that displayed DPS.

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Phillip Marcus
07-04-2006, 11:50 AM
Are you sure that ring didn't have +flat fire on it as well? The only suffix I can think of that adds +% elemental damage also adds a small flat amount as well, unless it was a unique epic/legendary or a rare monster item (and I tested a ring with only +% fire, it added no damage, as expected).

And thanks Savant, but don't take anything I say as gospel. It's based on my own play, the database, which anyone has access to, and some conversations with the devs. In time, I'm sure the community will have plenty of highly knowledgable people about how the game works. Also, trust the devs word over my own, it is easily possible that I'm in error about some of the finer points.

jog
07-04-2006, 02:45 PM
"All shields have a 'recast' block timer of 3 seconds, before other modifiers"

Phillip, can you please give us further information 'cause that sentence is as darkening as revealing. ;)
Obviously it means that after a successful block it will take 3 seconds until a next block may occur. But what about all the passive shield skills, especially the three ones on the right side of the mastery (don't remember the names as I play the german version now). Do they have their "own" recast timer, each seperatedly or alltogether as a passive skill timer? Or are all shield skills subsumed under a general 3 second timer which I fear to believe true cause why should I take these immense physical damage, although having a base block rate of 55% and all passive shield skills maxed? (playing in epic, egypt, lv 41, ac 4xx, life 4500)

Phillip Marcus
07-04-2006, 02:58 PM
Those are offensive skills, they don't have anything to do with blocking, if you're talking about the ones on the right side of the Defensive mastery

I have no idea what the translations actually say about the skills in the german version though

Tomji
07-04-2006, 07:40 PM
I am still not sure how to increase the Damage with my spells for sure.
Let's take volcanic Orb for an example

+10 Fire Damage = Does it help my spell?
+20% Fire Damage = Helps with my spell?
+20% Elemental Damage = Fire should be element...?
+10% Damage = All Damage I guess... spells too?

So far I feel more of a difference with +20% Int Items! Then with any +Damage Items.

Kiz
07-04-2006, 11:36 PM
The ring also adds something like 6 fire damage, however that's rather insignificant compared to the amount of direct DPS that was added to the display.

Phillip Marcus
07-05-2006, 02:18 PM
Just a quick update, got some more answers from the devs - as suspected, only melee hits ever crit, however, the piercing damage IS boosted by the increased physical damage, it's just not shown in the crit (only the increased physical damage is shown in the yellow number)

Another interesting bit - '% of attack damage converted to health' apparently counts all damage types except durational, so added flat elemental/vitality/piercing are all part of the % converted. Additionally, +% life leech DOES work on this modifier.

Another useful one - damage reduction from specific monster types apparently reduces all damages types from those monster types, AND it stacks in a flat manner, so two 33% items is 66% reduction (potent!)

There were several others, but I need to put this batch of info together into a coherent update for the first page, just thought some people might be interested in those

leth
07-05-2006, 02:57 PM
wow, I have been away for the 4th, and I come back and you got so much more info for us Phillip! Thank you so very much!

Okay I have couple questions that bothered me in the nature tree:

1. For the Dessimation skill the tool tip says something like:

+x target, +y healed

what is this "y" ? Is it the additional hp healed for each "x" targets? Or is it a total of hp that is healed which is then divided among the "x" number of targets? In fact, how is the amount healed per target calculated? Is it just a flat division of the hp healed shown for regrowth and "y" by "x" ?

2. Does Birar ward scale with difficulty? I mean the amount of hp they have must be a joke in harder modes.

Jagadance
07-05-2006, 03:31 PM
Just a quick update, got some more answers from the devs - as suspected, only melee hits ever crit, however, the piercing damage IS boosted by the increased physical damage, it's just not shown in the crit (only the increased physical damage is shown in the yellow number)


Ok thanks for confirming the no crits for bows (darn :P ) I'm not sure I understand the rest of what you said though. Piercing damage is boosted by "the increased physical damage"? Does that mean that offensive ability somehow adds piercing damage from bows? Sorry for picking at your brain here, but I'm trying to beef up my hunter as much as I can and as much info as I can get is very helpful. Huge thanks for all you're contributing Phillip. I always enjoy a game more if I know all the little mechanics. :D

STiger
07-05-2006, 06:40 PM
Awesome amount of information PM, and thank you so much for staying in it to answer the multitude of follow-up questions.


(roguelikes for life ;))

And that, btw, is the coolest part of all ;)

Xaece
07-05-2006, 09:31 PM
I am still not sure how to increase the Damage with my spells for sure.
Let's take volcanic Orb for an example

+10 Fire Damage = Does it help my spell?
+20% Fire Damage = Helps with my spell?
+20% Elemental Damage = Fire should be element...?
+10% Damage = All Damage I guess... spells too?

So far I feel more of a difference with +20% Int Items! Then with any +Damage Items.
Yes to +% Fire damage and +% Elemental. An I think yes on +10 fire damage. +% Damage is a no, unless it deals physical damage. If it doesn't list a damage type, it means Physical damage only (With the exception of Damage Absorbtion which seems to be all damage types, wierd I know)

Xaece
07-05-2006, 09:35 PM
Ok thanks for confirming the no crits for bows (darn :P ) I'm not sure I understand the rest of what you said though. Piercing damage is boosted by "the increased physical damage"? Does that mean that offensive ability somehow adds piercing damage from bows? Sorry for picking at your brain here, but I'm trying to beef up my hunter as much as I can and as much info as I can get is very helpful. Huge thanks for all you're contributing Phillip. I always enjoy a game more if I know all the little mechanics. :D
Ok, lets say a melee is using a 100 damage sword, that has a 20% Pierce Ratio. On a Normal hit, he strikes for 100 total damage, which would break down to 80 Phys and 20 Pierce damage.
On a crit (lets assume crit is 2x damage, not certain but 2x is easy number), he will now strike for 200 total damage. 20% of that 200 will be Pierce damage, so he strikes for 160 Phys damage, this part will be shown as the Yellow number, and he will strike for 40 Pierce damage which is not added into the Yellow number.

In short, it means if your attack does other damage types than Physical, and you see a Yellow crit, you actually did more damage than that amount which will be represented on your Greatest Damage Dealt on the secondary character page. So in the above example, even though the player 'saw' a 160 crit, he actually dealt 200 damage which will be put in as the players Greatest Damage Dealt.

Jagadance
07-06-2006, 12:25 AM
Ok, lets say a melee is using a 100 damage sword, that has a 20% Pierce Ratio. On a Normal hit, he strikes for 100 total damage, which would break down to 80 Phys and 20 Pierce damage.
On a crit (lets assume crit is 2x damage, not certain but 2x is easy number), he will now strike for 200 total damage. 20% of that 200 will be Pierce damage, so he strikes for 160 Phys damage, this part will be shown as the Yellow number, and he will strike for 40 Pierce damage which is not added into the Yellow number.

In short, it means if your attack does other damage types than Physical, and you see a Yellow crit, you actually did more damage than that amount which will be represented on your Greatest Damage Dealt on the secondary character page. So in the above example, even though the player 'saw' a 160 crit, he actually dealt 200 damage which will be put in as the players Greatest Damage Dealt.

I understand what you're saying about the whole pierce damage percentage of crits thing, but since bows cannot crit, I still don't see how this applies to bows, or what Offensive ability does for bows, even though I've seen that modifier on quite a few bows at this point.

It's also a possibility that my brain is just not processing the information properly and I'm the only one who doesn't understand it. :lol:

Xaece
07-06-2006, 08:32 AM
I understand what you're saying about the whole pierce damage percentage of crits thing, but since bows cannot crit, I still don't see how this applies to bows, or what Offensive ability does for bows, even though I've seen that modifier on quite a few bows at this point.

It's also a possibility that my brain is just not processing the information properly and I'm the only one who doesn't understand it. :lol:
Bows cannot crit is all there is to it. Apparently, OA is only useful for Melee characters, archers and casters can ignore it completely.

What he meant about the Pierce damage also being boosted by crits, is what I described he meant.

Voyyce
07-06-2006, 09:10 AM
On a crit (lets assume crit is 2x damage, not certain but 2x is easy number), he will now strike for 200 total damage. 20% of that 200 will be Pierce damage, so he strikes for 160 Phys damage.....

Not to correct you - your explanations in this thread have helped me a lot understanding game mechanics but as I understood from the first posts, crits will more likely be in the 110 or 120 % damage range for mobs of your level, not 200%. Just wanted to keep the few pieces of hard information we got at this point together.

"Going by the equations in the database, each 100 points of OA over your target's DA gives you a chance to hit the next 10% tier of critical hits".

So you need to have 1000+ more OA than target's DA to score a 200% crit. Might be possible with a special array of buffs/debuffs but only for certain builds if at all.

Evil Homer
07-06-2006, 05:23 PM
Can you explain the offensive ability bonuses?
If i have +40% offensive ability do i get 40% more damage or what? :rockon:

Kratos
07-06-2006, 06:32 PM
So if speed is capped wouldnt that mean slow weapons would end up being more powerful than fast weapons?

Jagadance
07-06-2006, 09:36 PM
Apparently, OA is only useful for Melee characters, archers and casters can ignore it completely.

Well, that's really poor design then. There's all kinds of Epic bows that have the +Offensive Ability mod on them. :(

Arthias
07-07-2006, 01:57 AM
What is the math behind potions? I've heard they heal a fixed rate, I've heard they heal a precentage, and I've heard they heal a precentage instant heal then a set heal over time amount...so how do they work exactly? And is there anywhere to find out how much each type of potion heals if they are fixed amount?

---Arthias

Pheonix
07-08-2006, 12:46 AM
Whats the intel to % mana regen i cant find it anywhere.Im playing rog/def which never add to regen or mana so i was wondering if i would be better off putting points on mana to better use potions or pump up int so i would maybe never need energy potions OR would a happy medium of the 2 work the best?Is say ill def need to add some to mana otherwise 2 lethal strikes and im oom.

Xaece
07-08-2006, 12:43 PM
Whats the intel to % mana regen i cant find it anywhere.Im playing rog/def which never add to regen or mana so i was wondering if i would be better off putting points on mana to better use potions or pump up int so i would maybe never need energy potions OR would a happy medium of the 2 work the best?Is say ill def need to add some to mana otherwise 2 lethal strikes and im oom.
1 Int = 0.01 Energy Regen.

Energy Regen% does NOT effect the bonus from Int. It only effects the 1.0 EPS all chars get, and any skills/items that add direct EPS bonuses (Such as Inspiration in the Rally tree for Defense).

As a Rog/Def, you should have Rally with Inspiration max'd.

Xaece
07-08-2006, 12:45 PM
Not to correct you - your explanations in this thread have helped me a lot understanding game mechanics but as I understood from the first posts, crits will more likely be in the 110 or 120 % damage range for mobs of your level, not 200%. Just wanted to keep the few pieces of hard information we got at this point together.

"Going by the equations in the database, each 100 points of OA over your target's DA gives you a chance to hit the next 10% tier of critical hits".

So you need to have 1000+ more OA than target's DA to score a 200% crit. Might be possible with a special array of buffs/debuffs but only for certain builds if at all.
Yah, thats why I said "Lets assume" I knew it wasn't but seeing as I've gotten really high crits with my shield I don't really understand how exactly the crit max is determine. My shield is 200 damage, and I have critted for over 1000 damage with it. Might solely be due to my 500ish Str however, but not certain. Either way, the yellow numbers in the end become "fluff" it seems.

Xaece
07-08-2006, 12:48 PM
What is the math behind potions? I've heard they heal a fixed rate, I've heard they heal a precentage, and I've heard they heal a precentage instant heal then a set heal over time amount...so how do they work exactly? And is there anywhere to find out how much each type of potion heals if they are fixed amount?

---Arthias
It seems to be both, Arthias.

potionhealth_01, which I assume is the lowest possible health potion.

Under the Bonus section it lists the following two bonuses:
bonusLifePoints: 300
bonusLifePercent: 15

EDIT: I could not find a listing for how long the heal over time lasts. So, at a guess the heal over time might last for the cooldown length listed (4 seconds). The % is definitely fired right when you drink a potion. Meaning they do heal at a fix'd rate afterwards.

