Do you want a balance patch?

[Munderbunny]

OMG I want a balancing patch. I've been playing with my girlfriend on a lan, and I've almost died of boredom like 938457394857 times. She started out as an earth caster, and normal was OK. She struggled a lot, and died a lot. I was playing dream/spirit (really just dream), and doing all the killing. Then she picked her second mastery: storm. And it was ok. She started doing some major damage by the third act, and I started having less and less to do. She puts some points in this lightning bolt, and then she turns into ******* zeus. And her lightning staff, don't even get me started--I was doing a respectable 750 dps, but she was doing 900 with her ******* STAFF! I spent my whole time casting temporal rift over a barren field of nothing because she'd already blasted all the monsters off the map. Oh, and there's nothing like targetting the furthest enemy possible with a phantom strike in the vain hopes of getting to kill something, only to arrive at my target 200ms behind some insanely long chain lightning. She starts feeling sorry for me, and starts holding back. Next thing I know, I'm standing there pounding away at some lumbering beast while she just stands behind me, watching, doing nothing. Then when the guy finally tumbles over after many a labored swing, she says, "Nice job! You kicked his ***!" OH SPARE ME THE PITY! It got so boring that before we started epic together, I decided it was time to play a character with some range, but I didn't want to play a caster as well, because then we'd be fighting over items, or even worse, fighting for the other person to take the better item, "No, really, _you_ take it. I'm fine--I haven't died in days." So, I decided to make a brigand--poison looked so cool.


But, epic is too easy because we started out epic as level 44s! Yeah, because she insisted that we leave no area of the map black on normal--"I ******* promise you, honey, we can't go there...no, it's a cliff...it just looks like that...no, zoom in, see? it's a ledge, we didn't miss an area, I promise"--oh, but we go back, even if we cleared that area days before, we're fighting EVERYTHING BECAUSE DAMNED IF WE SHOULD LEAVE EVEN ONE CROW BEHIND! So, after a week of satyr slaughter, we beat normal at forty-*******-four. JUST A WEE BIT OVERPOWERED. My boredom capacitor is nearing critical level as we kill enemies by just blinking at them. This is how tough she is--we go to fight the first shaman on epic and she accidentally hits her weapon switch and doesn't realize it until after she's punched him to death with her storm nimbusy fists--SHE HAS 112 STRENGTH!!!

Oh, you think I'm done? You haven't heard the best part yet. She finds this ring, this ******* blue ring that gives her +99% to her casting speed. At first she's like, "Oh, this ring sucks," and I'm like, "No, it's sweet--you can get your spells off faster--could save your *** if it gets tough." Oh, yeah, because that's the problem.

So, we're playing epic and I'm just loving how much poison sucks. I've got Shen's Dong and Monkey Tricks shoved into every possible orphice in the hopes of doing more poison damage. She starts feeling sorry for me. I mean, she doesn't say that, what she does say is, "Oh, that poison thing is cool--you almost killed that boar." And then, knowing better than to do nothing, she decides to start using some level one ice spell so she doesn't kill things so fast. And here's where that ring comes to **** me. Yeah, so, this spell apparently doesn't have a cool down timer or some ****? She starts chugging out ice like a snow cone machine and laying everything out. Oh, and the plan to play it cool and let me get some more kills under my belt? Yeah, that's out the ******* window. Now that she's an unstoppable ice cannon, she does what anyone else would do--she buys back every unused earth skill from yesteryear and dumps them into ice shard and its buffs. Oh, and any item that ups casting speed, yeah, she's wearing it. She went from being Zeus's sassy mom to being LORD OF THE ICE SHARD. We walk into a new area and she sees like one bug run toward her, she starts spewing out ice, triggering enemies like from the next screen BECAUSE THESE ICE SHARDS DON'T STOP AFTER THEY HIT SOMETHING, OOOOOH NOO, THEY HAVE MILES TO GO, and all of these monsters just rush toward her, bodies piling up on the ground in front of her, she just chugs mana potion after mana potion--"boy, i wish you still had that trance of whatever that made me regen fast," she says giggling--hero monsters not even able to get a swing in before they crumple under the glacial weight of this ENDLESS ******* BARRAGE!

I try to be all sly, "Hey, honey, remember that lightning bolt spell? Yeah, that thing was sweet. You used to use it all the time. I really miss that." She's like, "Oh, I still use it, but while I wait for it to recharge, I just use the ice thing." Yeah, while I run around and collect all the loot like the ******* pack mule.

Now, look, I've been loving this game--like Diable II but better, I always say to my friends--so, I'm not about all the cheating. I don't want custom made items, or uberpowerful whatever hacks. That doesn't mean I'm above modifying the game. I use the show damage mod, the potion stacking mod, and I use TQ vault. Now, if you want to argue that the game designers didn't want me to have these conveniences, fine, I don't care because running back to town every 8 seconds, or spending hours logging into and out of mule characters, isn't my idea of fun, and I want to have fun. But, I didn't use any other mod, or want to change the game at all. I wouldn't even use TQ Vault to change the completed charm bonus to another bonus that had the same %chance. Seriously. But, this ******* ice spell changed everything for me.

