My main concerns with the game

[d24e]

- Items that drop are the ones you see on the monster. This is realistic but I actually like farming bosses for items (with or without bots). I get the feeling this game is focused more on the storyline and playing through it a few times with different classes, but it won't keep people playing for years like D2 did. There it was all about the itemfever and maxing out your character.

- Map editor. Another feature that looks great but can easily be exploited. If you can make simple maps and place lots of bosses close to eachother, then what stops you from playing that map over and over to get all the best items really fast? That would really kill the itemfever.

- Item stats. I know this is only the demo, but it looks like the rare items don't have much varying stats. About 2-3 stats on the item can change a little, while in Diablo 2 they would have big % varieties.

- No magic find % items. Maybe they come later in the game, which would be great. Making a good mf sorc for mephistoruns or pindleruns is great, I hope TQ will have a similar system.

- No teleport. I love teleport, especially since 1.10 Enigma runeword. Please put this in the game.

- Skill recast timers. Why do you put these long recast timers on good skills? It feels like EverQuest 2 or WoW where you cast your best skill and then you're forced to use some lesser ones while it recharges. It's so much more fun to use your best skills all the time and the only limit being faster cast rate or the animation time.

I know TQ is a different game than D2 and the devs have their own goals set out. But from what I've seen this game will be a better Dungeon Siege. Fun to play for a few weeks, maybe months. But I doubt it'll make me uninstall Diablo 2 for good. Needs more itemfever. Even if this is at the cost of a great story and superb graphics.

[Napoleon]

I think you misunderstood / misread some of the features of this game. And I don't think your concerns are any major thread for this game.

Originally Posted by d24e

- Items that drop are the ones you see on the monster. This is realistic but I actually like farming bosses for items

What?? Please explain! Bosses also have different items every time you restart the game. This is not really different from Diablo, just a nice feature.

Originally Posted by d24e

- Map editor. Another feature that looks great but can easily be exploited. If you can make simple maps and place lots of bosses close to eachother, then what stops you from playing that map over and over to get all the best items really fast? That would really kill the itemfever.

The map-editor is NOT going to be a dangerous feature. And I think they made something to prevent cheating with self-made maps (I am not quite sure though).
However, if you dont like cheating, then the easy hex-editor a much worse threat.

Originally Posted by d24e

- Item stats. I know this is only the demo, but it looks like the rare items don't have much varying stats. About 2-3 stats on the item can change a little, while in Diablo 2 they would have big % varieties.

Try killing bloodraven and seeing how many different stats you will see. I am actually pretty sure that Titan Quest have more different stats than D2.

Originally Posted by d24e

- No teleport. I love teleport, especially since 1.10 Enigma runeword. Please put this in the game.

You are pretty much comparing every detail with D2. I don't miss Teleport. It causes many lame bugs / shortcuts.

And btw

Originally Posted by d24e

(with or without bots

You misunderstood the spirit of Diablo. And you ruined Battle.net for a lot of people. Item-bots are lame. You are a carrot.

[d24e]

Originally Posted by Napoleon

I think you misunderstood / misread some of the features of this game. And I don't think your concerns are any major thread for this game.


What?? Please explain! Bosses also have different items every time you restart the game. This is not really different from Diablo, just a nice feature.

Yeah per class. In the demo fighters/hunters have to kill the centaur boss for green/blue items while the pyromancer can kill the mage boss near Helios for his upgrades. Either that or do chestruns and go through the whole maps again and again. Since bosses drop more rare items, I prefer to farm those for gear.
I get the feeling that in the full game people will have to kill different mobs for their own class' items. So fighters will be going after fighter bosses while mages kill mage bosses. I prefer killing all bosses and having a chance at any item in the game (up until that boss' itemlevel ofcourse).

Originally Posted by Napoleon

The map-editor is NOT going to be a dangerous feature. And I think they made something to prevent cheating with self-made maps (I am not quite sure though).
However, if you dont like cheating, then the easy hex-editor a much worse threat.

Cool, I hope you're right and this will be prevented. I remember in Dungeon Siege MP they just allowed changing item stats or xp rate and whatnot. That sucked. (yes I see the irony of someone who uses bots and maphack saying cheats ruin a game, but you know...)

Originally Posted by Napoleon

Try killing bloodraven and seeing how many different stats you will see. I am actually pretty sure that Titan Quest have more different stats than D2.

Not sure what you're talking about here, Bloodraven is a boss. I'm talking about item stats. eg: Wolfhowl (probably has the most varying stats of all items.

+120-150% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+3 To Warcries (Barbarian Only)
+3-6 To Feral Rage (varies)
+3-6 To Lycanthropy (varies)
+3-6 To Werewolf (varies)
+8-15 To Strength (varies)
+8-15 To Dexterity (varies)
+8-15 To Vitality (varies)
Level 15 Summon Dire Wolf (18 Charges)

Originally Posted by Napoleon

You are pretty much comparing every detail with D2. I don't miss Teleport. It causes many lame bugs / shortcuts.

It speeds up the gameplay a lot, I love it. Same way I love faster run stat on items. I'm glad to see that in TQ.

Originally Posted by Napoleon

And btw

You misunderstood the spirit of Diablo. And you ruined Battle.net for a lot of people. Item-bots are lame. You are a carrot.

That's what everyone says who never ran bots with mf sorces. Bots and maphack improve D2 gameplay, believe it or not.

[Phyrex]

Holy Christ, are people still playing Diablo II nowadays? Even Ms. Pacman has better graphics.
I know D2 people are a special kind of breed. They are willing to spend hours and hours of grinding for items just to brag about it to other people they don’t even know. I used to be one 5 years ago or so.