Alright, making a comparison of them all now that I have them imported.
health_01
cost: 150
points: 300
percent: 15

health_02
cost: 500
points: 500
percent: 15

health_03
cost: 1000
points: 650
percent: 15

health_04
cost: 3500
points: 800
percent: 15

health_05
cost: 6000
points: 1000
percent: 15

health_06
cost: 15000
points: 1200
percent: 15

Hubuchu
07-10-2006, 04:14 AM
Thanks for all the help, just love digging into the game mechanics to get a greater understanding of what the h*ll is going on.
This is truely one of the most confusing games I've ever faced in terms of abilities, functions, attributes and so on, with all the different kind of damage types and millions of ways to improve and stack et cetera.

One of the things I'm not 100% clear on yet still is piercing damage, and how +piercing damage% works.

Currently I'm playing an Assassin (Rogue/Warfare), mostly because of this thread really, getting to know the awesomeness of Piercing Damage(or so I imagine) during the late-game really got me going. Alright, so I set off to conquer the world, that's what I'm supposed to do right? And I try to figure out what spec' I'll be using.

Now, if I got everything or anything right, it should look something like this:

My sword has 10 damage flat and 30% piercing. Thus a strike would deal 7 physical damage and 3 piercing damage, I think I got that right. Now, adding Blade Honing (+56% Piercing) and using Lethal Strike (+390% Piercing), would that end up as: 7 physical damage and 13,38 piercing damage? (+446%).

Now, adding a twist; Bleeding? I'm going to use Mortal Wound which grants +305% Bleeding Damage. 305% of what? The damage of Lethal Strike? And over what duration?

This game drives me insane like nothing else, did the developers make every tooltip a riddle for funsies?

Thanks beforehand and for the good work!

Edit: Actually it wouldn't be that damage at all since Lethal Strike also adds +500% damage but I think it got through somehow.

Edit 2: When I'm under the effect of 'Battle Rage' (level 1) my crits seem to double, every time, with different weapons on different foes. Is this because of the +50% OA?

Edit 3(I keep coming up with questions, and considering how many of 'em that has already been answered in this thread, maybe I should go get that guide just to translate game language into human language.): I'm trying to figure out how much strenght I want at maxlevel, to be able to get certain items. It seems like you gain more stats at higher levels when investing in them, or is it just me? Is there a chart for this if it's the truth?

Phillip Marcus
07-10-2006, 12:07 PM
Give me a moment to sort through these :) Putting up some new information as first priority.

Icehawk
07-10-2006, 02:48 PM
4pts per 1 stat pt added, at higher levels it's likely you have items that +% so you'll "see" more than the 4pt bump. For example if I increase Str by 1 I get +6 to the stat because of my gear.

Phillip Marcus
07-10-2006, 04:51 PM
*phew*

Ok, first page updated with a bundle of new info, take a look

edit:

Evil Homer, reread the first post about OA. Offensive Ability does nothing to your damage (directly), it just boosts the chance of getting a critical hit with a melee hit, and increases the severity of that crit (crits range from 10% extra to 50% extra). It is theoretically possible to start missing enemies with melee hits if your OA is too low, but most melee characters are going to have enough OA to avoid that, as the hit/miss OA/DA comparison is very soft. You'd need to be fighting enemies far above your level with an extremely poor OA for that to occur.

Kratos, about speed. If the cap on the displayed attack speed is correct, then yes, that would be the case - however, I have a feeling that the display is reflecting some modification to the base speed of the weapon, rather than an overall flat speed (that is, two weapons at 170% attack speed, they may actually require different amounts of bonus speed to get to that point), which would mean that slower weapons would require more bonus speed to reach the cap. I'm still not sure why the cap is shown at 300% in the database, but seems lower on the display screen. It could be something to do with the way the display is calculated, or the speed may be capped at 'three times the weapons base speed', which would account for the lower displayed total speed (particularly when dual wielding, which averages the speed of the two weapons to determine attack speed)

Phoenix, to add to what Xaece told you, just look for a few items with an Energy prefix/suffix on them. For my no int/no energy characters, I just pile up some +energy gear, and that usually takes care of my energy needs when combined with some potions. Unless you're running a build that just has an obscene amount of reserved energy and energy over time consumption, that should handle it for most non caster builds.

Xaece, about your shield, depending on what skill you were attacking with, you may have actually (despite the animation) been striking with your shield and your weapon simultaneously.

Hubuchu: You've got the Piercing right. In the case of the +% Bleeding, it'll modify any Bleeding damage you deal with the hit. If you don't have/deal any Bleeding damage, it does nothing! In the case of a Rogue, you do have several 'internal' sources of Bleed, and there's always gear that gives more.

About Battle Rage, yes, and that's part of the reason why even one point in it is useful. +50% OA is a huge bonus (and it doesn't increase with extra points), so while it is active, your crits are likely going to step up one or more tiers against enemies around your level.

No easy answer about the items. The guide has all the base stats for various gear in the game, or you could look it up yourself in the database (time consuming, obviously). Broadly (ignoring uniques), there are two sets of strength gear, and one set of int gear (that requires a bit of dex). The 'light' strength gear (breastplates, leggings, armbands) requires a bit less str than the 'heavy' gear (suits, greaves, bracers). On base items at least - monster items vary, as do uniques.

Arthias
07-10-2006, 06:39 PM
I am Conjurer(Earth/Spirit) I use both Core Dweller and Lich King along with Ternion and Earth Enchantment. I have a few questions about this setup I would like to ask:

1. Does Volativity's chance to increase fire damage include fire staff attacks?

2. Does Earth Enchantment's +% fire damage raise spell damage or just increase fire melee damage. (For example would it increase Core Dwellers Wild Fire spell).

3. Does Brimstone's chance effect pertain to only physical attacks or can you get the effect with staff attacks(particularly while using Ternion).

---Arthias

Derek Newcastle
07-10-2006, 07:23 PM
Hi Phillip, I have a couple issues that I'm still confused about.

First is %life leech/% damage converted to health. You said, "The +% Life Leech modifier, as with other similar % based modifiers ONLY works if you ALREADY have Life Leech". When you say, "Already have life leech" what do you mean? Can you list some of these skills/affixes/mods?

My second issue is with health regeneration. How is it calculated? Does everyone regenerate health at a specific speed and the stacked health regeneration % items/skills apply to that base regeneration rate? I read how some people regenerate hundreds of health a second and I was wondering how to do that.

Thanks for this post it has been extremely helpfull.:rockon:

leth
07-10-2006, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the great update Phillip, but you missed my questions:

wow, I have been away for the 4th, and I come back and you got so much more info for us Phillip! Thank you so very much!

Okay I have couple questions that bothered me in the nature tree:

1. For the Dessimation skill the tool tip says something like:

+x target, +y healed

what is this "y" ? Is it the additional hp healed for each "x" targets? Or is it a total of hp that is healed which is then divided among the "x" number of targets? In fact, how is the amount healed per target calculated? Is it just a flat division of the hp healed shown for regrowth and "y" by "x" ?

2. Does Birar ward scale with difficulty? I mean the amount of hp they have must be a joke in harder modes.

Could you please explain these please?

rainchaser
07-11-2006, 01:53 AM
Hi Phillip. What happened to the old avatar. I liked it because it had the same eye color as me. The new one is nice though too ;p

For a serious question, this came up in another thread. On the skill Art of the Hunt does the +piercing damage apply only to beastmen or is it universal?

kamix
07-11-2006, 02:09 AM
Singing with blades
The Dual Wield ability is giving a chance for BOTH weapons to hit at the same time, dealing full damage, modified by your abilities, each with a chance to score a critical hit.

The rest of the time, your hands randomly attack, with a 50/50 chance of either hand swinging (they do not alternate, it's random - you can try it yourself, stand still with Onslaught on your rmb and hold it down, watching the swinging pattern - you can even see Dual Wield/Cross Cut/Tumult triggering).

Your attack speed is averaged between the two weapons you have equipped, so if you have a very fast sword in one hand and add a slow club in the other, your attack speed will drop (causing a resultant decrease in DPS).


In response to this. If I had a very fast weapon in left hand and slow in my right, when I land a single attack (dw didn't trigger) with say the slow right hand, will the speed of the swing be slow or the average of the two weapons? Or is the 'averaged speed' just a product of the randomness of left and right weapon?

Thanks, I've had trouble testing this.

Phillip Marcus
07-11-2006, 02:22 AM
Derek: Just like other +% damage modifiers, if you don't have the damage type in place for it to modify, it does nothing. In this case, either X Leech damage over Y seconds (occurs on a variety of items), or '% of Attack Damage converted to Health' (same, a few items). It might apply to the few skills that leech (Life Drain?), not certain.

Health Regen % just modify your base (+1/sec) regen rate. However, there are items that add to that base rate, and skills that greatly increase the base rate. Since the % modifiers increase the base rate, skills that give health regen can give you a huge health regen boost. I'm not actually an enormous fan of health regen, since burst damage is what kills characters, not damage over time (usually), but I could see a defensive build getting some substantial milage out of the modifiers with the right skills and gear - defense is usually a bigger issue in Legendary than offense is, most characters have plenty of offense by then (additionally, defense may be of greater import once people start going for hardcore wins)

Leth, sorry, didn't mean to miss that. As far as I know, Dissemination gives that health amount to each target that it 'bounces' to. 900 or so at max level? Database indicates a max of 3 extra targets at 8 meters away per jump, though I don't know offhand if that increases with more points. Curiously, it also lists a max level of 5 higher, rather than 4 higher. Typo or deliberate to allow more healing, I don't know. It does have a dependancy on Regrowth, so it may add that healing amount to the healing from Regrowth. I can't test that as easily, next time a friend is around, I'll bug them to test it with me.

Briar ward is a 'pet', so it probably gets the boost that normal your pets do.

kamix, as far as I know, the averaged speed is used for either hand, and any triggered attacks, as long as you are dual wielding

chaser, the eye changes from time to time ;) I think I answered that question somewhere earlier in this thread... anyway, it's universal, separate modifiers are always on separate lines iirc

Archmag
07-11-2006, 02:50 AM
... (particularly when dual wielding, which averages the speed of the two weapons to determine attack speed)
...

I have tried to test it, but was tottaly confused. I started a warfare character. Got to level 3, and gathered a lot of loot from those satyrs at the beginning. Among them a lot of similar identical broken weapons. Have put one point in dual wielding and started to experiment. Two weapons (daggers i think): each has a speed of 93 alone. When I wear them both, speed drops to 84, redusing dps below that of a single weapon. The same thing was with all the other weapons: swords, axes, clubs. Attack speed drops by about 8-10 when dual-wielding them. When my lvl 42 assassin removes one of the fast swords his dps goes up by 100 (speed is raised from 171 to 190). So it is not so easy as just average from two weapon speeds, something else is hidden here. Ohh, and when you get your skill that adds attack speed to swords, axes, clubs while dw them, it only adds half of the written speed.

Phillip Marcus
07-11-2006, 02:53 AM
Medierra mentioned that the display doesn't reflect dual wield stats accurately, so it may not be reliable. The averaged speed is going by an answer to a question he gave about dual wield some time ago. I can't remember if that was here on the forum, or something I asked him directly at one point or another.

leth
07-11-2006, 06:53 AM
Thanks so much again Phillip. About the +5 max level thing that you noticed. I too have noticed that. It seems to me that different skills are capped differently. Check out the liche king and nymph and you will see that they are capped at +5 max too.

Regarding the disseminate skill, here is what is confusing about it. When heal is casted on a target, the said target seem to get the most heal (the whole amount that you get in the regrowth skill) and the rest of jumps seems to get the amount that is added by the disseminate skill.
However, if you hold down the "shift" key (key for casting w/o moving) the heal seem to be divided evenly among everyone. (I am not sure how the division is done, is it a even divide or hp based? not sure) But what is the number that is being divided? Is it

( (+hp regrowth) + (+hp disseminate) ) / (# jumps) = (+hp for each party member)
Or

(+hp regrowth) / (# jumps) + (+hp disseminate) = (+hp for each party member)

thanks so much again

Glipys
07-11-2006, 09:25 AM
It seems that how attack speed works could use some more investigation.

First of all, its been said that dual wielding averages weapon speed, but I remember when I first got dual wield, I equiped two weapons and the displayed speed was lower than the speed of either weapon when equiped by itself... but I think that might have been in the demo, and it might have changed. Has anyone else noticed this?

Earlier in the thread someone was asking why their attack speed seemed capped at 171%, and it was proposed that the suposed 300% cap, when multiplied by their base speed was yeilding the 171%. However that doesn't seem right to me, since I've also hit a 171% cap, and I'm using weapons with different base speeds than the other poster.