Now, I hate it when designers nerf stuff, so I decided instead of making her spell less powerful (because that just seemed unfair) I would make poison useful. And, oh man, did I agonize over this. I did all this ******* math, and went through a wide variety of skills. I'm asking myself these stupid-*** questions like, "Does it seem thematically appropriate to add an increase in poison damage to herbal remedy?" I take this really conservative approach to fixing poison. First, I talk myself down from a 50% increase in damage accross the board for all poison related skills to 10%. Then, I halve the bleeding damage bonus on anatomy to add a bonus to poison damage. Then I change the physical damage resistance reduction on susceptibility to poison damage resistance reduction, even though I don't have nature. Then, timidly, I add a -3%-per-level reduction to poison resistance to shrapnel.

This takes me an entire day. Seriously. An entire day. Then, after both of our computers have the new database file, she and I go to play again, and it doesn't make a difference. She's still killing everything. Her kill count is literally FOUR ******* TIMES HIGHER THAN MINE!!!

So, the next day, I'm like, "**** this," I totally blow out the poison damage. I double everything, add -% poison resistance to everything, you can't so much as turn on earth enchantment without giving -400% resist to every enemy within 150 meters. I figure, instead of screwing up her character build by dicking around with her abilities, I'd just make my character able to obliterate everything too. So, we go to play the next day, AND IT DOESN'T MAKE A ******* DIFFERENCE!! MY SUPER-POISONED ARROWS DON'T EVER GET TO HIT ANYTHING BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY DEAD!!

So, while I never used to be about nerfing a skill, I'm ALL for nerfing this ******* skill. It isn't about PVP, or fair access to loot, or any of that bull****. IT'S TOO ******* POWERFUL!! I did the math on it, with her immortal wisp giving her a whopping 150% bonus to her damage, and all the other **** going, with her fire rate being almost 4 times a second, she's doing over 10,000 damage a second at level 45. Now, not all those ice shards hit at a range, but the closer enemies get--no, **** that--no excuses--that's just too much ******* damage. And you know the most depressing part? The frost burn does more DOT on epic enemies than poison, even after buffing up poison the first time. And it's not going to get any better. Tonight she put a few points into squall because she figured out that reducing a high resist by 50% is better than upping your damage by 50%. Yeah, now everything's going to take even MORE cold damage.

THAT SKILL NEEDS A COOL-DOWN TIMER! It should not go below 500ms at the ABSOLUTE LOWEST. Don't get me wrong, poison still needs a minor buff (really, there needs to be a way for a brigand, or a warlock, or especially an assassin, to reduce enemy poison resist.) But the best change that would let me have more fun playing with my gf is if someone could nerf that ******* ice shard.

SO COMMUNITY PATCH YES!!!!!!!!!!

[Viper_Sweden]

Dude... Have you tried talking to her about it?

[i.n.s.a.n.e]

^^ Oh my f*cking God, lol...

I've almost died laughing on the ground man!

[Sova]

Munderbunny you have a way with words . To be honest I can relate to you easily cause i play a duo with my girl regularly and i can see myself in some of your sentences , that's why we play xmax always .

[yerkyerk]

Heh, great story Munderbunny

Anyway, instead of nerfing skills, the other option would be to enhance monsters. Some suggestions:
Keep Normal the same - it's a playground for the unexperienced, things can be tested etc. But for Epic and Legendary I suggest:
Increase life for monsters in epic by 2-4x and in legendary by even more.

Add immunities - those little ice creatures should be immune to any kind of ice damage, just as fire critters shouldn't be hurt by fire. Spiders perhaps poison immune and ghosts physical immune. Skeletons piercing immune (what's there to pierce really?). Also give monsters at least some decent resistance to "-%reduction to health".

Also give monsters more specific attributes to their monster class. That means greatly upping the innate armor and health on crocs for example (they're basically walking suits of armor after all). Also let casters have a lot less health than warriors and a lot more damage and/or support abilities, so there's some strategy involved in killing of the leaders first.

Give random monsters spell scrolls (about the same frequency as they get MI's), it will lead to spell scrolls to be used more often as well as give some random difficulty increment to the game. Also give monsters a bigger chance to wear yellows (with half-decent affixes) instead of whites/greys.
Also, give monster casters a wider variability of spells.

As for the poison and bleeding damage; upping the damage goes a bit against the idea of the whole thing. Than it'd become just another damage type. I'd rather greatly increase duration, it keeps the spirit of poison/bleeding alive and with stronger enemies with better resists, poison should be worth more. Ofcourse upping the damage a bit won't harm anyone.

[i.n.s.a.n.e]

Originally Posted by yerkyerk

Heh, great story Munderbunny

Anyway, instead of nerfing skills, the other option would be to enhance monsters. Some suggestions:
Keep Normal the same - it's a playground for the unexperienced, things can be tested etc. But for Epic and Legendary I suggest:
Increase life for monsters in epic by 2-4x and in legendary by even more.

