Analysis

[Analysis]

Brian S. Here is my Feedback

My Background PC Gaming:
Time Spent playing the TQ Demo: 8 hours
Time Spent Playing Diablo/DiabloII/LOD:800+ hours
Time Spent Playing WOW: 300+ hours
Time Spent Playing GW: 200+ hours
NWN, Bldrs Gate, Sacred, IWD, blah, blah, you get the idea

System: AMD64 3200+, X800XL 256 AGP, 1GBRam, Sound: Audigy 4, XP SP2
Played game at 1280x1024, All Max except Shadows on normal,

Professional background:
B.S: Philosophy
Assoc: Network Engineering
Present Profession: Structural Steel Materials Coordinator
Age 26 - Married

Note to the Developers:
As a long time PC Gamer I would like to extend my kudos for producing an RPG and stacking it against the most acclaimed Action RPG giants in the industry. Prepare for the Worst Flaming, Prepare to be cooked...as those who play RPGs seem to be very picky, critical, and passionate about their games.
Just Remember that you can't please everyone.

My First Impressions:

1) Action: Feels like Diablo (a good thing)

2) Graphics: Refreshing, I like the genre, (I can't stand toony graphics) The artwork and the obvious attention to detail is astounding. Your load screen or lack of it screams low budget. In addition, your initial menu screen etc are down right boring. You need something that says “Cool, I want to play this game”

3) Environment: Nice setting so far. Just remember that the Diablo crowd is going to be looking for Hellish challenges (Demons, Spirit forms etc). Legendary mythical creatures are cool but a Demonic/Evil Hord waiting to torture your soul at the bottom of a creepy dungeon crawl is what lots of people will be looking for throughout the game. I don’t like pretty end bosses. Be SURE to make Some Environments come across as EVIL, EVIL, EVIL, NOT PRETTY! Crack a D&D monster manual and inspire yourself with the SICK and TWISTED MOBS that we gamers like to KILL! BE SURE TO SCARE and INTIMIDATE US.

4) Skills: Hmm balancing? Maybe I am speaking to early as one can pick 2 masteries in the game later, right? At cap level 6 in a demo who can tell. Consider yourself WARNED. Action RPG gamers HATE unbalanced class systems. Take a hint from the early versions of WOW, Sacred etc. Take a hint from their forums.

However, the number of Classes appears impressive along with the number of skills.

I am eager to see the skills/roles play out in group play for the final difficulty level. PLS o Pls use a good online group/game finding service.

Also the % Chance Activation skills/buffs can get frustrating for an Action RPG because TIMING is of the essence NOT CHANCE.

5) Role Playing:

A) Hack and Slash with NO BLOOD? Shame on you Brian S !
That’s like a First Person Shooter with No Explosions!!!!
Most of the Diablo crowd should be over 18. Is this Titan Quest Day Care???
When I kill a Nasty Mob or Boss I DON"T want to see him “BOUNCE” off my sword/spear/arrow. I want to see limbs fly, blood spray, and guts ooze.
What the heck…make all the items NERF BATS +11 to damage +3 to strength etc. That would fit in with your “effects”.

B) Character Customization: I understand your philosophy about accessibility and action. It should be an OPTION to go with the default character look. At this stage of PC game development in the RPG genre, most people don’t like looking like others. Accessibility, Low-budget, Laziness, Unimportant, who’s to know. If this is going to retract from more important issues let it slide.

C) On Spears: So you want this to be about Titans set in Sparta and Greece. Do more research. Spears are typically NOT held in the throwing position when going into hand to hand combat. The advantage of the spear in hand to hand is to “impale” your enemy at a distance while thrusting your arm forward so they can’t get at you. Try that with your current animation (its like a backstab motion but with spear LOL) The larger version of the spear is the Lance and uses this combative philosophy to the extreme. Animate the character with the spear gripped with the hand palm face down toward the base end and NOT raised above the head. Try fighting/running around in your office with a skinny 8 foot long object, like your character animation. You’ll get my point. Watch the fight scene from TROY with Hector vs Achilles and take a BIG HINT.



6) Crafting and Looting: The ultimate end game to all action RPG's. So far the items look interesting and appropriate. Be sure to feed the loot slot machine with lots of items. Crafting/item modding is also VERY important. I am eager to see how this plays out. If its not there...to the Bargain Bin your game will go.