This definatly looks like a hard cap, not diminishing returns or something like that, since when I had a low attack speed, equiping something with +10% attack speed raised it by 10, but now when I have 168% attack speed, equiping something with +15% raises it to 171%. Also, when I get battle markers now (suppost to raise attack speed by 60%) it stays at 171%.
I think this may just be a cap for dual wielding, since if I unequip my slower weapon, my attack speed goes up to 183%. I need to see what happens when I get a battle marker with one sword equiped.

Hopefully this is a display cap or something and not an actually hard cap, because it would make me kinda sad if I had actually hit the attackspeed cap before even finishing normal mode.

This is a great post, keep the information coming!

edit: to check out the dual wielding weapon speed formula, I took off all my equipment, went to a vendor and bought two non-magic "fast" swords and equiped them. Alone they both had a speed of 118%, but together the speed is 106%... I can't figure out any formula to explain that offhand.

PureAcid
07-11-2006, 09:28 AM
Put your spoliers up in the air ,that works <3 love the game THQ!

AngelicPenguin
07-11-2006, 07:44 PM
So...hypothetically...
Dual Wield, each hand has a 50/50 chance of striking.

If I have weapons of identical stats except for damage and one does a whole lot more than the other, does this mean Dual Wield is actually a detriment?

For example, sword1 hits for avg 40, sword2 for avg 80. Let's say 20% of dual wield, 40% chance of sword1, 40% of sword2.

.2( 40 + 80 ) + .4( 40 ) + .4( 80 ) = 72 which is less than the 80 i get with sword2 by itself.

Maybe this never comes up in practice, but I was just curious.

-Matthew

Skydancer
07-11-2006, 10:53 PM
What, if any, char stats increase bleed and poison damage? Str gives Physical, Int gives Elemental, Dex gives Pierce. Will any base stat increase Bleed or poison damages or any DoT's for that matter? Thanx

Phillip Marcus
07-11-2006, 11:28 PM
Yeah, if you have a strong weapon and a very weak weapon, you may be dealing much lighter hits half the time - however, with all DW modifiers maxed, and with attack speed maxed, you tend to be attacking with both weapons so frequently that any loss of damage (unless you're talking about something WAY weaker than the other weapon) is usually made up for from the bonuses that you'd use a weaker weapon for (usually a Veteran's Foo of Devastation or similar with Achilles or whatever, the speed tends to make up for lower base damage)

None Skydancer - Poison increasing affixes and items are fairly common, Bleed not so much (probably why Poison is listed as a primary and Bleed a secondary resist).

Jagadance
07-11-2006, 11:54 PM
I know a lot of people have said it already, but I just want to again thank you for all your time here answering our questions Phillip. :D

Arthias
07-13-2006, 02:20 PM
If you wear two Seal of Hephaestus does the chance to resist damage stack so its 20% Chance?

-Seal of Hephaestus Lv.45
10% Chance of 118% Damage Resistance
66% Fire Resistance
111 Burn Damage over 3 seconds
+75% Fire Damage
+250 Health
+2 to Brimstone
Grants Skill: Heat Shield

---Arthias

Phillip Marcus
07-13-2006, 03:37 PM
Most % chance to trigger an effect abilities seem to be calculated in isolation, not added, so it's probably 2x10%, or 1% for both (236% damage resist?), 18% for either, 81% for neither.

The 'both' part there matters since it increases the damage resist, it wouldn't matter for a chance like dodge, where it'd just be 19% to dodge (assuming 2x10%s), since both or either results in an evaded melee strike.

But I don't know if that's how they are actually calculated - you'd have to check with Medierra for something under the hood like that

Also, I have no idea what the point of 118% damage resist is :P Doesn't make a lot of sense, since 100% should block the full physical hit, there must be some penalty applied to that resistance (though it would not block the pierce portion, if any, as that's converted before resists are taken into account).

Xaece
07-13-2006, 09:05 PM
Alright Phillip. I got the ultimate challenge for ya now. Since I figured out the Art Manager, I've been able to answer a lot of questions I have had, however, this latest question the Art Manager is making it even more confusing!

Alright, so, how do the Loot Tables -really- work? How does the game determine what chance for items to drop?

For broken, common, magical, and rare items this makes sense. But when you start looking for the references to Epic and Legendary items, it all falls apart. What I mean by this, is there are only three 'unique' swords that are referenced in ALL of the Normal Loot Tables... However, I have gotten several unique swords that are not referenced in the loot tables. So, how does it really work?

Like I said, this is the ultimate challenge considering how 'looped' the Loot Tables are. (as if what I said above isn't bad enough, a boss has a loot table that references a loot table that references another loot table that references yet another loot table before it finally references actual items.)

GGG
07-16-2006, 07:17 AM
First of all thanx a lot for explaining all this. I appreciate that much :)

There is still one skill which remains cryptic to me : concussive blow.

'Adds a chance for attacks to stun enemies and increases the duration of stun attacks when wielding a club type weapon.
+15% Stun Damage, 5% Chance of 1.0 Second of Stun'

I dont think you explained what is stun damage yet.

My guess would be that it's some kind of 'damage' done by hammer-like weapons only and which leads to stunning the target after doing a certain amount of stun damage.

the skill is supposed to increase 2 things : your chance to stun and the duration of the stun.

i suppose that the '+X stun damage' increases the chance to stun and the '5% chance of Y seconds of stun' adds a 5% chance to increase the duration of the stun by Y seconds.

Am I right?

Lived
07-16-2006, 02:37 PM
GGG, actually the 15% Stun Damage is the increased duration that's added to all stun attacks. All stuns should last 15% longer with this skill while wielding a club or mace.

Dreamer
07-16-2006, 02:49 PM
Does burn damage stack? For instance, if my weapon does burn damage and a skill I have does burn damage, do they both run at the same time or does one override the other?

When I add a point to health, it adds 25hp. But if I have % increase to HP, shouldn't it visibly add more than 25hp? Same with the other stats. I don't notice this happening.

Lived
07-16-2006, 03:00 PM
Does burn damage stack? For instance, if my weapon does burn damage and a skill I have does burn damage, do they both run at the same time or does one override the other?
See this post (http://www.titanquest.net/skills-masteries/4300-rogue-poisoned-weapons.html?highlight=poison+stack#post40307) and replace the word poison with burn for the answer. The short answer is yes.


When I add a point to health, it adds 25hp. But if I have % increase to HP, shouldn't it visibly add more than 25hp? Same with the other stats. I don't notice this happening.
Yes, it should. I'm not sure what's going on there.

Bubble181
07-16-2006, 05:05 PM
It does. If I add apoint in Energt it goes up by 27 point s right now...Due to some +10% Energy I'm wearing. It should display correctly o_O

AngelicPenguin
07-16-2006, 08:59 PM
Another interesting bit - '% of attack damage converted to health' apparently counts all damage types except durational, so added flat elemental/vitality/piercing are all part of the % converted. Additionally, +% life leech DOES work on this modifier.

I did a lot of testing with +life leech, +% life leech, and '% of attack damage converted to health' in the editor. It really seemed to me that +% life leech did not affect '% of attack damage' at all. It was a bit hard to tell since +% life leech gives back health over time, but it seemed like the health I got back was always equivalent to the life leech with nothing gained from '% of attack damage converted to health'

I could absolutely guarantee that +% life leech without any +life leech, but with '% of attack damage to health' did nothing at all. It really seemed like the life leech modifiers did not affect '% of attack damage converted to health.'

This would make sense since the devs listed that '% of attack damage converted to health' does not work with durational damage (and that's what life leech is listed under in the editor.)

It's terrible confusing though, that they use 'Offensive Life Leech' to mean '% damage converted to health' (under Offensive Absolute) in the editor and 'Offensive Slow Life Leech' (under Offensive Duration) to mean what's just called 'Life Leech.'

-Matthew

Xaece
07-16-2006, 11:37 PM
GGG, actually the 15% Stun Damage is the increased duration that's added to all stun attacks. All stuns should last 15% longer with this skill while wielding a club or mace.
Thats correct. A way to think of it, is all characters "heal" an amount of Stun Damage over time. If you have any Stun Damage, your char can not do anything.

If you take 1.0 Stun Damage, it takes 1 sec to "heal" that damage. If you have the +15% Stun Damage from Concussive Blow (and a Mace type equipped, since it requires it), then that 1.0 stun damage is now 1.15 stun damage which takes 1.15 to "heal" that damage.

So, Stun Damage = Stun Duration and vice versa. A Paladin (Defense/Storm) who uses a Mace can increase Thunderbals 4.0 Stun by +40% which now becomes 5.6 Stun!

GGG
07-17-2006, 01:36 AM
OK thanx I think I got it.

So basically if you're not a paladin the skill will do almost nothing :(

si_373
07-17-2006, 01:38 AM
Sorry if this has been answered already but I couldnt see it in the post.

I was just wondering about a quick question. For skill masteries like rogue there are a lot of skills that have a chance to trigger (obviously). Can these all trigger on the same strike or is it limited to one a hit?? for example if I use lethal strike can it also trigger with lucky hit and calculated strike to do huge amounts of damage??

Xaece
07-17-2006, 02:26 AM
Sorry if this has been answered already but I couldnt see it in the post.

I was just wondering about a quick question. For skill masteries like rogue there are a lot of skills that have a chance to trigger (obviously). Can these all trigger on the same strike or is it limited to one a hit?? for example if I use lethal strike can it also trigger with lucky hit and calculated strike to do huge amounts of damage??
Uhh. No. Because they not chance to hit skills.

Lucky Hit is a chance for your Calc Strike finale (the 4th hit) can do the bonus damage.

Lethal Strike can NOT "trigger" Calc Strike which is an active skill.

Masjan
07-17-2006, 08:27 AM
This property is known as 'Armor Absorption', and if you check the skill trees, you'll notice that several skills can boost this 66% Armor Absorption value, greatly increasing the power of equipped armor (Defense, of course, has a tier 1 skill that can raise this modifier).

Is the 'Armor Absorption' also a secondary resistance, and does it have penalty -50% on legendary dificulty?
If not, why Armor Handling give us a +16% bonus to 'Armor Absorption' ??? 16+66=82% but rsistance capp is on 80%, 2% is useless

Kiyoko
07-17-2006, 08:41 AM
not very thought over to give Artemis' Bowstring the possibility to get OA as completed bonus :)

Felexitus
07-17-2006, 10:09 AM
Is the 'Armor Absorption' also a secondary resistance, and does it have penalty -50% on legendary dificulty?
If not, why Armor Handling give us a +16% bonus to 'Armor Absorption' ??? 16+66=82% but rsistance capp is on 80%, 2% is useless
armor absorption is not a resistance at all and thus isnt efected by the cap

Masjan
07-17-2006, 10:27 AM
then armor absorption could be more then 100%?

Bubble181
07-17-2006, 10:42 AM
Yes. If you have 200 armor with 150% armor absorption, it'll stop 300 damage. Or it should, anyway. I haven't actually been able to confirm that, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't.

Felexitus
07-17-2006, 12:15 PM
because thats what armor protection is for ;-) as far as i know armor absorption above 100% is redundant

Lived
07-17-2006, 03:14 PM
I was just doing a little testing and I can confirm that an armor absorption value greater than 100% does stop greater damage than the value of the armor. One thing I noticed is that the %armor absorption values seem to modify your current armor absorption value. For example, base is 66%, another 50% added on increases it to 99%(66*1.5). An additional 50% looks like it brings it up to ~149%(99*1.5). I can't completely guarantee this is true because it was just a quick test and the damage I was taking was 1-2 points off from what it should have been(rounding diff. maybe?).

Xaece
07-17-2006, 05:07 PM
I was just doing a little testing and I can confirm that an armor absorption value greater than 100% does stop greater damage than the value of the armor. One thing I noticed is that the %armor absorption values seem to modify your current armor absorption value. For example, base is 66%, another 50% added on increases it to 99%(66*1.5). An additional 50% looks like it brings it up to ~149%(99*1.5). I can't completely guarantee this is true because it was just a quick test and the damage I was taking was 1-2 points off from what it should have been(rounding diff. maybe?).
I'm willing to bet a couple hundred bucks that you are right.

Armor Handling, the +6% bonus is listed as a "Modifier" to Armor Absorbtion.

From all of my experience with every other "Modifier" to a value, it definitely increases it by a %. This really makes +ArmorAbsorb% mods more desireable in some ways. Damn do I wish they would list our Armor Absorbtion rate on the char screen now...

EDIT: Except on the second part. It should add the two +50% mods to +100%. So, 66*2 = 132% not 149%.