Add immunities - those little ice creatures should be immune to any kind of ice damage, just as fire critters shouldn't be hurt by fire. Spiders perhaps poison immune and ghosts physical immune. Skeletons piercing immune (what's there to pierce really?). Also give monsters at least some decent resistance to "-%reduction to health".

Also give monsters more specific attributes to their monster class. That means greatly upping the innate armor and health on crocs for example (they're basically walking suits of armor after all). Also let casters have a lot less health than warriors and a lot more damage and/or support abilities, so there's some strategy involved in killing of the leaders first.

Give random monsters spell scrolls (about the same frequency as they get MI's), it will lead to spell scrolls to be used more often as well as give some random difficulty increment to the game. Also give monsters a bigger chance to wear yellows (with half-decent affixes) instead of whites/greys.
Also, give monster casters a wider variability of spells.

As for the poison and bleeding damage; upping the damage goes a bit against the idea of the whole thing. Than it'd become just another damage type. I'd rather greatly increase duration, it keeps the spirit of poison/bleeding alive and with stronger enemies with better resists, poison should be worth more. Ofcourse upping the damage a bit won't harm anyone.

+buff bosses greatly with hit points and dmg and it will be perfect!!

[Viper_Sweden]

Act 4 Normal should be nerfed somewhat. I mean, it's outright ridiculous how dangerous some of the mobs are there.

I agree with the immunities, except for the ghosts. They should be highly resistant to both physical and piercing but immune to physical damage would prove difficult for characters with clubs/axes.

Also give monsters a bigger chance to wear yellows (with half-decent affixes) instead of whites/greys.

Totally agree, but the difficulty should pay off. Meaning more whites/greys in Normal, less in Epic and hardly any in Legendary.

How does increasing duration enhance poison? The same damage over a longer period of time isn't exactly my interpretation of good...

[nemhauser]

i suppose a frustration that the female is the stronger one in this relationship might be an issue, but in the beginning she did die a lot like you said - be glad that the roles are now not fully reversed as you are alive.

maybe she is protecting you better than you tried to protect her earlier :-)


jokes aside - you should wipe the floor with your brigand so something might be off with your character - post titancal of your skills and screens of your char so we could debate

i'm not using my bow avenger while playing with melee friends because they would be bored

[RDespair]

Here's some suggestions on skill changes:

Spirit

Spirit Ward, Spirit Bane, Circle of Power - Modified so that they affect Magical & Demon in addition to Undead.
Life Drain, Cascade - Add Bleeding Damage

Nature

Briar Ward - Reduced Cooldown time
Stinging Nettle - Increase Poison Retaliation
Sylvan Nymph - Increase Pierce Damage

Rogue

Lucky Hit - Chance increased to 50%
Anatomy - Add -% Resistance to weapon (% based, not flat)
Open Wound - Chance increased to 100%
Disarm Traps - Add +% Move Speed
Nightshade, Toxin Distillation, Mandrake - Add some flat poison damage (like around 10/5sec at LV1, 50/5sec at max)
Poison Gas Bomb - Reduce Cooldown time to 6 seconds to coincide with Volcanic Orb, Increase Poison Damage

Hunting

Gouge - Chance increase to 100%, Bleeding Damage reduced (so as to not make it better than Open Wound)

Storm

Storm Nimbus - Damage increased slightly

Earth

Heat Shield, Molten Rock - Retaliaton damage increased
Soften Metal - Add Fire Damage equal to current Physical Damage
Volatility - Add 33% Chance of +% Physical Damage
Flame Surge - Increase Fire Damage & reduce Energy Cost
Conflagration - Increase Burn Damage

Defense

No change

Warfare

Crushing Blow - Increase chance to 50%
Counter Attack - Increase chance & damage

Dream

Dream Stealer - Remove physical damage bonus

As you can see, I aimed to improve skills rather than nerfing them. The only exception was Dream Stealer - as it stands now, it's way overpowered, dealing a ton of damage at a very low level, hitting multiple enemies, and having a host of useful side effects. Even with the flat damage boost removed, it'll still be plenty powerful so I don't feel bad about nerfing it.

Rogue was probably the biggest boosted since it generally seems to be considered the weakest mastery. I added a +% Move bonus to Disarm Traps & -% Resistance to Anatomy since the Rogue mastery felt weird not having those 2 very-Rogue like abilities. I also gave some boosts to Poison & Bleeding (honestly, why does Open Wounds only have a small chance to work when Envenom Weapon, a lower level skill, does more damage and works with every hit?).

[claudius]

Munderbunny,

Maybe try bow. You get a bow with increased projectile speed combined with skill increased projectile speed (both increase distance your arrow travels), combined with scattershot and now you can kill off screen. I've had the same experience you describe playing with bow hunters instead of storm. Flashpowder going off and everyone already dead, wtf? Running after a pack...and all the sudden they are already dead because the bow hunter is shooting grenades apparently mixed in with the arrow lol.