7) Technical: Bugs: Blue and White Checker Board affect in background, Water: Blue and green hexing occasionally. Lag/Stuttering when entering towns, entering/exiting dungeons, encountering lots of mobs. One Crash to the desktop. One time a Mob Froze in mid air after I killed him.

[SteelPoet]

I agree with most of it.

Though I don't care either way with the blood and gore. It's fine if it's in, but i'm not missing it if it's not.

I don't agree with the "evil enviroment" suggestion. This isn't Diablo 3. Nor do I think they should copy it in that way. I'm glad the Devs took a different route and went mystical instead of thinking "Ok! Diablo has lots of sick looking demons and hellish spawns! We need that!"

Everything else looks spot on.

[Switchblade]

Good post, most of it I agree with, however, blood and gore I haven't missed to any extreme point, and the spears thing, come on, I dont care how I stab a centaur, as long as he gets stabbed, and it looks good, both of which I see currently.

Skill balancing we cannot comment on yet.

Overall, well put.

[Analysis]

Thanks for your comments gents.

On blood and gore: I think Iron lore should at least make it a graphics option under effects. Destructible objects/environments are so old school but still are not implemented well here. (maybe I am just blood thirsty..grins....)

On Spears: Maybe this is just touchy to me cause I practive marshall arts. If your going to be "authentic" to the greek/sparten setting, lets at least make the characters of mythology look well versed in their weapon use.

Lets say you play baseball. You then see a pc game were the character grips the bat between their knees and swings at that pitch by pivoting their hips. get the idea....lol

[Switchblade]

Originally Posted by Analysis

Thanks for your comments gents.

On blood and gore: I think Iron lore should at least make it a graphics option under effects. Destructible objects/environments are so old school but still are not implemented well here. (maybe I am just blood thirsty..grins....)

I agree, that would be great, but the developers seem pretty bent on leaving it out, I would certainly not complain if it were in, but the fact that it isn't is not crippling the game.

Originally Posted by Analysis

On Spears: Maybe this is just touchy to me cause I practive marshall arts. If your going to be "authentic" to the greek/sparten setting, lets at least make the characters of mythology look well versed in their weapon use.

Lets say you play baseball. You then see a pc game were the character grips the bat between their knees and swings at that pitch by pivoting their hips. get the idea....lol

Yeah, I see where you are coming from now, it might detract from the game for you, but it does not make it a bad game, I don't even notice it. Would have been cool if they did the research though hey.

Peace

PS:

Originally Posted by Analysis

pivoting their hips

ROFL!!

[Gorkk]

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Yeah, I see where you are coming from now, it might detract from the game for you, but it does not make it a bad game, I don't even notice it. Would have been cool if they did the research though hey.

Well I must admit I have been buggered by the spears as well. When I saw my character equip them the first time, I thought: yap, a throwing weapon (by the way, at the vendors it's with the bow in the throwing tab ). I look at the first skill (Take Down), and in the French translation it read like you would be throwing the spear. Thought "cool, it'll remember me of my throwing barb in D2". Used it, and had my char rush to the enemy (that skill is great though), that spear was a melee weapon. Heck, no way anyone would evey use a spear in that way in melee! They'll always use them more like act2 mercenaries in D2 (roughly horizontally next to your hip, and more down to up, and not over the shoulder and up to down...).

I would really wish they change the spear animation to be like it should be: it'd make much more sense, but above all would look much better. Anyway, that's a small point though, but that would still be cool

For balancing, we'll see. For now, I think the fire enchantment from the Earth mastery is overpowered, even after testing the masteries with everything maxed, but I'll trust Iron Lore for the testing, they're still doing it at the moment (see latest dev blog from a QA guy).

[medierra]

Originally Posted by Analysis

C) On Spears: So you want this to be about Titans set in Sparta and Greece. Do more research. Spears are typically NOT held in the throwing position when going into hand to hand combat. The advantage of the spear in hand to hand is to “impale” your enemy at a distance while thrusting your arm forward so they can’t get at you. Try that with your current animation (its like a backstab motion but with spear LOL) The larger version of the spear is the Lance and uses this combative philosophy to the extreme. Animate the character with the spear gripped with the hand palm face down toward the base end and NOT raised above the head. Try fighting/running around in your office with a skinny 8 foot long object, like your character animation. You’ll get my point. Watch the fight scene from TROY with Hector vs Achilles and take a BIG HINT.