Lived
07-17-2006, 05:58 PM
Except on the second part. It should add the two +50% mods to +100%. So, 66*2 = 132% not 149%.
I agree, it should work that way. I tried to get the numbers to add up but it wasn't coming out right.

I used a set of common(white name) armor with 241 armor per piece. My test mob was a satyr pawn with 0 str and equipped with a club that I altered the min and max damage on so that it was a set value. I played with the absorption values using custom rings until I realized that +34% wasn't giving me the 100% I thought it should have. After that I tried +50% and that did the trick. Using two rings with 50% armor absorption should have brought me to 132%.
The formula the game uses is:
(sumProtectionDV * (1 - sumAbsorptionDV)) + (physicalDamageDV - sumProtectionDV)

sumProtectionDV = 241
sumAbsorptionDV = should be 1.32

So a physical damage value of 318.12 should be the "breaking point." Any value higher should do damage. So I tried 320 damage. Nothing. Huh? So I went and tried 400 damage. Okay that got through. Tried 330, nothing. 340, nada. 350, 360... 370 is where I begin to take damage again. ~6 damage per hit. Looking back at the formula ~151% is what sumAbsorptionDV would need to be. I have no idea what's going on, I know I'm doing something wrong but I cant get it to work out. No piercing damage involved. No strength bonus involved. Anyone with a bigger brain and more patience want to take a crack at this?:knockout:

Note: There seems to be a second damage formula as well. The two are listed as:
physicalDamageDefenseEquationDGP = (sumProtectionDV * (1 - sumAbsorptionDV)) + (physicalDamageDV - sumProtectionDV)

and

physicalDamageDefenseEquationDLEP = physicalDamageDV * (1 - sumAbsorptionDV)

That second equation may have something to do with the difference I'm getting.

Xaece
07-17-2006, 06:02 PM
Hmm, interesting info. And boy am I not awake yet... Yah, ArmorAbsorbtion is useful by increasing by a percent, as you just said 34% additive would bring you to 100% Absorb, but it doesn't, it takes 50%.. Meaning it gives less benefit than percieved.

And yah, I'm a total nightowl, I think better after midnight, my brain is basically broken for the first 2-3 hours after I wake up, heh.

EDIT: Have you, or are you using BMan's mod to damage numbers?
http://vnboards.ign.com/Message.aspx?topic=97830229&brd=23058
Thats a link to it. It makes it so all damage numbers are displayed (unless a display bug kicks in), instead of just Crit Hits. Unfortunately it makes all normal hits make your char grunt like they were critted, ugh.

Lived
07-17-2006, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the link to that mod Xaece.:clap: It really cleared things up. Although the club is set to do 370 damage, it's really doing 324. Something is modifying the satyr's damage besides str. So yes, 66% +50% +50% is indeed 132%. Now if only there were actually rings in the game with +50% absorption on them...

Picaboo
07-18-2006, 12:15 AM
Hi Phillip,

I have been wondering if there are any penalties/benefits for level difference between the character and the monsters. That would explain a lot of the gripes some people are having with melee characters. One thing I have noticed is if you are higher level than mobs they often ignore you if you do not attack.

Xaece
07-18-2006, 11:00 PM
Hi Phillip,

I have been wondering if there are any penalties/benefits for level difference between the character and the monsters. That would explain a lot of the gripes some people are having with melee characters. One thing I have noticed is if you are higher level than mobs they often ignore you if you do not attack.
While I am not certain what the specifics are, I do know for certain that there are penalties when fighting enemies higher than you.

The most notorious of which is a HUGE hit to the amount of exp you earn from kills. I watched a vid of a lv 37 killing Legendary Typhon whos lv 72. He got less exp than my lv 40 Warden does from lv 40ish Champion mobs.

The other thing I know for certain, but not sure if you could consider it a "penalty". Higher level enemies will have higher OA/DA and Armor. As a char levels up they should have close to those levels, in theory, but if you fight well above your level, melees could very well be missing their targets outright due to the differences in OA/DA. Which is something Archers and Mages do not have to worry about.

Viperace
07-19-2006, 12:10 AM
While I am not certain what the specifics are, I do know for certain that there are penalties when fighting enemies higher than you.

The most notorious of which is a HUGE hit to the amount of exp you earn from kills. I watched a vid of a lv 37 killing Legendary Typhon whos lv 72. He got less exp than my lv 40 Warden does from lv 40ish Champion mobs.



I am sad to hear this. Why on earth the dev. want to implement XP penalty for killing higher lvl mob, on a supposedly single-player game.

I guess I need to fall back to Legendary Greece to farm some XP, as mob in Orient are mostly 10 lvl higher than me now =\

Xaece
07-19-2006, 03:30 AM
I am sad to hear this. Why on earth the dev. want to implement XP penalty for killing higher lvl mob, on a supposedly single-player game.

I guess I need to fall back to Legendary Greece to farm some XP, as mob in Orient are mostly 10 lvl higher than me now =\
10 levels higher may not yet be at the pt that exp drops of big time. Like I said, I don't know when/how much difference it takes.

A 37 killing a 72, obviously should have an exp penalty. 10 level difference, might have a very very slight penalty, if any.

Bubble181
07-19-2006, 06:43 AM
I'm gald the penatly is there. Prevents people from just powerlevelling like mad, or being brought over by a friend. Sure, it's possible to have a level 12 character in Legendary Olympus, but he won't be much good there :-P

Squelch
07-19-2006, 09:23 AM
If a 37 can solo a 72, if anything they should get an experience bonus for taking on such a powerful opponent relative to themselves and winning. More risk, more reward. Now if they're being powerleveled by someone else that is higher level that's different. Of course in theory that would have to be one strong 37 and/or one weak 72 for that to happen... *shrugs*

reggie
07-19-2006, 10:42 AM
Guys i have a few questions.

1. What does % energy absorbtion from attacks do ?

2. Does % damage resistance only apply to the item its on or would it work globally if on a necklace, ring ?
Does % damage to resistance stack with the same mod on other items ?

3. Is % armor protection really only useful for armor item its on and so its useless if its on a necklace or ring ?

4. I've seen mention that % life leech works for % damage to health conversion. 1 person in this thread said it does nothing at all for % damage to health conversion.
So does it help for % damage to health conversion or does it not ?

Thanx

Bubble181
07-19-2006, 11:01 AM
% energy absorption seems to mean that, when dealt 1000 damage with 5% energy absorption, you'll gain 50 energy.

% damage resistance seems like it should work overall, just like any other resistance. It stacks, but I don't think it stacks completely. I dunno.

% armor protection works on all items. While it's true that, when hit, only 66% of one of your pieces of armor is being detracted, % absorption will change that no matter where it comes from, from a skill, a magical piece of armor, or any other item.

% life leech...I've heard so many different versions about that, I don't know anymore :-P I thin kit should work, though.

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 11:15 AM
4. I've seen mention that % life leech works for % damage to health conversion. 1 person in this thread said it does nothing at all for % damage to health conversion.
So does it help for % damage to health conversion or does it not ?

Are you referring to %+ Life Leech? Here was the test I ran. I created a weapon that did 1 pt of damage, and returned 100% damage to health. I added 10000%+ Life Leech to it and got NO additional health.

This intuitively makes sense to me b/c all items in TQ require the modifier to do any boost to it. So since I had no +Life Leech the %+ Life Leech would do nothing.

I also tried putting on a good amount of life leech directly (not the %+ modifier, the + modifier, ie, just straight life leech.) Life leech takes enemy health over time and gives it to you as life, so clearly I got life back from that life leech, but it really seemed I didn't get any ADDITIONAL life back by having a 100% damage to health. For example, I had it setup so that I was getting 50 health back per second after I whacked my test guy with 100000 HPs. It looked like I only got the 50 back, not an additional 50 or anything for having 100% damage converted to health. This makes sense to me since I dont think Life Leech is regular damage at all (more damage over time).

I only ran through these tests b/c I had seen mention that +% Life Leech affects % damage to health. Intuitively, it doesn't seem like it would since Life Leech in TQ is just a damage over time affect that I assumed did not affect % damage to health (the devs have stated that DOT effects do not affect % damage to health)

-Matthew

reggie
07-19-2006, 11:40 AM
ah ok.

Thanx for the explanation on the life leech issue.

Btw doesnt it mean if you do max 1 point of damage and already get the full 100% of that. then adding 100% life leech bonus you simply cant get over the already 100% since you already returned 100% of the damage you did ?


What if returning 100% already where 100% is the cap and any bonus to life leech % wont do a thing.

reggie
07-19-2006, 11:47 AM
thanx bubble for the reply.

about armor protection. It just adds 10% to the armor pieces right. Not 10% to the absorb. If it were absorb it would be pretty powerful.

Does % armor protection stack however ? I've seen set bonusses give % armor protection. Then there's individual armor pieces that give the same bonus. Then there's also rings and amulets that give the bonus.

I have another question.

When dual wielding..

1 weapon has 10-20 bonus damage, the other has 20-20 cold damage. Are both bonusses applied to the other weapon also ?

Another question, if both are the same bonus. Lets say i wield 2 exactly weapons with 10-20 cold damage bonus then would that basically mean each weapon gets a total of 20-40 cold damage bonus?

Another question is if both weapons have 3 sec freeze proc of 10% chance. Does that mean this will be a 20% total chance or still be a 10% total chance.

Thanx :).

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 11:48 AM
What if returning 100% already where 100% is the cap and any bonus to life leech % wont do a thing.

There wasn't any cap in my testing. I could give a sword 100 pt of damage and set the % damage converted to health to 200% and get 200 health back with each hit.

And just so it's clear, this is just my testing and speculation. :)

-Matthew

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 11:52 AM
1 weapon has 10-20 bonus damage, the other has 20-20 cold damage. Are both bonusses applied to the other weapon also ?

Another question, if both are the same bonus. Lets say i wield 2 exactly weapons with 10-20 cold damage bonus then would that basically mean each weapon gets a total of 20-40 cold damage bonus?

Another question is if both weapons have 3 sec freeze proc of 10% chance. Does that mean this will be a 20% total chance or still be a 10% total chance.

Ya, your doing 10-20 bonus damage period from weapon 1, NOT only when weapon 1 strikes. So you'd get bonuses from both weapons at the same time (at least as far as I understand it)

Yes, on the 20-40

I'd assume that you would have two 10% chances individually (b/c that's how some of the others worked from what I read.)

-Matthew

Bubble181
07-19-2006, 12:21 PM
I'd assume it's two individual chances for 10%, like the Penguin said. Of course ,that's about 19% so the difference isn't that big.

% armor protection is indeed protection and not the resistance. It stacks, but not completely, I don't know the actual formula but I read somewhere that you need 50% to get your armor to 100% protection instead of the base 66%, so I guess it's a % of the 66%, instead of just adding to the 66%. A bit silly if you ask me, but meh.

About the weapon bonusses: all bonusses from both weapons apply to both weapons. That's one of the things that makes dualwielding so strong: two weapons with 50% increased attack speed, or two weapons with each +% damage, or....will amplify one another to make some awesome damage dealing capacity.

reggie
07-19-2006, 12:26 PM
ah alright thanx. Just wondering if i should wield 2 of those damn cool looking sorrow clubs or not :).

I was just wondering since i was wielding ...

http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/search/banshee_search.pl?TitanQuest_Items.itemdivision=&TitanQuest_Items.category=&TitanQuest_Items.type=&TitanQuest_Items.slot=&_orderby=&TitanQuest_Items.armor=&TitanQuest_Items.blockchance=&TitanQuest_Items.piercing=&TitanQuest_Items.speed=&TitanQuest_Items.reqlevel=&TitanQuest_Items.reqdex=&TitanQuest_Items.reqint=&TitanQuest_Items.reqstr=&noSearch=to+Accelerated+Growth&TitanQuest_Items.itemname=demeter%27s+sor&_layout=TitanQuest_Items&_cgifunction=search]

and...

http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/search/banshee_search.pl?TitanQuest_Items.itemdivision=&TitanQuest_Items.category=&TitanQuest_Items.type=&TitanQuest_Items.slot=&_orderby=&TitanQuest_Items.armor=&TitanQuest_Items.blockchance=&TitanQuest_Items.piercing=&TitanQuest_Items.speed=&TitanQuest_Items.reqlevel=&TitanQuest_Items.reqdex=&TitanQuest_Items.reqint=&TitanQuest_Items.reqstr=&noSearch=to+Accelerated+Growth&TitanQuest_Items.itemname=torment&_layout=TitanQuest_Items&_cgifunction=search

I have 2 of each weapon btw.

