My reaction to the demo

[-Aerows-]

This is my opinion of the demo.

First off, I'm not even concerned about the gore debate anymore. I've played the demo and I decided that gore and blood are not missing in the game.

There are too many other things that ARE there that take precedence as issues/annoyances/vacancies.

One massive annoyance for me is the "Fate-like" voiceover saying "You cannot carry anymore".

The character seemingly does not say anything, and really has no personality.

I say this because of a few things. 1. With no static class, there really is no differentation between one character and another. What I am afraid is going to happen here is that there will be one build that succeeds, and since all of the characters look alike to begin with (either male or female), it's going to be a one time trip through this game. I hope I am totally wrong about this.

2. The "hero" is generic and really doesn't change. Sure they can wear different armor, etc., but is a character that focuses mostly on magic or on distance attacks really going to have the same exact body build as a tank that hacks away at the front line?

3. The inventory. Within about two days of release I hope modders (or heck, I'll do it myself) make it much bigger. It seems smaller than Diablos AND there isn't even a stash. Three tabs worth of small doesn't help. (and I haven't even mentioned the lack of a sort button...).

I can live with the fake accents (though it makes absolutely no sense to me why it was decided to do it this way), but I'm sorry to say, I don't think TQ is going to be "the one".

IMHO, it needs: 1. A stash. 2. Character Customization. 3. to Lose the disembodied "you cannot carry anymore" voice (the fake accents are still annoying, but I guess I'll survive).

Those are 3 things that I can tangibly point to and say "I don't like them".

There is one thing that is intangible but absent in my opinion and that is "distinctiveness and personality" That means something different to everyone.

I hate to say it, but TQ feels like another Dungeon Siege to me, with a few improvements. Community effort can make a less than addictive game worth playing, but it can't fix the fact that it's "less than addictive" in the first place.

Perhaps when the full game comes out, some of the things that I feel are missing will be there. Unfortunately, though, at this juncture I fear it is probably too late.

It seems once again, this is a case of people who made fantastic RTS games making an Action RPG without 'getting' why Action RPG's are fun in the first place. It's quite surprising considering how much personality AoE had.

Maybe you could have had a Sumerian going through, a Greek going through and a Babylonian?

Anyway, I hope that the final is better. The demo entertained me for a little while, but I was back to playing something else after it was done.

-Aerows-

[Napoleon]

Originally Posted by -Aerows-

IMHO, it needs: 1. A stash. 2. Character Customization. 3. to Lose the disembodied "you cannot carry anymore" voice (the fake accents are still annoying, but I guess I'll survive).

Some strange things you hate there.

1) As said before: There are going to be 3 big bags with a lot of room. And even without them I think the inventory is big enough for most stuff. Just only pick up the stuff you need / stuff with good trading value.

2) I don't really care that much about Character Customization. Okay, its funny, but Ironlore decided that it would be better to make a game without too much preparing. Start in ½ minute. Thats a conception. But of course if you love Character Customization you might find this idea annoying.

3) Come on?!? "you cannot carry anymore"-voice . I could mention 100 things I hate more than the "you cannot carry anymore"-voice.

If you play the games for some time, you will quickly learn the names of the items. Then you don't have to pick up every item, and two of your problems are solved.

[-Aerows-]

Ah, another day fencing with Napoleon . At least it isn't over gore and blood today.

That's why I put "IMHO". Yes, there are 100 things I hate more than the "you cannot carry anymore" disembodied voice, but the fact is, I was not impressed by the demo and tried to keep my opinion limited to tangible things not intangible.

But since you think that those 3 things are strange, I'll add an even stranger one (which I think I said before, but I'll say again) - It lacks personality.

And lack of Character Customization is not a strange thing to notice, especially considering D2 got SLAMMED that all of the Amazons, Barbarians, etc. eventually ended up looking alike because everyone picked out the most sought after equipment. What do you think the consensus will be after about two times through and you can't tell one of your friends from the other because the only thing that you can differentiate with is gender?

Unless, of course, you are delighted that it follows the idea of strict egalitarianism that everyone should be no better/no different than anyone else.

Oh wait, you are Danish, aren't you ?

[Napoleon]

Originally Posted by -Aerows-

And lack of Character Customization is not a strange thing to notice, especially considering D2 got SLAMMED that all of the Amazons, Barbarians, etc. eventually ended up looking alike because everyone picked out the most sought after equipment. What do you think the consensus will be after about two times through and you can't tell one of your friends from the other because the only thing that you can differentiate with is gender?

Unless, of course, you are delighted that it follows the idea of strict egalitarianism that everyone should be no better/no different than anyone else.

Oh wait, you are Danish, aren't you ?