Thank you for your observations. Some issues like character customization have been popular complaints and while we can't change much at this point in development, we'll use this feedback to improve our next game.

As an ancient history major I had to chime in on the spear topic.

In the time of Homer hoplites did not exist and spears were not used in formation but were mainly employed in hand to hand combat; especially as a throwing weapon. Spears in the time of Homer were also shorter. When spears began to be used in formation they became longer and it is most widely believed that they were held overarm as this is the way they are portrayed in Greek artwork, although there is some controversy. Those who argue against overarm use believe overarm grip is depicted in art because it is more dramatic looking. I tend to support overarm use because, while underarm grip might be most effective in single combat, it seems that an overarm grip would be more practical in formation fighting, allowing the warrior to more easily manuever the spear without kocking it into his closely packed comrads. With an underarm grip, if you were in the second row, how would be able to maneuver your spear if it is between your allies bodies? Additionally, with all spears carried at waist height the people in the front of the formation would be impaled by their allies in the rear if they got pushed back or tried to retreat.

http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~warfare/L..._vase_c650.JPG


In TQ you're not fighting in formation and our spears are not nearly as long as a real hoplite spear because it would look silly in hand to hand combat. So, we could have gone either way but with an overarm grip our animator could put more motion in the attacks to make them seem faster and more interesting. While I believe that an overarm spear grip is perfectly plausible, I know there are many other aspects of the game that are not historically accurate. However, our goal was to make the most fun game possible and that should take precidence over accuracy and realism. There are some cases where I think we should have sacraficed accuracy even more for the sake of fun.

[Lestai]

^^History major Learn something new everyday and nice post medierra.

Side note - dont make it accuracy like in warcraft plz dont do it like that, my warrior could not hit the side of a barn.

Big hugs,
Lestai

[CannedRage]

"Maybe this is just touchy to me cause I practive marshall arts"

I’m curious to know what type of martial arts you study.
Often in Asian martial arts the “Spear” is thought to be the king of all weapons and is indeed wielded from the hip. This is done for reasons of stability and to add strength to the broad range of movements which are executed in spear based styles. In such disciplines the spear is used almost exclusively as an independent weapon and is not though of as an appropriate unit based device. This is because as I said above proper execution of spear technique in most Asian martial arts requires a very broad range of motion. Use of this type of spear requires two hands at all times which excludes the use of a shield entirely and lends an anatomical reason to it’s waste high underarm grip. The moves being executed in such styles are entirely circular based. All attacks begin and are followed by circular motions of the spear whether broad or narrow in nature. In order to execute such attacks an incredible amount of lateral strength is required. At waste height if a long spear were wielded single handedly these movements would originate at the wrist limiting the strength that can be dedicated to each attack, which is why a two handed method is employed in Asian martial arts. This allows the combatant to use the various core muscles of the body and the muscles of the forearm to push and pull against the spears resistance producing a much more powerful attack and increasing the possible angles of execution. Conversely if the spear is wielded single handedly above the head in a downward fashion the users other hand can be freed allowing for the use of a shield. This method is not found in Asian martial arts which is where I think you may be confused. However, it is a commonly employed technique in many other parts of the world throughout history. This posture allows the user to utilize the stronger muscles of the upper arm and back, the Triceps, Trapezius, and Latissimus Dorsi to be more specific, to create a devastating downward thrust, which can be made over the head of a comrade or over the brim of a shield held in the off hand.

Before I end up going on for hours on this topic I think my point is that you were not very clear on where you were coming from with your “Martial Arts” statement. And I think you were making a big deal out of a very minor feature .

I think it is important to remember that it’s only a video game and also that maybe those guys know a little more about the subject than we do and probably have reasons for doing what they did.

[medierra]

Originally Posted by Lestai

^^History major Learn something new everyday and nice post medierra.

Side note - dont make it accuracy like in warcraft plz dont do it like that, my warrior could not hit the side of a barn.

Big hugs,
Lestai

Haha, not to worry, I find wiffing infuriating. In TQ you will rarely miss your enemy in melee combat if you are semi-evenly matched with your opponent and have decent dexterity. I never understood why most RPGs used to-hit as a primary factor for determining the outcome of an encounter. If you're an epic hero fighting a 15' wide slow-moving rock monster you may be hard pressed to damage it but you should have no problem hitting the thing. So in TQ the primary determining factor in an encounter is how effective you can damage your enemy, not hit them. That and of course, how effectively can you take damage.