But when i was wielding 2 torments even though my dps display said 2 torments gives higher dps then wielding 1 torment and 1 sorrow... it just seemed alot like when i wielding 1 torment and 1 sorrow i would get bigger damage hits.

Was thinking maybe coz of the % ice damage proc or something. No idea.

Or i thought maybe if wielding 2 torments both having the same mods, just slightly different damage, they wouldnt stack on the other weapon. Maybe with wielding 1 sorrow they would both stack so more dps.

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 12:43 PM
Or i thought maybe if wielding 2 torments both having the same mods, just slightly different damage, they wouldnt stack on the other weapon. Maybe with wielding 1 sorrow they would both stack so more dps.

I think the it has been reported by the Devs that DPS isn't entirely accurate when dual wielding. I mostly ignore it and just go w/ two weapons that individually have a higher DPS.

-Matthew

reggie
07-19-2006, 12:53 PM
yeah i was wondering if 2 x 10% chance to freeze 3 seconds would mean on a single weapon, so only this one weapon hitting even when dual wielding, would give this weapon a 20% chance instead of 10%.

Oh so % armor protection is actually armor absorb ? That makes it a nice stat then.

I assume stuff like resistance debuff on both weapons wont stack. Or having a 5% chance to stun for 3 sec on a weapon and then having the same mod on a ring wont stack either.

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 02:05 PM
Or having a 5% chance to stun for 3 sec on a weapon and then having the same mod on a ring wont stack either.

Ya, I don't THINK they stack, but it's not like the second one is worthless, right?

2 chances of 5% is better than one chance.

Xaece
07-19-2006, 05:26 PM
If a 37 can solo a 72, if anything they should get an experience bonus for taking on such a powerful opponent relative to themselves and winning. More risk, more reward. Now if they're being powerleveled by someone else that is higher level that's different. Of course in theory that would have to be one strong 37 and/or one weak 72 for that to happen... *shrugs*
That would actually be both.

The 37 would use Summons instead of his own powers (Well, he did use Study Prey which allows the summons to kill faster, but otherwise he himself could do nothing, and the summons only last for like 30 secs with 3min timer), since summons get more powerful on the harder difficulty. And its Typhon, we all know Typhon is a pansy for a boss.


Ya, your doing 10-20 bonus damage period from weapon 1, NOT only when weapon 1 strikes. So you'd get bonuses from both weapons at the same time (at least as far as I understand it)

Yes, on the 20-40

I'd assume that you would have two 10% chances individually (b/c that's how some of the others worked from what I read.)

-Matthew
This is wrong. Bonus Absolute, Raw, 'Pure' damage does NOT apply to both weapons if its on one weapon. Only +% (Modifiers) apply to both weapons when its on a single weapon. Absolute, Raw, 'Pure' damage does apply to both weapons if its on a pierce of Armor (NOT a Shield), or Jewelry.


I'd assume it's two individual chances for 10%, like the Penguin said. Of course ,that's about 19% so the difference isn't that big.

% armor protection is indeed protection and not the resistance. It stacks, but not completely, I don't know the actual formula but I read somewhere that you need 50% to get your armor to 100% protection instead of the base 66%, so I guess it's a % of the 66%, instead of just adding to the 66%. A bit silly if you ask me, but meh.

About the weapon bonusses: all bonusses from both weapons apply to both weapons. That's one of the things that makes dualwielding so strong: two weapons with 50% increased attack speed, or two weapons with each +% damage, or....will amplify one another to make some awesome damage dealing capacity.
This is WRONG! Armor Absorbtion is what you're describing. Armor Protection increases the armor of each individual piece by the %. So if you have +10% Armor Protection, and a 100 armor pierce then it is now 110 Armor. However, Armor Protection bonuses are NOT listed properly on the char page.

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 05:38 PM
This is wrong. Bonus Absolute, Raw, 'Pure' damage does NOT apply to both weapons if its on one weapon. Only +% (Modifiers) apply to both weapons when its on a single weapon. Absolute, Raw, 'Pure' damage does apply to both weapons if its on a pierce of Armor (NOT a Shield), or Jewelry.

Wow, that's horribly inconsistent (the + doesn't but the +% part, actually I guess all of it)

Glad you mentioned it though, I was pumped when I get lots of +damage on both weapons. I assume you tested this in the editor to find out?

-Matthew

Xaece
07-19-2006, 05:43 PM
Wow, that's horribly inconsistent (the + doesn't but the +% part, actually I guess all of it)

Glad you mentioned it though, I was pumped when I get lots of +damage on both weapons. I assume you tested this in the editor to find out?

-Matthew
Well, it makes sense really. +% Is designed to effect all sources. Adding additional base damage to a weapon adds it to just that weapon, really, when it says "Bonus" damage you should think of it as "Base" damage.

The easiest way to see what I mean, take two white swords, and put a Lightning/Fire/Poison, or any elemental Relic into only one of the swords, and leave the other one alone. Then Dual-wield them, you will see the animation of the special effect proc for only one of the swords very clearly.

If you then take two white unenhanced swords, and equip a Ring of Fire, you will clearly see every hit inflicts fire, in addition, on a DW Tech, you will quite clearly hear and see two fire hits.

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 05:47 PM
Bummer...i thought these melee guys were suppossed to have enough trouble ;)

So my nify %+ Fire Damage stuff doesn't affect anything but the one sword that has +fire damage (absolute)

I feel gimped now thanks a lot! ;)

Xaece
07-19-2006, 05:59 PM
Bummer...i thought these melee guys were suppossed to have enough trouble ;)

So my nify %+ Fire Damage stuff doesn't affect anything but the one sword that has +fire damage (absolute)

I feel gimped now thanks a lot! ;)
Haha, well, look at this way. If you're already kicking *** and chewing bubblegum, but you just ran out of bubblegum. This means you can get more powerful when you fix your equipment ;)

Bubble181
07-19-2006, 06:06 PM
Hey now! No chewing me bacuse I made a mistake :-(
Sorry! :-P there are far too many different armor values and damge reduction calculations floating around to keep'em all right. Heh.

Xaece
07-19-2006, 06:10 PM
Hey now! No chewing me bacuse I made a mistake :-(
Sorry! :-P there are far too many different armor values and damge reduction calculations floating around to keep'em all right. Heh.
Is alright. ^.^ I just can't stand misinformation, haha. :D

Xaece
07-19-2006, 07:03 PM
Alright, I found the exp equation, and the death penalty equations they are as follows.

exp formula:
((monsterLevel*15)+((monsterLevel-averagePlayerLevel)*(averagePlayerLevel/3.5)))*(1+(monsterExperience/100))
No Cap listed.

death penalty:
(currentPlayerLevel^2.95) * ((1+ (2 * gameDifficultyDV)) / 3)
Caps at 500,000.

Which is really rather odd. It shows that the amount of exp gained by a player should be much higher if they are lower level than the monster they kill. However, I have not seen it work like that, which makes me wonder if there is another equation elsewhere. I am also unsure what value gameDifficultyDV recieves, dunno if its just a simple 1, 2, 3 or ever a 0, 1, 2 or something more complicated.

Perhaps, Typhon just has a pathetic exp value, and thats why my lv 40 Warden gets more xp from enemies her level than the lv 37 did from lv 72 Typhon.

AngelicPenguin
07-19-2006, 07:52 PM
This is wrong. Bonus Absolute, Raw, 'Pure' damage does NOT apply to both weapons if its on one weapon. Only +% (Modifiers) apply to both weapons when its on a single weapon. Absolute, Raw, 'Pure' damage does apply to both weapons if its on a pierce of Armor (NOT a Shield), or Jewelry.

Just FYI, I tested this in the editor to verify and you were absolutely right about the weapon damage. Only the one weapon ever did the fire damage (I set it to a lot more than the other just to make sure it wasn't just a graphical thing)

-Matthew

TSS
07-19-2006, 08:16 PM
Hey Phillip, are you sure that the attack speed cap is 300% for both melee and casting? From what I have seen, the 300% cap is only for casting speed. Melee is capped at 190% for single hand and 171% for dual wield and it's not a display bug like everyone says.

In another thread I mentioned that I tested two weapons that just hit 171% vs two weapons at
200%+ attack speed and I found nothing different at all. When I say I just hit 171%, I mean exactly on the spot.

With my newest test, I used the same two weapons that hit 171% exactly vs two sabretooths using achilles relics with a completed bonus of 35% attack speed each. For the 171% weapons, I just hit regularly with no outside buffs or anything. For the sabretooths, I took a battle marker which boost my attack speed past 300%. Since the cap is supposed to be 300% like everyone says, that is still a difference of 129% in attack speed. A 129%difference should be like night and day and be noticeable at first sight. Again, I don't see it being any different from the 171% weapons.

Xaece, if you have time please test and come back with your results. You have been doing some tests of your own and have been answering questions for people so your words will bring alot more weight than mine.

reggie
07-19-2006, 08:24 PM
Ok so bonus on weapons do not add to the 2nd. % chance to freeze transfers to the other weapon though right or ?

% attack slow seems to work on both weapons also while its only on one.

Lived
07-19-2006, 09:24 PM
Was just playing around in the editor and it seems there's a bug that sets the in-game attack speed cap to 63.3% of the actual attack speed cap. I changed the cap from 300 to 1000 and using an extremely fast weapon I capped out at 633% (barely any animation when attacking at that speed). Played around for a while and it seems the bug with the max attack speed has to do with the min attack speed. As long as min attack speed is > 0 this bug occurs, however if min attack speed = 0 a different bug occurs. Using the default 300% max cap and a min speed cap of 0 causes the in-game max cap to be ignored.(heh had an attack speed of around 8.5 mil% with a crazy fast custom weapon)

Also noted that using the same weapon with the same speed (was at 320% atkspd at the time) with the 190% cap bug in place my attack speed was very noticeably slower then at 320% so I highly doubt it's just a display bug.

TSS
07-19-2006, 09:35 PM
Thanks. That's some interesting info there and it proves that it's not only a display bug. Hope the devs fix this soon although the battle marker might still mess up the balance between mace, axe and sword.

Still, it will be a nice boost to melee if it's fixed.

Good job :)

reggie
07-19-2006, 10:07 PM
could you guys check on loot tables on the main bosses. the 3 telkin's and typhon.

Coz im pretty sure that telkin 3 epic has a different loot table then typhon on epic.

Considering i lvld 3 lvls from 47 to 50 on typhon. Imagine how many times i've killed him. And then i did a bunch of runs in between on the 3rd telkin and she seems to drop items , also 2nd times or 3rd times, that i havent seen at all on typhon in 2 days straight.

Typhon for me seems to focus more on mage set items and always the same jewelry and shields. Hardly any weapons or meelee gear.

3rd telkine focusses mainly on jewelry also it seems but also throws in meelee gear and bows/staffs/weapons etc.
Also i see the stuff that typhon drops, jewels, shields (though telkine drops shields typhon does not) etc but mainly its new drops that typhone does not drop.


So im pretty sure each mob has a different main loot table. Kinda like in diablo.

Xaece
07-19-2006, 10:29 PM
could you guys check on loot tables on the main bosses. the 3 telkin's and typhon.

Coz im pretty sure that telkin 3 epic has a different loot table then typhon on epic.

Considering i lvld 3 lvls from 47 to 50 on typhon. Imagine how many times i've killed him. And then i did a bunch of runs in between on the 3rd telkin and she seems to drop items , also 2nd times or 3rd times, that i havent seen at all on typhon in 2 days straight.

Typhon for me seems to focus more on mage set items and always the same jewelry and shields. Hardly any weapons or meelee gear.

3rd telkine focusses mainly on jewelry also it seems but also throws in meelee gear and bows/staffs/weapons etc.
Also i see the stuff that typhon drops, jewels, shields (though telkine drops shields typhon does not) etc but mainly its new drops that typhone does not drop.


So im pretty sure each mob has a different main loot table. Kinda like in diablo.
No one understands how the loot tables actually work, yet.


Ok so bonus on weapons do not add to the 2nd. % chance to freeze transfers to the other weapon though right or ?

% attack slow seems to work on both weapons also while its only on one.
No, and no.

You can stack %Attack Slow, but you have to hit with BOTH weapons to stack it. A single weapon will not have both bonuses at the same time.

Any +% Damage bonus does apply to the other weapon as has been said by me, by Phillip Marcus, and by the dev's.


