Nothing Special, same old ....

[Tug]

Hi, I have tried this demo, and read over many of the questions and complaints people have on this game.

I personally feel the game has been rushed to get it released in the aspect of camera rotation as well as the lack of character modifications and selections upon picking a character.

Is it true that there are only two skins? Male and female, wait tho, you can change the colour of the tunic he wears, nice feature indeed. Maybe they have done this for a reason and will add more in an expansion? Who knows why it is so. I wont be rushing out to buy a game that has limited basic features that make playing a game more enjoyable, it just doesnt do it for me to have either a fat or skinny gladiator style character with same looks with like 4 others in multiplayer (If that is the size of the multiplayer option games) running around with just different outfits, one with a sword other with a staff.

I see it as rushing, then i could be wrong, but hey thats my opinion, like many other opinions around here.

NWN 2 all the way.

[Arangar]

This is an hack and slash game, not a diehard rpg or an mmo. Those games offer alot of customizations, but with hack and slash games its all about the action, the skills, the loot and the multiplayer. Now i do agree that a different look per class would have been way better, because now almost everyone will look the same. And the first class that you would chose would be your look, the second having no influence (cause i dont think they are gonna make 36 different looking classes).

I understand why you say that it has been rushed, with the demo i too felt like some important things were missing. Some will be in the final, some wont. But it also has some very nice features, and i think this game is gonna rock.
If you dont like it, your loss. I myself dont have the patience for long dialogue games like nwn2 (allthough i loved them a few years ago).

[Tug]

Originally Posted by Arangar

This is an hack and slash game, not a diehard rpg or an mmo. Those games offer alot of customizations, but with hack and slash games its all about the action, the skills, the loot and the multiplayer. Now i do agree that a different look per class would have been way better, because now almost everyone will look the same. And the first class that you would chose would be your look, the second having no influence (cause i dont think they are gonna make 36 different looking classes).

I understand why you say that it has been rushed, with the demo i too felt like some important things were missing. Some will be in the final, some wont. But it also has some very nice features, and i think this game is gonna rock.
If you dont like it, your loss. I myself dont have the patience for long dialogue games like nwn2 (allthough i loved them a few years ago).

They could of added features like "Automated Character Creation" for those that like to play the game without wasting 10 minutes customising there character, as well as those that cant think of a character name, automate the character name as well. Its all about accomadating for both types of players by adding some simple options.

The game has nice graphics yes, but this doesnt make a game good at all. Unfortunatley IGN and big gaming review sites generally rate on how awesome the graphics look in a pree release then spam that this game is going to be the "One" ... This isnt going to be the One if these simple options are left out of the game, they need to give both types of players options.

I like NWN, WOW, and games like that yes, But I also liked D2 Styles as well, and played d2 for many years, 6 years have passed, and d2 seems to have more options than this game.

[Arangar]

If you played diablo that long, then you know that it was the almost perfect balance between classes, the amount and type of skills that made many builds possible, the constant item hunt, the multiplayer with pvp, and the item trading that made the game replayable for years and years, not some stupid name generator, or the ability to rotate the camera.

I think you aint giving this game a fair chance. Not only is the demo not an optimized build (some devs have allready said on these forums that some features will be in the final but were not in the demo), but it also offers only a very, VERY small part of the gameplay which the final version will offer.

[Gorkk]

Originally Posted by Tug

NWN 2 all the way.

Err, NwN2 and Titan Quest can't be compared. Sure, NwN2 needs character customization, it's a RPG. Titan Quest is an Action RPG (or more precisely a Hack & Slash, but people like to put RPG for every game where your character evolves...).

What makes Titan Quest a great game is not it's ability to let you customize your character. That's something you await from a true RPG like NwN. What makes it a great game and will make it succesfull is the fast paced rythm of the game. You don't play a H&S to roleplay (always have been horrified by people trying to roleplay in Sacred...), but to Hack and Slash hordes of monsters.

If you look for a H&S in NwN2, you'll be disappointed. Same way, you'll be disappointed by Titan Quest if you look for a true RPG. For me, Action RPGs are not RPGs (well, what I call RPGs). The main word is Action, and that's what they are for. And most H&S games who tried to go a little more toward the RPG end up being not that good: you finished them once, and then never came back, because they were not fast paced enough, and the gameplay was not a good H&S gameplay.

Then, sure, it could be cool to customize the look of your character. But wait, you will be able to: with the great variety of equipments that show on your character!

Same for lack of camera rotation: any H&S with camera rotation has quickly fade away, because camera rotation doesn't fit with H&S gameplay. All successful H&S had isometric view (and Sacred 2 will as well).

