Battle Standard, wow?

[Kross]

I usually just stick 1 point in this baby but I have been playing around with builds and synergies and I've noticed something very strange about this skill. When I max it out, it doesn't really give any real good bonuses per point but for some reason my crits go from an average of like 600 each to 2000ish with this things bonus, whatever that bonus may be. It does give like a bonus of 100+ damage in the end but is that really what is increasing my crits by 300%+?
My character is lvl 30 at the moment and dual wielding Juques.

[sensation]

+300%, that is a bith much...

But battle standard gives +1 to all skills. What with some skills can already give extra OA, + there is also an OA bonus with Battle standard. It also has a hidden damage bonus ( or am I wrong?)


EDIT:
I just noticed that with dream stealer on level 1 and synergy on lvl 2, I do criticals hits of 700...
My dps is 142...

[Dereliction]

Originally Posted by sensation

+300%, that is a bith much...

But battle standard gives +1 to all skills. What with some skills can already give extra OA, + there is also an OA bonus with Battle standard. It also has a hidden damage bonus ( or am I wrong?)

I'm not sure about a "hidden" damage bonus with Battle Standard but Triumph, the synergy for Battle Standard, provides -40% Damage Resistance (i.e., Physical damage) to enemies within range. This can have a serious implication in the targets ability (or inability) to resist the base raw hit your do, actually causing a multiplicative effect on the raw damage against targets that do not have DR to begin. That is to say, your critical hits will become that much more sizable.

Originally Posted by sensation

EDIT:
I just noticed that with dream stealer on level 1 and synergy on lvl 2, I do criticals hits of 700...
My dps is 142...

It isn't a question related to your DPS--which is a combination of your attack speed and your average hit--but instead one related to your average hit alone. For example, if you do 250 physical damage per 1 second swing, your DPS is 250. To extend this, if you do 500 physical damage per 2 second swing, your DPS is still 250 even though your individual hits are much larger.

When it comes to pursuing massive critical hits, not even considering piercing % and piercing damage done (which further magnify the result because they bypass any armor reduction entirely), you want to aim for large average hits and not larger average DPS. As an aside, the maximum critical hit bonus is +50%. More OA after reaching this threshold simply increases the frequency for which critical hits occur, but not the bonus %.

By way of example, a 250 average hit with +50% critical damage does 375 damage. A 500 average hit with +50% critical damage does 750 damage.

So far as I understand it, physical resistance modifiers are calculated in before any reduction by armor, by both any bonuses you have and any +/- PDR of the enemy. A -40% physical resist (ala Triumph) actually increases the raw physical damage. The 250 average hit that would normally be a 375 critical becomes 475 while the target is negatively affected by Triumph. It is quite possible that other skills (receiving +1 skill from Battle Standard) also simply increase the base hit itself, such as through an increase to Onslaught or, even more particularly, by a CS hit.

The latter would produce something fairly spectacular I expect. I think a 9/8 CS gives +178% physical damage and an additional +115 pierce. With Triumph, the bonus would be +45% (based on +1 skill, 7/6 and the -45% from the enemy serving as a bonus to the raw damage) for a total of +223% physical.

A 250 average hit transforms into a 807.5 physical base hit with CS and a 475 critical, non-CS hit in its own right (932.5 w/CS + Triumph + Crit). Some portion of that may be converted by any pierce %, as well as the +115 pierce damage from CS itself that isn't included in the above #'s. This, of course, is reduced by the targets armor to whatever degree.

As a side note, if you're already running with a high +OA (enough to reach the +50% critical bonus), the +OA from Battle Standard is fairly insignificant and will, at best, give a very mild increase to critical chance frequency--but not the size of the critical hit itself--even when you have notable +OA % involved.

P.S. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on the above--I've only recently returned to TQ after a fairly long hiatus so my memory on the mechanics of all this may be off a good bit.

[sensation]

1) He never said he has got triumph...

2) Normally peoples AS is not lower then 100 procent. Same with me. Hitting 142 (dps) with AS 130 or something.

[Dereliction]

Originally Posted by sensation

1) He never said he has got triumph...

No, but he never said he didn't either. A little bit of analysis seems to infer that Triumph is involved, however, so it isn't a far fetched conclusion by any stretch insofar as the substantially increased critical hits are concerned.

Originally Posted by sensation

2) Normally peoples AS is not lower then 100 procent. Same with me. Hitting 142 (dps) with AS 130 or something.

Well, granting that most characters past Normal Act II/III will tend to have an attack speed of 100%+, it still is irrelevant to the consideration of critical hit size. Attack speed relates to how rapidly you hit but has no influence on the resultant size of the hit (or critical hit) itself.

[Viper_Sweden]

Battle Standard has a +166 Damage bonus at 10/10.