Xaece, if you have time please test and come back with your results. You have been doing some tests of your own and have been answering questions for people so your words will bring alot more weight than mine.
I have done my own testing, which I think I posted somewhere long ago, I just don't remember where. (500+ posts and counting).
It does confirm with the cap apparently actually being 171%. I had made a dagger that by itself had 300% aspd bonus on it, and noticed no real difference.

Lived
07-19-2006, 10:48 PM
could you guys check on loot tables on the main bosses. the 3 telkin's and typhon.
Looking at their epic chest's loot tables shows some differences between act 3 telkine and typhoon. Keep in mind the the records listed link to several other loot records each and those may link to another loot record before finally reaching the actual item records. So I'm sure there's plenty of crossovers. However epic typhoon's seems to be slightly higher than epic act3 telkine's.

For example a record for the telkine may read:
Records\Item\LootTables\Weapons\MasterTables\All_4 9-51.dbr
whereas typhoon's would read ...\All_51-53.dbr.

Another example would be for the telkine to have:
...\MasterTables\Unique\Bow_E03.dbr
typhoon would have ...\MasterTables\Unique\Bow_L01.dbr
I'm not positive but that looks like Epic Act 3 bows, and Legendary act 1 bows.

So which is best to farm would really depend on the "level" of the item you are looking for.

Xaece
07-19-2006, 11:18 PM
Looking at their epic chest's loot tables shows some differences between act 3 telkine and typhoon. Keep in mind the the records listed link to several other loot records each and those may link to another loot record before finally reaching the actual item records. So I'm sure there's plenty of crossovers. However epic typhoon's seems to be slightly higher than epic act3 telkine's.

For example a record for the telkine may read:
Records\Item\LootTables\Weapons\MasterTables\All_4 9-51.dbr
whereas typhoon's would read ...\All_51-53.dbr.

Another example would be for the telkine to have:
...\MasterTables\Unique\Bow_E03.dbr
typhoon would have ...\MasterTables\Unique\Bow_L01.dbr
I'm not positive but that looks like Epic Act 3 bows, and Legendary act 1 bows.

So which is best to farm would really depend on the "level" of the item you are looking for.
The problem with just glancing at all those, is you're not looking at whats contained within the loot tables.

To put it simple, there are MANY epic and legendary items that drop, that are not referenced in ANY of the loot tables.

reggie
07-20-2006, 06:08 AM
well i did think of that. Telkine having lower value item drops then typhon.
Then again i've had 200 armor drops from the telkine which should be about the max i can wear for lvl 50. Unless something can be 200 armor and though the def is definately up there but its got lesser stats. Did not seem so though.

So im not entirely sure if telkine drops less valued items then typhon.

The Rock-man
07-20-2006, 09:30 AM
Question when damage is work out does the physical Damage (Inc Str Bonus) get worked out first then a % get converted to pierce damage the dex bonus worked out.
Like this Itemdamage*((strength/500)+1))+(strength*0.04)=Base Damage (BD)
BD*%pierce=Base Pierce (BP)
Total Pierce(TP)=(BP * ((dexterity/650)+1))+(dexterity*0.03)
Giving Total Damage of (BD*1-%pierce)+TP??


As this will effect which is best out of Str and Dex. If it works as above then +X Str beats +X Dex for pure damage. As the amount of Pierce damage is the same but but normal damage is higher with +Str.
If So then Dex only needed to reach item req and to boost OA & DA.

Galefury
07-20-2006, 11:28 AM
exp formula:
((monsterLevel*15)+((monsterLevel-averagePlayerLevel)*(averagePlayerLevel/3.5)))*(1+(monsterExperience/100))
No Cap listed.
I did some math and max exp should actually be gained when player level is half of monster level. The added amount from being lower level turns out to be pretty small, though.

For PL=1/2 ML, the monster's level is twice the player's level, maximum exp:
Exp = 15*ML + ML^2/14
For a level 70 enemy this would be 1050+350 = 1400 maximum exp, modified further by the monsters exp modifier. For a level 10 Enemy: 150+7 = 157. As you can see the amount added due to being higher level is pretty small especially on lower levels.

For PL = ML, same level as the monster:
Exp = 15*ML
For a level 70 enemy this would be 1050, about 25% less than what you would get if you were only at level 35.

For PL = 1,5 ML, you are 50% higher level than the monster:
Exp = 15*ML - ML^2/4.6667
For a level 70 enemy this would be 1050 - 1050, 0 exp.
For a level 10 enemy it would be 150 - 21 = 129.
It doesn't matter for the level 70 enemy, though, as your max level is 65.
To get 0 exp from a level 10 enemy you would have to be level 19. To get no exp from a level 1 Enemy you would have to be level 7. Maybe I will test this.

In practice this means that on low levels higher level enemies are always much better for training if your kill speed doesn't drop too much. The progression is linear, though, which means later in the game, in epic and especially legendary, differences of 5 levels between the enemies aren't going to change much. Just kill where your killspeed is highest. On high levels it's better to kill lots of small enemies than few higher level ones. Those little gnome demons, skeletons, zombies, and so on. The more the better.

Exp modifiers seem to be 0 gor all monsters other than traps, unique monsters and bosses. Traps have mods like 150, meaning 2.5 times as much exp. Nessos (the centaur boss) has 750, meaning 8.5 times more exp than other monsters of the same level. Mulgor Flamespear, a centaur hero has 500, meaning 6 times more exp. Typhon has a modifier of 2000, meaning 21 times more exp. With a monster level of 74 this should be a maximum of 31500 exp, at player level 37. At level 50 you should get about 30000, at level 60 about 28500. As you can see the difference is very small. But the experience gained from Typhon should definitely be much higher than what is gotten from regular enemies, no matter what level your character has.
Edit: Well, I just noticed that legendary Typhon is level 72, not 74. It's still about the same amount of exp, my level 52 char gets 28920 exp for killing him.

BTW: Manticore and dragon lich have modifiers of 2500, the hydra has 3000. Doesn't exactly make hydra runs viable, though. :D

Xaece
07-20-2006, 09:35 PM
Good analysis of the equation Galefury. Was something I would have liked to get to, but was working on other things.

DBaron
07-21-2006, 03:37 AM
Quick question regarding calculated strike and volley. When volley kicks in does it count as one attack in the calculated strike sequence, or three? Furthermore, if I am on the fourth attack of calculated strike, and volley kicks in, do I get 3 attacks at the 156% bonus?
Can volley and lethal strike combine to give me 3 attacks at 500% damage?

Xaece
07-21-2006, 03:44 AM
Quick question regarding calculated strike and volley. When volley kicks in does it count as one attack in the calculated strike sequence, or three? Should count as three attacks. I know the Dual-wield and Shield procs count as two when they trigger.


Furthermore, if I am on the fourth attack of calculated strike, and volley kicks in, do I get 3 attacks at the 156% bonus?
No clue how Calc Strike works with Dual-Wield and Shield procs, let alone with Volley. My gut says, one attack gets the bonus not all of them, but never know.

Can volley and lethal strike combine to give me 3 attacks at 500% damage?
This is a no. Volley will NOT trigger on a Lethal Strike. Volley will only trigger on a Default Attack, Marksman, Calc Strike, or Onslaught. These are all listed as "Set as Left Mouse".

Viperace
07-21-2006, 04:21 AM
exp formula:
((monsterLevel*15)+((monsterLevel-averagePlayerLevel)*(averagePlayerLevel/3.5)))*(1+(monsterExperience/100))
No Cap listed.

Beside the difference between player and monster level, the player level itself plays a role in the modifier.

There doesn't appears to be XP penalty for fighting higher level monster. Power leveling possible :D

But, what is this parameter: monsterExperience ?
Which monster gives the overall best monsterExperience ? thats the question to determine what is the best place to train xp.

Felexitus
07-21-2006, 04:53 AM
i just wanted to confirm xaeces thoughts about CS and volley, its 3 seperate attacks, you get 2 CS charges and one big hit or 3 charges during the volley and it doesnt trigger on Lethal strike

Galefury
07-21-2006, 06:19 AM
Beside the difference between player and monster level, the player level itself plays a role in the modifier.

There doesn't appears to be XP penalty for fighting higher level monster. Power leveling possible :D

But, what is this parameter: monsterExperience ?
Which monster gives the overall best monsterExperience ? thats the question to determine what is the best place to train xp.

The player level plays a role, yes, but it's not very big. As I said you get maximum exp if the monster level is twice as high as the player level. Lower than that means a bit less exp, higher than that means a bit less exp. Generally that effect is greatly overshadowed by the raw linear effect of monster level. Which means generally train against high level monsters early.

Later though that linear growth can be overshadowed by greater killspeed against slightly lower leveled monsters. Another thing to consider on Legendary is that if you die the exp loss will be huge, which means you cant level in an area with even a slight chance of dying.

This was just a clarification/repetition of what I said earlier btw.

Now about the monster experience parameter, I already mentioned that too. It looks like all monsters except bosses, heros and traps have a modifier of 0.
White/Yellow monsters: 1x Exp
Traps: usually 2.5x Exp, dark Obelisks give more
Hero monsters (orange): about 5x to 11x I guess, but didn't check a lot of those
Bosses (the quest guys, the epic/legendary bosses): about 8x to 31x Exp

Icehawk
07-21-2006, 12:16 PM
Interesting, that makes sense since I notice my experience bar rising more quickly when I battle through a swarm than when I kill a boss.

Kaleb
07-21-2006, 03:53 PM
Forgive me if I couldnt find this with search. Do skills only go +4 over the base skill level limit? I was able to confirm with 2 seperate characters but wanted the "official" confirmation. Thank you. :)

Galefury
07-21-2006, 04:02 PM
How high it can be raised depends on the skill. Some can go 4 over their maximum level, some 5, some only 2 points.

The Rock-man
07-22-2006, 06:38 AM
How High over the min a Skill can go depends on the max number of points in the skill IE X/Y where Y in the Max spendable number of points.

And X is capped at Y+(Y/3) for every skill i seen in game.
IE Y=15 X =20 etc.

Edit: After what Galefury said this is not true for all skill. (It was just a general obs, any way i beleave no skill in game goes no more than 1/3 Y above cap, barring mods.)

Galefury
07-22-2006, 07:41 AM
No. It's an extra field in the database. For example it's 12 for Battle Standard, which has a maximum level of 10.

The Rock-man
07-22-2006, 08:51 AM
No. It's an extra field in the database. For example it's 12 for Battle Standard, which has a maximum level of 10.

oh well I should of realized there be at lest 1 that does not follow the pattern.
The expection that proves the rule as the saying goes.

reggie
07-23-2006, 04:01 PM
I have a helm with % damage reflection on it.
Does it count only when my head gets hit or does it count for all body parts ?

50% chance of damage reflection of 24% on all body parts seems really nice if thats the case.

Also i have a ring, Seal of Hephaestus...

It has 10% chance of 117% damage resistance. This is applied to any body part that gets hit ?
Normally if an armor piece his this it only applies to the piece itself right ?

Maenad
07-23-2006, 06:19 PM
No. It's an extra field in the database. For example it's 12 for Battle Standard, which has a maximum level of 10.

Is there any place that has a listing of the caps for each skill?

Galefury
07-23-2006, 07:41 PM
If it's on armor it usually works on every body part, except if it adds a flat armor bonus I think. I'm not sure though.

You can view the caps for each skill in the art manager. Just get one of the unpacked databases, copy it into a mod database folder you made, and view the skills. The field name is "Ultimate Level".

Maenad
07-23-2006, 08:19 PM
You can view the caps for each skill in the art manager. Just get one of the unpacked databases, copy it into a mod database folder you made, and view the skills. The field name is "Ultimate Level".

That's awesome, thanks!

DBaron
07-25-2006, 02:27 AM
Are traps affected by items that increase projectile speed? Secondly are skills like traps and decoy affected casting speed items?

Felexitus
07-25-2006, 06:24 AM
no traps arent effected by items at all, only by auras.
yes they are effected by casting speed

reggie
07-25-2006, 06:53 AM
guys what exactly is the dodge cap ?

Also has anyone calculated how defensive ability affects dodging ?

Archmag
07-25-2006, 09:31 AM
Now about the monster experience parameter, I already mentioned that too. It looks like all monsters except bosses, heros and traps have a modifier of 0.
That seems not totally true. Just started the game and created a test char. Level 1 Char got for killing lvl 1 Satyr - 14 and 15 exp (must be because of the rounding of numbers), after lvl 1 Boar he also got 15 exp. But fighting against lvl 2 Satyr he got 30 Exp and lvl 2 Boar - 45, so not all creatures are the same in exp.