It's not being rushed. Devs made the choice to put next to no character customization. The goal is to have the player immerged in the game few seconds after launching it, and not having him play with the character customization for hours. As for the camera rotation, it lets devs give better gameplay, more fast paced action, and optimize the game more for better performances, it's a deliberate choice that I support allheartedly.

PS: good post Arangar

[Napoleon]

Originally Posted by Arangar

If you played diablo that long, then you know that it was the almost perfect balance between classes, the amount and type of skills that made many builds possible, the constant item hunt, the multiplayer with pvp, and the item trading that made the game replayable for years and years, not some stupid name generator, or the ability to rotate the camera.

/signed

I do not consider the missing "Camera-rotation / Char-modifications" as a rush.

Iron Lore could make options, where you could turn those features on/off, but they didnt because of a tight budget.
They simply gave priority to gameplay instead of Camera/Char-options.

Edit:
Btw I disagree with your headline: Nothing Special, same old ....
Actually I think old games are special. I havn't seen any games without camera-rotation since DiabloII. Gorkk already made a (IMO) good post about how old games used to focuse at gameplay and fun, instead of fancy graphics.
I just brougth the new Hereos 5, but I don't really like it, because of the Camera-rotation. It's too fancy, and then it lags at my computer. Heroes 3 is better- Good gameplay / well constructed.
They will never beat Heroes3, since they only focuse at graphics.

[Blackjack]

They've been working on the game for 5 years or more. I hardly call that "rushed."

I think what maybe they've found is a lot of in-house decisions they made aren't necessarily jibing with the feedback from forum feedback or demo feedback. It seems like the decisions causing the most controversy had reasonable justifications, but it's different once yer game gets in front of a lot of people, and everybody wants something different.

Most games change dramatically upon release (D2 was constantly being patched for balancing and tweaking and so forth), and I don't expect TQ to be any different. No matter how good a company's QA team is, once you get a game in front of thousand or millions of people, they start doing things with the game or having different opinions about what features they want -- there's just no way to simulate that beforehand, not even a big public beta test's feedback always jibes with what a game's first zillion buyers want, demand or need.

And fwiw I bought NWN and it never did anything for me though I certainly don't badmouth it. I'm more hack 'n slash and it didn't deliver that sort of feel for me. TQ seems to.

[Ion Silverbolt]

Once characters start to get a lot of armor on, they usually end up mostly covered up. That's what the developers are going for. With so many different types of armor and looks, everyone should have a different enough look.

Besides, most of the action will take place zoomed out where you won't see much character detail anyway. This is not a game you sit in town and chat about wardrobe.

[Digit]

Originally Posted by Tug

Hi, I have tried this demo, and read over many of the questions and complaints people have on this game.

I personally feel the game has been rushed to get it released in the aspect of camera rotation as well as the lack of character modifications and selections upon picking a character.

Is it true that there are only two skins? Male and female, wait tho, you can change the colour of the tunic he wears, nice feature indeed. Maybe they have done this for a reason and will add more in an expansion? Who knows why it is so. I wont be rushing out to buy a game that has limited basic features that make playing a game more enjoyable, it just doesnt do it for me to have either a fat or skinny gladiator style character with same looks with like 4 others in multiplayer (If that is the size of the multiplayer option games) running around with just different outfits, one with a sword other with a staff.

I see it as rushing, then i could be wrong, but hey thats my opinion, like many other opinions around here.

NWN 2 all the way.

It isn't about rushing a game, it's about priorities. A game isn't fun because you can make your character look completely different to someone else, cosmetically. It can add a few minutes of 'oh cool!' factor into the game, but it wears off rapidly. Guild Wars is another game where you can pick between male and female, and then colour. You really don't feel like you are missing anything.

If you are really discounting the game because you can't 'Barbie-doll' your character, then this wasn't the game for you from the start. Instead everyone else is interested in skills, monsters, items and so forth. Also, if you look at the trailers, your character look does differ quite a bit depending on the armour and items you wield. That, for me at least, is cool enough as everyone starts off looking similar, and then branches out to their desired professions.

Hell, in Diablo I and II you can't even choose gender or colour, look how important that was to the fun factor of the game and it's success. >_>

In regards to the rotational camera, true it is used, but most people play with a fixed view, even if the camera can rotate. You often up end using it to orient yourself to the attack/movement direction, then stick it back to the default "up/north" position, as players find it easy to navigate this way. Again, for me personally it's neithere here nor there if it's included or not. I would probably use it if it was, but only for about 2 seconds, to look at what I wanted too and then I would reorient it, just like in NWN, Spellforce and Guild Wars. It just isn't critical in this kind of game, and will not impact the fun factor at all. Hopefully, this will be included in a patch sometime, but the Barbie-doll stuff, I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

Digit.
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