Attribute requirements for items

[Beavor369]

Hey,

Anybody besides me hate the way that attribute requirements for loot result in you finding some whip a$$ item that you can't use? Example: You find a Whip A$$ Sword. However, if you remove the sword that you're currently using, you lose a strength bonus from that sword that now means you can't use the Whip *** one.

Or worse yet, you end up with an arrangement of gear that if you remove one piece, you can't use the whole set anymore because of attribute bonus losses.

And yes, I know that D2 was this way, and I hated it. Why not have just level/class requirements or only count your base attribute when determining if you can use an item and not count the bonuses (boni?) from other items?

I had plenty of D2 characters that had a stash full of awesome gear that I couldn't use because to use it, I would have had to replace all my other gear as well.

[frankenparrot]

Was there, am there, will always be there with related issues like that. Still, makes it all the worth while to continue to play. And in that rare instance where you find the item that you will use for the rest of the game...then that fixes that. I am douting that happens to me though, so continue plugging away!

[Bardo]

it's a love/hate relationsship... I hate it when there's a super cool item I can't use if I change that one piece, but that's also the fun of it. The everlasting gear-puzzle I'm all in favor for no class requirements, sice you have all the freedom you want to equip anything you like... So even though you're a spellcaster you can wear bigass amor if you're willing to sacrifice points or +stats gear elsewhere. Better options for different playstyles...

[siege]

Gear puzzles are part of the fun in the game. I have no problem with it.

[Gorkk]

The only issue I have with the way attributes bonus on items are used, is that when you have an item with attribute bonus equiped, it counts toward the requirement, but (let's say you had put a strength ring to equip that sword and removed it later) if you unequip it, then it no longer counts toward the requirement when you try to equip it.

That's something I don't find coherent, and should, imho, either be "attribute bonus on an item never counts toward the requirement of that item - but counts toward requirements of others of course" or "attribute bonus on an item always counts toward the requirement of that item - even when in inventory and you trying to equip it".

[Alkaidia]

I agree with Gorkk. When you have a sword with plus 6 to strength, it should require six less strength to equip then it normally would. Playing with my hunter I got the Boar Hunter's Sheild. With it equipped I had enough strength to wear it but without it equipped I didn't. I could get myself wearing it by putting a whole bunch of + to strength items on then removing them after I had it on but whenever I switched weapons between my bow and my spear I wasn't wearing it anymore. Because of this I have now sold the Boar Hunter's Shield and I'm using and Outrider's Buckler which isn't as good a shield. But the problem with equipping the Boar Hunter's one makes it useless. Even though I should be able to wear it, (in my opinion).

Thanks
Alkaidia

[Beavor369]

Didn't WoW fix this (Blizzard learning from it's own past) by having just a level and class req? I don't like finding "the gear that I'm going to use for the rest of the game". Part of the fun for me is, as my wife points out, "dressing up my dollies". If I don't get to swap in new gear from time-to-time, things get dull.

[Gorkk]

Originally Posted by Beavor369

Didn't WoW fix this (Blizzard learning from it's own past) by having just a level and class req? I don't like finding "the gear that I'm going to use for the rest of the game". Part of the fun for me is, as my wife points out, "dressing up my dollies". If I don't get to swap in new gear from time-to-time, things get dull.

Class requirement is not a fix, it's even what Iron Lore wanted to avoid here. As well as avoid the disappointment of finding a cool sword, and seeing you won't ever be able to use it because it's restricted to another class. With attributes requirements, you always have a possibility to go for it, with putting points in the attributes, and using +attributes items (well, as long as you're not 65 with legendary +attributes items for this attribute of course ).

Besides, not all Warfare guys at level X will have Y in strength, or Z in dexterity. To use powerful and fast swords, you need to put decent amount of dexterity and strength, not just be level L and with the mastery Warfare for example. The way it is makes it much more sense that silly level and class limitations...

It only needs a little bit of tweaking to either not count the attribute bonus of the item being considered, or always count it (not only when it's already equiped but when in inventory as well).


Alkaida >> your issues with swapping gear are strange, I would have sworn that if your weapon set (or weapon + shield set) allow you to wear the items, and your alternate sets don't allow you to wear the items of the first set, swapping to the second and back to the first they were still enabled. Either I had a wrong impression, or they changed it for the demo (and in that case I hope they'll put it back).

[Beavor369]

Class requirements don't suit TQ very well, I'll admit. But I don't see any good reason not to tie attribute requirements just to base attribute and not modified attribute. Use the modified att for damage calculation or whatnot.

Also, as you mention "what makes sense", let's not forget that the game is to be played for fun. It is obviously not intended to be a greek hero sim. Fighting satyrs doesn't make a lot of sense either.

[Aron]

Although this requirement juggling bothers me too sometimes, it is still a good sign that some items are probably too powerful for that appropriate character level and type.
Level and class restrictions on items are probably the best solution for balancing but as far as TQ doesn’t limit the character development with classes, attribute requirements are useful as a class restriction replacement. This way, you can’t just swap your equipment from a warrior gear (ST+DX) to a mage gear (IN+DX) whenever you like it. It’s a little restriction that still reflects the two different paths every character in the game has to choose from: the martial and the spiritual way.
Further in TQ, you also need to decide if your character prefers quick weapons that need more DX to handle or slow but hard hitting tools that need more ST.
With these limits, you just give every character its own style.