Yes i'm Danish, but I'm not a egalitarianist
Of the 3 reasons I also thought the lack of Character Customaization to be the most relevant.
It's true that having a unique char is nice in Multiplayer, but keep in mind that the assortment of items is hopefully bigger than D2. And hopefully not everybody is going to wear same items.
IMO it's better that Ironlore made many different skill-combinations. It's the skills, which makes your character unique, not the look .

[Majpain]

I wouldnt mind a lil bit of variety.

[J Bone]

It comes down to options. The more options you have the more people you will draw in. For me, character customization is a key element in gaming. I used to play SWG which had one of the best character customizations in a game. I believe it helps get you more involved into your character. It's what helps make you unique. I don't see how hard it would be to make several faces, hairstyles, hair colors, and skin tones. To me having no character customization would be like having TQ with there being only greek terrain in the game. Then labeling the other areas egypt and china but those areas only have greek terrain. I hope everyone understood that. Just my opinion. Who knows if this article at IGN is true maybe they have heard our plea, and are adding some features?

http://pc.ign.com/articles/707/707758p1.html

"Character customization is limited to changing hair and tunic color along with a few other basic features."

[-Aerows-]

Originally Posted by Majpain

I wouldnt mind a lil bit of variety.

Nor would I, in fact I think the game calls for it.

I could sit here and pretend that it's absolutely perfect and that I didn't see anything that would keep it from being the best game ever made, but then again, that wouldn't be expressing my opinion, which is why I again said "that's my opinion".

The game isn't horrible IMHO, and is most certainly better than many we've had shoveled at us (as gamers) lately, but it's not fantastic, either, and it seems to me as though there are a lot of features missing. Lack of character customization is kind of glaring in it's absence.

As for the inventory, as I said, three small panels of inventory is not going to help the situation. This game is screaming for a stash. In the demo, I left so much stuff laying on the ground, that I probably ended up missing something that was good, just because I didn't want to do the "town shuffle" 20 times.

And yes, I still hate the disembodied "your inventory is full" voice, probably even more so because during the course of this game I'm probably going to hear it half a thousand times. Fate destroyed that idea-it went way too far with it (You create a portal...You step into the portal...You are unable to carry anymore...Do you wish to tempt fate, do you accept your fate...blah blah blah). Had I never played Fate, it probably would have taken a little longer for it to annoy me, but unfortunately, I did and the disembodied voice (informing me of what I already know since my character pitches it in the air and doesn't pick it up) annoyed me the second I heard it in TQ.

Yet another reason to get a hold of the editor. I prefer them to just pitch it in silence than endure "the disembodied voice" syndrome. (though, I wouldn't mind my character saying "Oh boy, more crap I can't carry around with me before I feel like going back to town).

I'm probably the only person that noticed it, but now that I've mentioned it I wonder how many of you will start to have it get on your nerves too?

[Napoleon]

It's not because I will pretend like this game is perfect. I could mention a couple of things, which need doing.I just disagree with your reasons.

I passed the demo 5-7 times and yet I havn't heard the "I can't carry anymore"-sound. I havn't travelled back to town for selling crap either.

Maybe its because I'm used to play DiabloII, where you only had like 8-12 squares (because of charms).
Be more critical when you are picking up items. Don't keep items you don't need. Most of the time, it's just like: Is this item better? -
no .. then drop. (maybe keep if it have any trading value).

[-Aerows-]

Napoleon, I played the original Diablo and then Hellfire, Darkstone, D2 and LOD and just about every single Action RPG ever made with just about every type of inventory system ever thought up (ie. all the IE games that utilized encumbrance, etc.) and Sacred/UW. I *know* how to differentiate between crap and good stuff, *but* I also like to sell crap sometimes to get a better weapon. I was saving up for a higher end sword, but it's irritating to have to play inventory tetris every two minutes, especially when you have no idea what a sudis is and how much space it is going to take up.

TQ just doesn't seem finished to me. They have invested a lot of time in it, obviously, to make it a good game. It has some great concepts, but there are some things that are missing that makes me wonder what the rush is to get the game out the door.

I also a little concerned with the idea that ~V~ mentioned "We'll probably put a stash in the expansion pack." Is this going to be another Dungeon Lords where the "Collector's edition" is the game as it was supposed to be released, as opposed to the one 5 months too early that had no customization, etc?

Or maybe we'll get to pay 2 and 3 dollars a piece for "plug-ins" that should have been there to begin with?

[Hammerman]

Definately agree that lack of character customization could bring down the replay value of the game. It's silly if the only thing that separates characters from each other is their equipment.. a mage and a buff tank looking exactly the same is rather strange. Hopefully equipment looks mixed with different skin colors will be enough to make each char look unique enough, but still, the idea that essentially each character is the same (so to speak) bothers me a bit.

Also, a stash is basically a must for a game that has such a variety in items, and one of its strong points is colleting loot. Completing sets and collecting rares will become much more tedious and harder if you have to carry them around all them time (thus limiting your inventory space considerably).