But here’s a newsflash: TQ is not a Diablo II upgrade. It will be played on ‘open battle.net’ only which means you will be able to cheat to max lvl at the speed of light and get a full legendary set before you can so “doh”. This game is about questing together with serious people you like playing with. Grab a beer and get on teamspeak together for maximum fun (the beer is optional).

From the looks of it at the moment, TQ is NOT about farming items to brag about unless they somehow implement a way to make legit items detectable which I very much doubt.
This whole concept of, as you adequately put, “itemfever” is the sole force that still drives D2 today but is impossible to obtain while cheating is possible.
NWN is a great game, but advancing faster than normally (aka cheating) is also possible, yet people still play it because you need to switch your attitude from plain itemfever to enjoying (role)playing with friends.

Good luck with that.

[Napoleon]

Originally Posted by d24e

Not sure what you're talking about here, Bloodraven is a boss. I'm talking about item stats. eg: Wolfhowl (probably has the most varying stats of all items.

+120-150% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+3 To Warcries (Barbarian Only)
+3-6 To Feral Rage (varies)
+3-6 To Lycanthropy (varies)
+3-6 To Werewolf (varies)
+8-15 To Strength (varies)
+8-15 To Dexterity (varies)
+8-15 To Vitality (varies)
Level 15 Summon Dire Wolf (18 Charges)

I am also talking about items. I ment... you are not able to find l33t items like Wolfhowl in the demo. Keep in mind.. This is only 1/100 of the game. The item system is going to be bigger than Diablo2 (from what i have heard).

Originally Posted by d24e

It speeds up the gameplay a lot, I love it. Same way I love faster run stat on items. I'm glad to see that in TQ.

Ya, also notice that the base-speed of the characters is pretty fast (faster than diablo2). I think the speed of the gameplay is high already.

Originally Posted by d24e

That's what everyone says who never ran bots with mf sorces. Bots and maphack improve D2 gameplay, believe it or not.

The real fun is to FIND items. Not to have items. Ebay is a mistake, and so are bots.
Beside: The bots made battle.net lag.
no, I havn't tried bots, but i have tried cheating in other games. It ruins the game. Couldn't see how bots should be different.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Phyrex

I know D2 people are a special kind of breed. They are willing to spend hours and hours of grinding for items just to brag about it to other people they don’t even know

Please do not generalize the 2 millions Battle.net-fans. I played Diablo2 for 3 years, and I did it, because I liked it. Just because you used to be a show-off, dosn't mean that all players were like that.

[Phyrex]

Originally Posted by Napoleon

Please do not generalize the 2 millions Battle.net-fans. I played Diablo2 for 3 years, and I did it, because I liked it.

Hey I'm not saying there are no exceptions, but that doesn't mean I can't generalize when 99% of the Diablo population fits the description.
And while I'm at it, I think the average age of Diablo II players is fetus.

[d24e]

Originally Posted by Napoleon

I am also talking about items. I ment... you are not able to find l33t items like Wolfhowl in the demo. Keep in mind.. This is only 1/100 of the game. The item system is going to be bigger than Diablo2 (from what i have heard).

Oh ok, I hope you're right. I never played the Diablo 2 demo (I think it released after the game was out) so not sure how they contained the item system into a smaller file. Maybe in endgame the items will have much more varying stats.

Originally Posted by Napoleon

Ya, also notice that the base-speed of the characters is pretty fast (faster than diablo2). I think the speed of the gameplay is high already.

It sure is, my pyromancer with pet and awesome gear can rush through everything. It's great.

Originally Posted by Napoleon

The real fun is to FIND items. Not to have items. Ebay is a mistake, and so are bots.
Beside: The bots made battle.net lag.
no, I havn't tried bots, but i have tried cheating in other games. It ruins the game. Couldn't see how bots should be different.

Waking up to a stash filled with set/unique items and nice charms, jewels, runes etc is like christmas day every day.
True, bots did create the enormous create game delays but that was fixed in 1.10. I see a big difference in using bots to play the repetitive part of the game for you and typing in god or changing your stats in files. Not sure how to explain it, but using bots doesn't make you uber in a day. If I were to edit a file and make my paladin lvl 99 with all the best items, I'd become bored with him after a few days I'm sure. That didn't happen by using bots.

[~V~]

Just to add to the boss item drop concern mentioned in this thread - while its true that bosses will drop what they are carrying and those items do get randomized - the best loot that drops from bosses may be in their locked chests, and those items are not tied in any way to whether or not that boss is a caster or melee character, etc.

[koll]

Originally Posted by ~V~

Just to add to the boss item drop concern mentioned in this thread - while its true that bosses will drop what they are carrying and those items do get randomized - the best loot that drops from bosses may be in their locked chests, and those items are not tied in any way to whether or not that boss is a caster or melee character, etc.

Well there you go,so in other words a mele boss can drop ranged,caster items...nice info v.

[Nerulan]

TQ is not an item-grinding game like D2. While it may have quite a lot of affixes, it does not have anything like a closed B-net that makes it interesting to grind Levels and Items.
It will (hopefully) get its replayability value by the editor and player-generated Maps/Stories, not by the "item fever", which destroyed gameplay in closed B-net, although it certainly increased the longetivity of D2.

I would not mind anything that you feared. While i liked teleport, it was mostly abused for quickly getting to your goal withouth killing anything in the end. Items are nice to have, but nothing that should be more important than game play. So i will miss neither %Item nor anything else that encourages something like Pindel runs.

While the Skill timers might need some adjusting for some skills, they are very important imho. Mana is useless for balancing out strong skills against weaker skills. And the ability to spam your best skill over and over without ever having to use different skills made D2 very monotonous and too easy. Especially AOE was too easily available. Personally, i would not mind if timer-dependant skills were used more often instead of simple buffs in TQ