Galefury
07-25-2006, 09:39 AM
Are you sure that the boar wasn't level 3?

Xaece
07-25-2006, 11:55 PM
guys what exactly is the dodge cap ?

Also has anyone calculated how defensive ability affects dodging ?
There is no Dodge cap, to get any 'decent' amount of "Miss Rate" from high DA, you need in excess of 1000 DA over the attackers OA. (Check my Shield Block Formula thread for more info, and an excel calculating actual miss chance)

How dodge is works is not additive. If you have 25% Dodge from the skill in Warfare, a 10% Dodge on a weapon (Trickery), and 15% Dodge from armor (Guile). Then your total chance to Dodge would be as follows ( 1-.25) * ( 1-.10) * (1-.15) = 57.375% Chance to be hit, meaning a 100-57=43% chance to dodge. Essentially making it 'impossible' to dodge all attacks.

Dodge Attacks is melee only
Avoid Projectiles is ranged only

EDIT: Fix'd calculation error, forgot one step. Actually dodge chance is 47%
EDIT2 thanks to Sykur: Fix'd the above calculation, I claim sleep deprivation for why I said 47% after doing 100-57 = 47.. Obviously its really 43%. :whistle:

reggie
07-26-2006, 06:38 AM
alright thanx alot. So bad idea to invest in defensive. I've been testing some with defensive ability to see if it made a noticable difference. I had it up to 1100 but cant say for sure it mattered any.

About avoid projectiles. I've always asumed it works on archers but it doesnt seem to work at all. Even with 30+ % avoid and letting a single archer shoot on me while i stand still he never ever misses.
Though i could swear at times i saw him hit me and me not taking damage but it was hard to tell since i had my hp regen runnin lol. I doubt it though.

Archmag
07-26-2006, 10:56 AM
Are you sure that the boar wasn't level 3?
I am sure. It is like 5 minutes to check. Start the new game. Level 2 Boars are right north of the village at fields, level 2 Satyrs on the way to the Satyr Shaman.

Galefury
07-26-2006, 11:25 AM
Looks like you were right. Boars have an exp value of 50, meaning 1.5x exp. Dusky boars have 75. Monstrous Boars have either 75 or 250. Good find. :D

Switchblade
07-26-2006, 03:41 PM
Ahoy, I have read though most of this thread, and my eyes are kind of sore, I just have one question that somebody might be able to answer. I read earlier that most +% modifiers do not stack to a total, rather, they are calculated seperately. However 'reduced damage from undead %" stack to a total, so if you have a combined total of -% damage from undead that is 100, you take 0 damage every time.

I was just wondering what else this 'stack to total' applies to? Does +% elemental damage stack like this? Say 3 items each giving +20% cold damage, and a basic staff that did 10 cold damage. Would the mods stack to make +60% cold damage (16 damage) or would they apply individually (((10 +2) + 2.4) + 2.88) = 17.28 ?

Felexitus
07-26-2006, 03:55 PM
16 damage
blabla 10 characters

Xaece
07-26-2006, 10:11 PM
alright thanx alot. So bad idea to invest in defensive. I've been testing some with defensive ability to see if it made a noticable difference. I had it up to 1100 but cant say for sure it mattered any.

About avoid projectiles. I've always asumed it works on archers but it doesnt seem to work at all. Even with 30+ % avoid and letting a single archer shoot on me while i stand still he never ever misses.
Though i could swear at times i saw him hit me and me not taking damage but it was hard to tell since i had my hp regen runnin lol. I doubt it though.
That last bit is how it works. The arrows will "hit" but you take no damage. Wierd, I know.


Ahoy, I have read though most of this thread, and my eyes are kind of sore, I just have one question that somebody might be able to answer. I read earlier that most +% modifiers do not stack to a total, rather, they are calculated seperately. However 'reduced damage from undead %" stack to a total, so if you have a combined total of -% damage from undead that is 100, you take 0 damage every time.

I was just wondering what else this 'stack to total' applies to? Does +% elemental damage stack like this? Say 3 items each giving +20% cold damage, and a basic staff that did 10 cold damage. Would the mods stack to make +60% cold damage (16 damage) or would they apply individually (((10 +2) + 2.4) + 2.88) = 17.28 ?
May want to read through the thread again when your eyes aren't sore. We have never said that +% do not stack to a total.

We have said certain things, such as Dodge Attacks, Avoid Projectiles, and Damage Resistance are known to work seperately. Everything else works out to a total before adding it.

Switchblade
07-27-2006, 04:26 AM
May want to read through the thread again when your eyes aren't sore. We have never said that +% do not stack to a total.

We have said certain things, such as Dodge Attacks, Avoid Projectiles, and Damage Resistance are known to work seperately. Everything else works out to a total before adding it.

You really don't need to be sarcastic. The amount of info I read, surely you can understand the error.

Thank you for the information.

Xaece
07-27-2006, 11:26 AM
You really don't need to be sarcastic. The amount of info I read, surely you can understand the error.

Thank you for the information.
Hmm, think you mistook me. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I was merely suggesting that perhaps there is other information that you misread. ya know, so you might want to read it again to make sure you got the info right?

sykur
07-28-2006, 02:26 PM
How dodge is works is not additive. If you have 25% Dodge from the skill in Warfare, a 10% Dodge on a weapon (Trickery), and 15% Dodge from armor (Guile). Then your total chance to Dodge would be as follows ( 1-.25) * ( 1-.10) * (1-.15) = 57.375% Chance to be hit, meaning a 100-57=47% chance to dodge. Essentially making it 'impossible' to dodge all attacks.

EDIT: Fix'd calculation error, forgot one step. Actually dodge chance is 47%


Since when is 100-57=47?

Should that be 43? I'm by no means a math whiz but my calculator can't be wrong :)

Btw keep this thread alive it has been a great read and keep up the good work!

Xaece
07-28-2006, 06:23 PM
Since when is 100-57=47?

Should that be 43? I'm by no means a math whiz but my calculator can't be wrong :)

Btw keep this thread alive it has been a great read and keep up the good work!
You're quite right. :) Was like, 4am I did that post, so :knockout:

AngelicPenguin
07-30-2006, 11:07 PM
Hmm, this should stay on the main page ;)

blank_blank
07-31-2006, 01:00 AM
But yes, that does mean some skills are less useful late in the game than early. Since you can retrain skills, it's not much of an issue though.

i think casters stand to be disadvantaged at this, since melee and ranged chars will have more base damage due to more powerful weapons, plus added damage due to higher STR and DEX while casters will just be stuck with the maxed out skill and just reply on INT to increase the damage. is that so? :(

i am an elementalist and basically use ice shards due to no cooldown, if I have to untrain all my skills in ice shards, that would cost a lot and theres no skill to replace it since chain lightning has a long cooldown..

Beaginator
07-31-2006, 01:24 AM
i think casters stand to be disadvantaged at this, since melee and ranged chars will have more base damage due to more powerful weapons, plus added damage due to higher STR and DEX while casters will just be stuck with the maxed out skill and just reply on INT to increase the damage. is that so? :(

i am an elementalist and basically use ice shards due to no cooldown, if I have to untrain all my skills in ice shards, that would cost a lot and theres no skill to replace it since chain lightning has a long cooldown..

I wouldn't worry about it. Ice shards is more than viable all the way through to the end of legendary. Just make sure you use a lot of +% cold damage, +% elemental damage, +% casting speed and +skill gear. I have +4 storm skills and that affects ice shards itself and all of it's upgrades for a large boost in power. Combine this with the squall debuff, eye of the storm and heart of frost and your damage will scale just fine.

blank_blank
07-31-2006, 01:55 AM
i see.. i still am currently in normal mode, and i have 1 ring that is +12% INT and +7% energy, and the other one is +20%INT, and my amulet is +22% elemental damage, so are they enough already to scale ice shards' power?

Galefury
07-31-2006, 06:54 AM
You will need more, and you will get more. Don't worry. For normal Ice Shard and its upgrades without any other boosters are quite sufficient when maxed.

neviem
08-02-2006, 08:00 AM
Singing with blades
...
Modifiers

The general rules of thumb for 'does this skill affect that other skill or weapon' are fairly simple.

If a skill is passive, it affects everything you do
If a skill is an activated buff or a constant aura, it affects everything you do (and potentially everything your teammates or pets do)
If a skill is a modifier for a base skill, it ONLY affects that skill.
...


My question is:
does skill lucky hit (which is modifier for skill Calculated strike) affects with bonus +95% pierce damage only the piercing damage done by Calculated strike or the whole piercing damage?

Because you write that it should modify only the base skill, but that would mean that with both maxed skill the max bonus would be 103*1.95=200.85 instead of several thousands if it would modify the whole piercing damage.

Felexitus
08-02-2006, 08:28 AM
no, you need to use calc strike to have a chance to get a lucky strike

lucky strike gives its bonus to your base attack, no matter if calc just triggers nor not

wolfcub
08-02-2006, 08:38 AM
...

These notes about OA ONLY apply to melee! Ranged attacks and staff attacks always hit, never crit. DA works for anyone against melee critters of course.



i have a question and i apologise if it has been answered somewhere before. ranged attacks never crit? then why do i get red numbers appearing when i get shot at by enemy archers? i only switched on the crit display sometime later in playing. i don't even know if it was always the case or did something change in the patch to 1.11?

neviem
08-02-2006, 08:49 AM
no, you need to use calc strike to have a chance to get a lucky strike

lucky strike gives its bonus to your base attack, no matter if calc just triggers nor not

I know that i have to use calc strike, but Phillip wrote in his post that modifier will only affect his parent skill. that is why i was asking if it will modify the whole damage or the piercing dmg of the calc strike.

Felexitus
08-02-2006, 09:33 AM
hmmmm xaece says with resilience he can keep up call of the hunt permanently.
ardor definitely doesnt work only with onslaught, more like as long as onslaught is active.

lucky strike can trigger without calc strike discharging. it cannot just affect calc strike

Marcellus
08-02-2006, 09:56 AM
I have a question about monster's damage resistance. If I understand it correctly, Philips original post says that by default you absorb 66% of physical damage up to the armour value at that location, more if you have absorption bonuses.

So my question is, do monsters only get physical damage protection from the crappy equipment that they wear (if they're wearing any at all?), or do some/all of them have some kind of racial armour value/absorption%

Ps. Also, Philip describes this as a kind of "physical resistance" and then goes on to say "all resists are capped at 80%"... is it therefore correct to assume that this absorption is capped at 80% as well?

neloangelo
08-02-2006, 12:07 PM
I have a serious question for Philip:

On the first page of the post under "Intelligence" he describes how intelligence adds elemental damage to our attacks.
We need to know if intelligence adds to SPELL damage and not STAFF damage.
For example if my lightning bolt tooltip shows 100 damage and i add 500 points in intelligence the tooltip continues to show 100 damage.
So what exactly is the situation on this matter?
I mean there are people that like to play only with spells and not with staff attack. Why the invested points on inteligence and the +% elemental damage from items dont show on the spell tooltip? And how could i know that my lightning bolt damage DID change with those 500 points of inteligence and the +200% lightning damage of my items, from the moment that i cant see the difference in tooltip or in any other way?
This is something serious because if inteligence and +% elemental do not add damage to spells then all exclusive spell casters should put only few points in inteligence for equipment requirements and the rest on health or dexterity for DA.
Waiting Philips answer (or anyone who knows for sure).
Thanks.

Felexitus
08-02-2006, 12:32 PM
this has been discussed a LOT. the shown damage is a joke ignore it. +%elemental damage and int do work on spells

The Rock-man
08-02-2006, 01:54 PM
See this post got medierra saying INT effects Spells Linky (http://www.titanquest.net/skills/7177-intelligence-spells.html#post62320).

Ardens
08-02-2006, 02:26 PM
this has been discussed a LOT. the shown damage is a joke ignore it. +%elemental damage and int do work on spells

A joke and a major flaw. Not showing the correct spell damage that said spells do is just ridiculous.

