Do you want a balance patch?

[Narcolepcy]

I would also like to see briar ward pumped, possibly to a level of usefullness comparable to stone skin or monster lure.

[F4rmerbob]

Originally Posted by Narcolepcy

I would also like to see briar ward pumped, possibly to a level of usefullness comparable to stone skin or monster lure.

So a one point wonder then?

If it is to be comparable to monster lure, I think it should be reduced to 8 points. 16 is too many for the skill.

[Galefury]

I would like a balancing patch, and I can do some DB editing to help. I haven't made any mods before, but I have often looked at the db entries for information about skill or item stats, drop probabilities and other things. So I think I know what I'm doing.

Why I think a balancing patch would be good: Useless skills and items limit build and gameplay style possibilities. Vastly overpowered skills and items take the fun out of the game. So overall a more balanced game would provide more fun. It would limit multiplayer possibilities of course, but I don't see that as a big problem. People that want to play multiplayer with friends can decide together whether they want to apply a balance patch or not. If they cant agree, too bad for them. People who want to play with strangers should just not apply patches.

So now about what I would like to see in a balancing patch: I don't really agree with not nerfing anything. If something is vastly overpowered (like Ternion originally was, or like Batrachos Greaves are now) it should be nerfed. I don't think any equipment concepts (like 2000+ DA with 100% projectile dodge, or -100% recharge) should be removed though. For example -100% recharge is already hard enough to acquire as is. Huge DA is much too easy to get if you have Batrachos Greaves though, for example. For most classes it is hard enough to get without them however. For example I can get it with my Templar, but his DPS is halved in the process, which is fine I guess. Also, equipment concepts like having extreme life regeneration, and especially having massive defense as a way to reduce damage might need a buff.

[luedtke6788]

Originally Posted by Galefury

I would like a balancing patch, and I can do some DB editing to help. I haven't made any mods before, but I have often looked at the db entries for information about skill or item stats, drop probabilities and other things. So I think I know what I'm doing.

Why I think a balancing patch would be good: Useless skills and items limit build and gameplay style possibilities. Vastly overpowered skills and items take the fun out of the game. So overall a more balanced game would provide more fun. It would limit multiplayer possibilities of course, but I don't see that as a big problem. People that want to play multiplayer with friends can decide together whether they want to apply a balance patch or not. If they cant agree, too bad for them. People who want to play with strangers should just not apply patches.

So now about what I would like to see in a balancing patch: I don't really agree with not nerfing anything. If something is vastly overpowered (like Ternion originally was, or like Batrachos Greaves are now) it should be nerfed. I don't think any equipment concepts (like 2000+ DA with 100% projectile dodge, or -100% recharge) should be removed though. For example -100% recharge is already hard enough to acquire as is. Huge DA is much too easy to get if you have Batrachos Greaves though, for example. For most classes it is hard enough to get without them however. For example I can get it with my Templar, but his DPS is halved in the process, which is fine I guess. Also, equipment concepts like having extreme life regeneration, and especially having massive defense as a way to reduce damage might need a buff.

a balance patch in the planning stage right now. your more then welcome to help us with that as soon as we start it.

[yerkyerk]

Thanks for offering help on this, Galefury I do not agree with you on the -100% recharge builds though. Imho, they're ugly overpowered builds. With the bugfix patch there's even more possiblities to get -100%recharge, because it fixes broken -%recharge affixes. Anyway, I think it'd be good to keep it in, -100% recharge that is, but limit Archmage's Clasp to 15-20% recharge and that -%recharge artifact also to 15-20%. Perhaps more changes are needed here. Ofcourse, decreasing the -%recharge on equipment would have to be substituted by another good bonus.
Everything considered, it would simply mean that if you want to go for a grossly overpowered -100% recharge build, the rest of the build is really going to suffer (like it should).
Actually, -100% anything seems kinda wrong to me - it messes up the basics of the game. I'd go for max 80% avoid projectiles as well as 80% dodge. Also, I'd like the formulae for DA to be changed so that it gets diminishing returns (just like MF did in D2). I'd also like armor to be less effective (I think it's actually sorta bugged right now), so it'll play a bigger role again.
Anyway, just how I feel about it and that's just 1 opinion.

Well, it's good to get this discussion going again and see more opinions. I can report that there's been some good progress and a 'real' discussion on the balance patch will likely be launched once the bugfix patch is released.

[Galefury]

Have you ever tried to make a -100% recharge caster? It's not as easy as it sounds, especially if you don't want to gimp your defense and damage. Also the balance patch doesn't change much about getting -100% recharge, as the affixes that were fixed aren't available on slots that don't already have recharge uniques anyway. The only one that really matters is the Golden Fleece completion bonus, as it enables using MI chests to get some recharge. And I don't think that is bad.

Also, for set items there is a nice and easy way to nerf them a little. Just move some bonuses to other items of the set. Like for example moving the 100% casting speed bonus and the chance to reduce resistance on Archmage's Clasp to the Archmage's Diadem, and moving the int bonus and health regeneration to the chest to make it at least somewhat worth using. It would keep the core functionality of the Archmage's clasp item intact, it would keep the Archmage's Regalia set the same, it would just remove all that awesome fluff from the clasp and leave them at just their core functionality: -40% rechage +40% attack speed as their only buffs. Still very worth using, but not as ridiculously awesome as before. Plus they are extremely rare, so it's OK that they are quite powerful.

[nemhauser]

Originally Posted by Galefury

Have you ever tried to make a -100% recharge caster? It's not as easy as it sounds, especially if you don't want to gimp your defense and damage.

actually it is fairly easy and your defense is not gimped. i'm not sure what you mean by damage because with 100% recharge you only use skills which are more powerful than staff in general

[F4rmerbob]

Originally Posted by nemhauser

actually it is fairly easy and your defense is not gimped. i'm not sure what you mean by damage because with 100% recharge you only use skills which are more powerful than staff in general

Why not just cap the % recharge then instead of changing items (which is significantly harder to balance properly). Something like 80% seems decent.

Something I would like to see in a balance patch is Dex, Dex/Int, and Str/Int based armor, as this is sorely missing.

Another thing that would be great is to have cast skills that do damage be affected by strength and +%damage, and poison/bleeding by dex. So Distort Reality, Distortion Wave, Dream Stealer, Distortion Field, Soften Metal (unsure of this one), Volcanic Orb/Fragmentation, Eruption, and Counter Attack would gain benefit from strength. That would give quite a bit of incentive to make a melee Evoker, and encourage different caster hybrids.

[ShaPe]

Doesn't strength already affect the physical damage of those spells?

[F4rmerbob]

Originally Posted by ShaPe

Doesn't strength already affect the physical damage of those spells?

No, it doesn't. =\