-Ardens

Mad_Bombardier
08-03-2006, 01:12 PM
Nope, arrows/staff shots/magic attacks always hit, there isn't really much of a tohit calculation (or well, there is, but it's so soft that any melee character is likely going to either be always hitting, or always hitting and getting some level of crit on top of that)

If arrows always (or near always) hit, why am I missing? Upon entering Act3, my arrows routinely passed through Tigermen champions (the black panther ones) and later through Dragonian Lancers. Occasionally, I would hear a thunk and see the Tigerman move his shield signifying a block and the arrow deflect to the side. But. I'm pretty sure my damage is greater than the absorption of that puny buckler. So, why didn't the rest of the damage pass through? Do shields blocks on ranged attacks deflect 100% of the attack? Most times, however, I ran for my life as a slew of Tigermen came barrelling at me. When I stopped to take shots my arrow would pass through the lead Tigerman (puncture skill but doing no damage) and striking or killing lesser Tigers behind him. Other times with no Puncture, the arrow would land in the Tiger and do no damage. Even if their armor was aborbing my max damage, 33% of damage should always be done. I found that about 1 in 4 shots actually damaged these Tiger champs (3/4 doing NO damage whatsoever), leading me to believe that there must be a pretty significant calculation for ranged attacks.

For clarification, my DEX is 220+, enough to use the best bows in Act3 Normal level, so there shouldn't be too much of an OA/DA discrepancy for that 'minor' tohit calc. Any thoughts?

Mad_B

Xaece
08-03-2006, 01:38 PM
For clarification, my DEX is 220+, enough to use the best bows in Act3 Normal level, so there shouldn't be too much of an OA/DA discrepancy for that 'minor' tohit calc. Any thoughts?

Mad_B
Arrows always hit, barring Avoid Projectiles bonuses, and Shield Blocks. Neither of which can the archer reduce the chance of. Your OA has zero effect on your ability to actually hit the enemy with bows.

Tigermen, all of them, are the ultimate archer's bane in this game. They have as much if not more Dex (The importance of this is it increases the chance to block arrows by LARGE amounts) than the average archer will have, in addition to the above abilities to ignore your arrows. Depending on your equipment it is possible for shields to block more than enough of the damage to make it seem like you deal no damage (My Warden on Epic, while using Quick Recovery takes no appreciable damage from a pack of Archers).

You also don't mention anything about using Study Prey, and/or Call of the Hunt(w/ Exploit Weakness). Using either of these will allow you to surpass the tigermen's ability to block your arrows (though it will have no effect on their Avoidance capabilities).

The other possibility for your arrows passing through tigermen, though this applies to more than just tigermen. Is a somewhat glitchy "hit box" of enemies. My Assassin who uses her Kunai every battle, and multiple times, has seen it where it clips through an enemy (such as Satyrs, on epic or normal) and it does not inflict the damage (Kunai, aka Throwing Knives, are auto-hit like spells). Other times, I've have her Kunai miss by more than an arms length, and pop it hits the enemy and he bleeds to death in an instant. I am unsure of what causes this erraticness, but for the most part it has no major effect on survivability (since it tends to happen very infrequently). Which is why in your case I think its just because Tigermen are the bane of archers as described above.

Xaece
08-03-2006, 01:46 PM
I have a question about monster's damage resistance. If I understand it correctly, Philips original post says that by default you absorb 66% of physical damage up to the armour value at that location, more if you have absorption bonuses.

So my question is, do monsters only get physical damage protection from the crappy equipment that they wear (if they're wearing any at all?), or do some/all of them have some kind of racial armour value/absorption%

Ps. Also, Philip describes this as a kind of "physical resistance" and then goes on to say "all resists are capped at 80%"... is it therefore correct to assume that this absorption is capped at 80% as well?
All "Resistances" cap out at 80%.

Then there are the exceptions. All Absorbtions have no cap, but it is unsure of how they stack (two 50% Damage Absorbtions, is it 100% or 75%? My bet is on 75%). (There is always only one source of Armor Absorbtion, any bonuses to Armor Absorbtion increase it by a percent and it has been proven with sufficiently ludicrous amounts of +Armor Absorbtion bonuses to go over 100%. To reach 100% you need a total of +50% Armor Absorbtion, see earlier in this thread which describes the testing that was done)

The other exception is "Damage Resistance", which does not stack additively ( 20% + 20% =/= 40%. It is instead ( 1 - ( 1 - 0.2 ) * ( 1 - 0.2 ) ) = 36%.).


As for your question about monsters, they have an innate "Damage Resist" that players can not get. In the majority of cases it is 0%, others can have as high as 60%. Most of the bosses have around 20% though, instead they just have crazy *** health amounts.

Xaece
08-03-2006, 01:58 PM
hmmmm xaece says with resilience he can keep up call of the hunt permanently. Due to the buff nature of Adrenaline, the modifier to it (resilience) effects all actions while adrenaline is active. :)

ardor definitely doesnt work only with onslaught, more like as long as onslaught is active. Same deal here. Onslaught is a ChargedLinear skill, it is also the only skill of its kind in the game. All the mods to it apply as long as you have the onslaught buff on. An interesting effect of this, is the full Onslaught buff is only achieved by being at maximum charge (hence the ChargedLinear), however the modifiers to Onslaught are at 100% effect so long as Onslaught has 1 charge remaining.

The way my Assassin uses Onslaught is more for the longer duration of the modifiers to Onslaught then the damage bonus of Onslaught itself (She has well over 500 Str making the +70%ish bonus she gets from full Onslaught rather, small. But she finds the move speed slow, damage/pierce resist, and attack/move speed bonus invaluable)


lucky strike can trigger without calc strike discharging. it cannot just affect calc strikeCalculated Strike, as I said above, works definitely then Onslaught. Instead of a ChargedLinear skill, it is a ChargedFinale. From people who have tested Lucky Strike, it has been said it only applies to the Calculated Strike hit. In my testing I have found this to be true as well. Looking at how the skill is setup, it is a ChargedFinale instead of a ChargedLinear, the differences lie in the code(Which is something we can't view directly, but through gameplay can discover how they work). ChargedFinale's only take place when they are discharged, which means any modifiers to a ChargedFinale skill will also only take place when the skill is discharged.

Sorry for the bad news on LuckyStrike happening only 1 in 12 attacks. (Calc Strike is 1 in 4, Lucky Strike is 1 in 3 Calc Strikes, hence in 1 12 attacks is a Lucky Strike). With that said, my Assassin -does- have 1 pt in LuckyStrike (she also has like +5 Rogue skills though..) and I find that 1pt well worth it for when I am fighting bosses, I can really tell the difference between a normal Calc Strike, and a LuckyStrike.

AngelicPenguin
08-03-2006, 02:18 PM
Same deal here. Onslaught is a ChargedLinear skill, it is also the only skill of its kind in the game. All the mods to it apply as long as you have the onslaught buff on. An interesting effect of this, is the full Onslaught buff is only achieved by being at maximum charge (hence the ChargedLinear), however the modifiers to Onslaught are at 100% effect so long as Onslaught has 1 charge remaining.

I didn't realize this. So just to clarify, if I have Ardor and want it's increased movement speed, my Onslaught needs to have at least one charge going. Once I quit fighting for a bit, my movement speed returns back to normal.

-Matthew

Xaece
08-03-2006, 02:24 PM
I didn't realize this. So just to clarify, if I have Ardor and want it's increased movement speed, my Onslaught needs to have at least one charge going. Once I quit fighting for a bit, my movement speed returns back to normal.

-Matthew
Absolutely correct, once all of the charges dissipate that is when Ardor "shuts off". Otherwise you benefit from the full effect of Ardor. =)

(There is of course the issue with the Attack Speed from Ardor not displaying properly, and the Attack Speed caps that are not correctly capping. Which are known issues by the dev's, so..)

awesley
08-03-2006, 10:38 PM
Whew, takes a while to read through this thread, but I saw no mention of my question so I'll just add to the end :-)

I have a weapon that has a modifier "70% slower attack for 5 seconds", ie any creature I hit with it will then attack 70% slower for 5 seconds.

I also have a completed relic with the bonus "50% slower attack for 6 seconds".

What happens if I apply the relic to the weapon? I can imagine several possibilities, some of them nonsensical (eg 120% slower attack, umm, does it go backwards?? lol).

This type of bonus is showing up regularly in late epic.

regards, Anthony

Galefury
08-04-2006, 06:46 AM
According to some guy who experimented a bit with it:
Weapon + Relic = same slow as before
Weapon + Ring with slow = more slow

fragal
08-04-2006, 10:40 AM
i would think it'd be something like:
1*(1-.7)*(1-.5)=15% attack speed

Mad_Bombardier
08-04-2006, 10:49 AM
i would think it'd be something like:
1*(1-.7)*(1-.5)=15% attack speed

As far as I know, there is no multiplying of multipliers in TQ. Its all stacked, with caps (171% attack speed, 80% resist) to keep things from getting out of hand.

Galefury
08-04-2006, 11:52 AM
Actually there is for some stuff. Damage resistance and dodge. But I'm thinking slow just stacks by adding it.

mlaird
08-04-2006, 12:01 PM
According to some guy who experimented a bit with it:
Weapon + Relic = same slow as before
Weapon + Ring with slow = more slow

With those numbers, you'd hit the monster/boss minimum speed pretty quickly.
Monsters min speed = 20%
boss = 50%

so 70% slow + 70% slow = 80% slow (or 50% against a boss)

which is really the same thing as 70% slow unless you log lots of numbers.
Can't explain the ring = more slow... i haven't seen that link, I'm curious.

softflow
08-04-2006, 01:19 PM
Question about offensive ability (OA):

Does this matter at all with a staff attack? I know staves can't "crit" but are they allowed the +110%...+150% etc. based off of your OA over the mobs DA?

Or, is OA simply a physical weapon (non-magical damage) sort of ability?

Galefury
08-04-2006, 03:17 PM
OA = melee only thing. For any form of ranged attack it doesn't matter.

Chaos
08-04-2006, 05:16 PM
hey there first of all keep up the good work!:happy:
ive had a lot of things explained but got some questions left.
for 1 if u use an item with +% exp gain and u use an exp shrine at the same time how much exp do you get
and do you get more exp from a quest if u complete it with an exp shrine? because i think it does, i completed a quest with exp shrine and got 1.5 lvl instantly isnt that a bit much?

o and btw just a bug i think that the quest of mysterious tomb from normal and nightmare(or whats it called here) are switched because in normal you get 65k exp and on nightmare you get only 9k

thats al for today cya all:happy:

Brightspear
08-04-2006, 07:28 PM
o and btw just a bug i think that the quest of mysterious tomb from normal and nightmare(or whats it called here) are switched because in normal you get 65k exp and on nightmare you get only 9k

I had that bug with one character, no idea what caused it but I didn't object to 65k xp in normal difficulty, lol.

Anyway, I have a question - does anyone know if chests are tagged by monster type and can thus drop monster uniques? I'm fairly sure that I got my Stonebinder Cuffs (gorgon drop) from the Majestic chest Medusa and her sisters were guarding, although at least one person has said I must be mistaken. Happy enough to be proved wrong if that is the case, but it would be nice to know for sure if chests can drop monster uniques or not.

Felexitus
08-04-2006, 08:22 PM
nope the monsters have to wear them. chests can never drop any monster stuff, not even basic

Chaos
08-05-2006, 05:17 AM
glad to know that im not the only one with the bug:happy: but i didnt get my answer about the exp
(btw does anyone else has +% exp gear? and if u guys have what and how much? )

(wannna get as much +% exp as possible):happy:

Batman
08-05-2006, 05:40 AM
Been using this for ages, can't find anything better:-

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/aprobinson/Athlon.jpg

Chaos
08-05-2006, 07:04 PM
nice 1 where did u find it
i only have amulets with exp gain
this is my best 1
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2769/expamuletbf5.th.jpg (http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=expamuletbf5.jpg):happy:

Chaos
08-05-2006, 07:05 PM
:confused: oops srry you cant see it like this:P:confused:

gwedoberry
08-06-2006, 12:35 PM
A few questions regarding +skills and max atkspd

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just 2 quick questions:

1. I heard there is a cap on the number of "+x to All Skills in All Masteries" items that affect you, is that true? Or can you get as many as you want?

If so, does it apply only to the "+x to All Skills in All Masteries" or does it apply to even the "+x to All Skills in xxx Mastery" or even the "+x to [insert skill name]" mods?

2. I read somewhere (if I remember correctly, in Marcus's info thread) that attack speed is capped at 300%? I am currently in Epic and it 'seems' my attack speed is capped at 190%. That's what it shows in my character screen anyway. Any thoughts?

Any answers appreciated =D

TSS
08-06-2006, 02:31 PM
One of the forum members looked in the editor and found that the attack speed cap is "supposed" to be 300% but there is a bug preventing it from getting up there.

It is mentioned on page 18 of this thread.